KC's vibe - big city or small town? Or both? (Springfield: hotels, tenant)

[TabulaRasa]

It is amazing to me that the location of the stadiums keeps coming up as a huge deal. But, then, I am marginally interested in sports, at best, and where any stadiums are located is pretty immaterial to me. Yay, sure, Royals games are fun and I think Kauffman is a nice stadium and all, but I couldn't care less where it's located. And I guarantee I will live my entire life without ever setting foot inside a football stadium anywhere.

[CrownVic95]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

It is amazing to me that the location of the stadiums keeps coming up as a huge deal. But, then, I am marginally interested in sports, at best, and where any stadiums are located is pretty immaterial to me. Yay, sure, Royals games are fun and I think Kauffman is a nice stadium and all, but I couldn't care less where it's located. And I guarantee I will live my entire life without ever setting foot inside a football stadium anywhere.

That's only because you're a you're not a zealous urbanist ideologue. And that, in and of itself, warrants a +1.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by TabulaRasa

It is amazing to me that the location of the stadiums keeps coming up as a huge deal. But, then, I am marginally interested in sports, at best, and where any stadiums are located is pretty immaterial to me. Yay, sure, Royals games are fun and I think Kauffman is a nice stadium and all, but I couldn't care less where it's located. And I guarantee I will live my entire life without ever setting foot inside a football stadium anywhere.

But this is the problem. Your post is full of I, this and I that. Nothing personal, but for a community to better itself, people have to think outside of what only benefits themselves.

Compared to cities that have urban ballparks, KC has gotten almost no economic return on its investment. If you are going to publicly fund pro sports venues that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, why not place them in a location that will have a chance at creating some sort of spin off development or at least critical mass which makes a city more "vibrant" by enhancing the ability to use transit, mixed use etc.

You may have zero interest in sports and if you do, you may love the idea of a sea of available parking surrounding a stadium. But KC has really missed out by placing its stadiums so far from the city and it has slowed the ability for KCMO to redevelop itself.

If Kauffman were built in the crossroads instead of renovated, you would have seen more economic activity in the crossroads in the past five years (infill condos, hotels, restaurants etc) than what you will probably see there in two or more decades without a stadium. Streetcars and light rail would make more sense etc.

Most people just don't see this bigger picture. Kauffman is a nice park, it's okay. It's a 1970's era park with some updates. A nicer park could have been built downtown with the same look and characteristics. Outside the scoreboard and fountains, Kauffman is nothing special at all, if not still pretty dated. A stadium downtown with the skyline beyond those fountains would have been amazing and Downtown KC would be a different place today with more condos, more hotel rooms, more transit in place, more people on sidewalks and restaurants for people to go to and 20,000 to 30,000 people downtown at least 80 times a year patronizing crown center, the P&L district etc. All of this critical mass would also make KC more viable for conventions etc because there is a more concentrated location of hotels and entertainment activity in a smaller walkable area of the city. When everything is strung all over the place like KC is you won't ever get that critical mass and will struggle to compete with places like Minneapolis, Denver, Seattle etc in many ways.

What I don't get is how people don't see how much the locations of the stadiums do matter.

I'm just talking about baseball. Arrowhead is perfect where it is. If it were downtown, I wouldn't want it in the heart of downtown, maybe in the west bottoms or on the riverfront. Denver did it right. Ballpark right downtown, football stadium just across the interstate. NFL stadiums are not used enough and when they are, they overwhelm everything with traffic and parking, so they create too much dead space to be in the heart of the city, but can work on the fringes of a downtown. No reason to move arrowhead though. It's perfect.

Renovating Kauffman stadium however is one of KC's biggest urban planning blunders ever.

[Parkerlewis33]

Originally Posted by kcmo

But this is the problem. Your post is full of I, this and I that. Nothing personal, but for a community to better itself, people have to think outside of what only benefits themselves.

Compared to cities that have urban ballparks, KC has gotten almost no economic return on its investment. If you are going to publicly fund pro sports venues that cost hundreds of millions of dollars, why not place them in a location that will have a chance at creating some sort of spin off development or at least critical mass which makes a city more "vibrant" by enhancing the ability to use transit, mixed use etc.

You may have zero interest in sports and if you do, you may love the idea of a sea of available parking surrounding