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I'm a Christian who has been to one of these "Seders", and I agree with you. It is not OK.
I was taking a theological study course some years back, and since one participant was a woman who had a Jewish mother and a Christian father but who had not been raised with either religion but observed the Jewish holidays and was exploring both sides of her roots, the priest decided we would do a "Seder" modified to include some Christian stuff at the end.
I participated, but it felt wrong. They were not my words to say or hear. My people were not in bondage in Egypt. It's a fascinating spiritual story, but it belongs to the Jews and not to anyone else. I won't ever participate in something like that again.
My 2 cents.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you participating in a traditional Seder to which you’ve been invited. My concern is the bastardization and cultural appropriation by non-Jews who twist a very special ceremony to fit a completely different religious tradition.
Clearly, a "Christian seder" has no meaning in Judaism. What I find disturbing is the casual adaptation of a Jewish religious observance by those who believe that Jews and Judaism are "completed" or "perfected" through Christianity.
The only people I have ever heard say "completed" are Jewish people who have converted to Christianity and is used to describe themselves. It's not a term generally used by other Christians.
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Originally Posted by Rachel NewYork
Or, at the very least, Christians could simply continue with their Easter Sunday meal (featuring the traditional baked ham that may have originally been intended to show that the participants were not Jewish).
I like the idea of inviting people of different faiths to a seder, but I'm not keen on Christianizing the Jewish Seder.
Love the ones who serve bread at their "seders." LOL
As for the eating of lamb... We don't eat lamb at Passover because the lamb represents the Temple sacrifice, and the Temple is no more. (I believe this is why we also don't eat the lamb shank on the Seder plate.)
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Originally Posted by Richard1965
Or to deliberately offend Jews...
No, seriously, I have heard that before, but I think it's quite a stretch. I doubt very much that most Christians in history even had Jews in their thoughts or on their radar when planning Easter dinners. Ham was the traditional meal simply because most agrarian people butchered pigs and preserved the meat to get them through the winter, and since Easter by definition is an early-Spring holiday (the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox), it was available for a feast.
I am 62 years old and grew up in a devout Christian home, and nobody ever said, "We eat ham to show we're not Jews." We ate ham because it is a big-ass hunk of meat that will feed a crowd. Lamb is also traditional for Easter, but a lot of people don't like it. My mother always made both.
Jess, don’t feel too bad about buying lamb. While I certainly never had lamb at my Seders growing up, I didn’t realize until fairly recently that it’s customary to not dine on lamb during Seders—not that I generally fancy myself as a paragon of Jewish theological wisdom.
Fish is a good choice. Brisket is another favorite on American Jewish Seder dinner tables. If you’re not aware of this already, be mindful that if you’re keeping kosher, mixing fish and meat is frowned upon, even though fish is technically pareve.
I have mixed feelings on cancel culture generally, but aside from the most egregious of offenses, there should be room for redemption—otherwise, people have no incentive to change their behavior.
I had brisket so many times this week! I am not eating my parents' meal since it's not Kosher, so it'll just be fish for me!
I get paranoid about cancel culture. If people found out the things I wrote as a teenage. Yikes! I grew a lot during college and I changed a lot.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you participating in a traditional Seder to which you’ve been invited. My concern is the bastardization and cultural appropriation by non-Jews who twist a very special ceremony to fit a completely different religious tradition.
That would be different, but this was a dozen people in a Christian theological study group, one of whom was Jewish.
That would be different, but this was a dozen people in a Christian theological study group, one of whom was Jewish.
Nobody has ever invited me to a REAL Seder.
I understand the distinction. I’m just saying that as someone who has always struck me as a great friend and ally of the Jewish people, you shouldn’t be afraid to join in if you are (and hopefully will be!) invited to a real Seder. It’s generally a round robin affair where people take turns reading different sections of the Haggadah.
I understand the distinction. I’m just saying that as someone who has always struck me as a great friend and ally of the Jewish people, you shouldn’t be afraid to join in if you are (and hopefully will be!) invited to a real Seder. It’s generally a round robin affair where people take turns reading different sections of the Haggadah.
Thank you for saying that.
I am very much with whomever it was that said "if you are Jewish, be the best Jew you can be, if you are Christian, be the best Christian you can be" and so forth.
I've got a lot of work to do yet to be the best Christian I can be, so I'm not in any position to tell anyone else how to live their lives.
But a belated Chag Pesach Sameach to all our Jewish posters.
Clearly, a "Christian seder" has no meaning in Judaism. What I find disturbing is the casual adaptation of a Jewish religious observance by those who believe that Jews and Judaism are "completed" or "perfected" through Christianity.
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Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
The only people I have ever heard say "completed" are Jewish people who have converted to Christianity and is used to describe themselves. It's not a term generally used by other Christians.
Trust me, MQ, it's a term that's been used by evangelical Christians -- as well as by the evangelical Jews for Jesus movement. Ann Coulter has more infamously used the term "perfected Jew" in the expression of her belief that "we should all be Christians."
Thanks, MQ, for the Chag Pesach Sameach! You are definitely a friend and ally to the Jewish people.
Trust me, MQ, it's a term that's been used by evangelical Christians -- as well as by the evangelical Jews for Jesus movement. Ann Coulter has more infamously used the term "perfected Jew" in the expression of her belief that "we should all be Christians."
Thanks, MQ, for the Chag Pesach Sameach! You are definitely a friend and ally to the Jewish people.
Ugh, I didn't know that, probably because if I watched TV frequently and Ann Coulter came on I would switch to a nature show or something.
Trust me, MQ, it's a term that's been used by evangelical Christians -- as well as by the evangelical Jews for Jesus movement. Ann Coulter has more infamously used the term "perfected Jew" in the expression of her belief that "we should all be Christians."
Thanks, MQ, for the Chag Pesach Sameach! You are definitely a friend and ally to the Jewish people.
Yes, that is why whenever I see these articles, I don't think highly of the Christians that do this. They remind me of Ann Coulter types and ugh.
My uncle is this type. I remember one time my aunt made deviled eggs without bacon bits and he said, "We aren't Muslims here, we eat bacon!" I hate eggs, so my aunt didn't have to keep me in mind, but she did. That uncle since moved, but his uncomfortable comment never left my mind. He's Atheist, but a devout Ann Coulter and the ilk devotee.
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