KS credit rating downgraded (condo, loan, house)

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by s.davis

Since 1632 in this country.

My dad had 80 acres, not subsidized in any way.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by KC_Sleuth

Yesterday morning we tried to walk to a nearby sidewalk cafe for breakfast (I live in Overland Park)...and walked from Quivira and 109th to Black Bob and 127th.

I'm not even sure why you would even try. That is such a spread out area even for suburbia. Huge arterial streets with massive right of ways (lots of grass) and massive surface parking lots, more grass to walk around (they call it green space) and strip malls that are set back a half mile from the street. Not to mention everobody in cars stares as you if you are walking outside of a residential area wondering what's the matter with you and why you are walking around. At least drive to downtown overland park and park a few blocks from something and walk there .

Originally Posted by KC_Sleuth

Not being able to be on foot and get to cool places makes it a bit claustrophobic for us...it's like boredom by too much space.

Yep, that's me. I have always said that. Big sky suburbia makes me claustrophobic. I have a fear of being able to see everything but not being able to safely access it on foot.

[luzianne]

Originally Posted by KC_Sleuth

Eh for some people. We are moving back to the plaza...there is too much space out here. Yesterday morning we tried to walk to a nearby sidewalk cafe for breakfast (I live in Overland Park)...and walked from Quivira and 109th to Black Bob and 127th. The walk was somewhat boring (lack of window shopping/options along the way), and unfortunately the sidewalk cafe turned out to be less than stellar. Too many strip malls out here...loses a lot of charm for me. I like to be able to wake up on a Sunday at 9:00 AM, walk to breakfast, and be on foot exploring most of the day...it's a bit limiting out here for that type of lifestyle. In this area, I found out that it's not a place where you can simply ditch your car on the weekends and spend the weekend wandering through the community. I used to put 6-7 miles of walking in on a weekend when I lived in the plaza...out here I kind of feel stymied in that effort. The indian creek trail is nice, but it doesn't go by anywhere where you can stop off, people-watch, grab a drink and a cigar, etc...

Not being able to be on foot and get to cool places makes it a bit claustrophobic for us...it's like boredom by too much space.

Not me. I'd rather drive where I want to go than live so close to so many other people. When I see pictures of the streets of New York, I always wonder why anyone would want to live like that. I always wondered why JFK Jr. lived where he did. I would hate it. I'd hate the noise and the filth. I dunno - urban areas are just too grungy for me (and I'm definitely not alone). I know some people like "grit," but I don't. I don't like no grass and no trees. I don't like yucky sidewalks with trash and spit and who knows what else on them. Does not appeal to me at all.

I can see why younger people might want to live like that for a while. I can't really see anyone wanting that their whole lives. I would think the novelty would wear off after a while. It would wear off fast for me. But then, as I have said before - I lived in urban areas when I was younger because I couldn't afford to live in the suburbs. So definitely a different mindset. I wanted to ESCAPE urban living, and felt successful when I was able to do so. So going back on purpose is not something I would ever entertain. I guess a difference in generations, but I wonder if those younger will at some point decide THEY would rather have a house and yard in the suburbs - when they have kids? when they get tired of living so close to other people?

[northbound74]

Not all walkable urban areas are gritty with no trees.
Also, walkable doesn't even have to be urban. It can be well-planned suburbs and small towns that have retained their original charm.
KC is limited in this respect at least as far as desirable areas go. Brookside, North Kansas City, older parts of Lee's Summit and Overland Park are what they have, and those pale in comparison to what you'll find in other cities.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by northbound74

Not all walkable urban areas are gritty with no trees.
Also, walkable doesn't even have to be urban. It can be well-planned suburbs and small towns that have retained their original charm.
KC is limited in this respect at least as far as desirable areas go. Brookside, North Kansas City, older parts of Lee's Summit and Overland Park are what they have, and those pale in comparison to what you'll find in other cities.

I would say the vast majority of walkable areas are not gritty without trees. Even most of Manhattan is far from being gritty without trees, but most walkable areas are not anything like Manhattan. Anybody that thinks that doens't get out much. But I hear that type of thing all the time from people in suburban or rural midwest. It's the same thing as people in large coastal cities thinking that everbody in "flyover country" lives on a farm and is an ignorant bible thumping conservative, and lots of people think that too.

[TabulaRasa]

I don't get the "escape" mindset. I've loved everywhere I've ever lived, from rural farm to small town to huge city to suburbs to small city to military base. All have their pros and cons, but the pros have outweighed the cost for me everywhere I have ever called home. I've thankfulky never experienced the "I hate where I live and can't wait to escape it" brand of dissatisfaction.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

I don't get the "escape" mindset. I've loved everywhere I've ever lived, from rural farm to small town to huge city to suburbs to small city to military base. All have their pros and cons, but the pros have outweighed the cost for me everywhere I have ever called home. I've thankfulky never experienced the "I hate where I live and can't wait to escape it" brand of dissatisfaction.

That kind of dilutes your praise for KC then. I mean if you are just as happy in KC as you would be at a military base or in Amarillo, TX (just thinking of a place I would want to "escape") then you are just happy everywhere and KC is nothing special. I'm just being facetious you know.

I get the idea of making the best of where ever you live. Personally, I couldn't live in a tiny rural town and wouldn't be thrilled to live in a lot of larger cities (Oklahoma City comes to mind). I wouldn't commit suicide or anything and would make the best of it, life is too short. But if I have a choice, I'm going to try and choose a city that fits my personality as much as possible. So far the DC area is much more my style than any other place I have lived.

That doesn't mean I hated KC or St Louis or Chicago, I enjoyed them all. (St Louis would be my first choice of those three, but loved them all) I still want to live on the west coast someday (Seattle or San Diego) and would like to settle down in a city like Denver once the kids are gone. But the DC area is great right now. KC would be okay to move back to someday. I'm just not ready for the slow pace of life there again and honestly I'm not sure I ever will desire that lifestyle again (plus I feel like many cities do better with the crime, blight and suburban mentality of KC and to a lesser degree Chicago and StL). I won't want to be in DC forever. It's not a place to retire. But I could live and retire in a place like Downtown Denver.

Stick me in Topeka and I will escape though

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by luzianne

My dad had 80 acres, not subsidized in any way.

How does he get to and from there?

Does he have electricity?

Gas?

Water?

Electric?

Does he use gasoline at all?

Who comes if he calls 911?

Who protects his right to own property?

Who what prevents his upstream neighbor from dumping poison into the water, or burning their land and letting the fire sweep onto his property, or spraying their crops or pasture or woods with toxic chemicals tht blow onto his land?

Who can he turn to if somebody tresspasses/robs his house to redress his grievances?

How did he buy it? With money/bank notes/loans? Or did he barter for it?

Does he get social security?

etc.

I think you meant "not subsidized in any way that I acknowledge."

[KC_Sleuth]

Originally Posted by luzianne

I guess a difference in generations, but I wonder if those younger will at some point decide THEY would rather have a house and yard in the suburbs - when they have kids? when they get tired of living so close to other people?

Had the house and yard in the suburbs...didn't enjoy the maintenance. Sold it last year. Didn't want that lifestyle anymore. Don't want kids. There are plenty of people who decide they don't want families, or would like to raise them in the city.

Funny thing about KC is that people think that "moving on up" is moving to the suburbs. I grew up in a relatively wealthy household, and we lived in a bigger old home in a walkable, urban/city neighborhood up in the northeast...not in the suburbs. The trade-off is that we had to attend expensive private schools rather than city schools, but it was worth it to be in the neighborhoods we were in. I find in KC that the suburbs are mostly middle class. The real wealth lives in the $1M+ houses/condos on Ward or along Brush Creek.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by luzianne

Not me. I'd rather drive where I want to go than live so close to so many other people. When I see pictures of the streets of New York, I always wonder why anyone would want to live like that. I always wondered why JFK Jr. lived where he did. I would hate it. I'd hate the noise and the filth. I dunno - urban areas are just too grungy for me (and I'm definitely not alone). I know some people like "grit," but I don't. I don't like no grass and no trees. I don't like yucky sidewalks with trash and spit and who knows what else on them. Does not appeal to me at all.

I can see why younger people might want to live like that for a while. I can't really see anyone wanting that their whole lives. I would think the novelty would wear off after a while. It would wear off fast for me. But then, as I have said before - I lived in urban areas when I was younger because I couldn't afford to live in the suburbs. So definitely a different mindset. I wanted to ESCAPE urban living, and felt successful when I was able to do so. So going back on purpose is not something I would ever entertain. I guess a difference in generations, but I wonder if those younger will at some point decide THEY would rather have a house and yard in the suburbs - when they have kids? when they get tired of living so close to other people?

I certainly would say living near the Plaza would be dirty, gritty, etc. I'm in my 40s, and if I didn't have kids, I'd definitely prefer to live in a high rise condo in downtown Denver. Like the other poster above, I love to walk around and avoid driving my car. I want to talk to people, socialize, see people, and be able to walk to restaurants and bars. At least where we are now, houses are very close together and with sidewalks everywhere, I often socialize with neighbors when walking the dog. And they're building a new town center 3 blocks from our house.

I would never make it in a rural setting. I'd go INSANE!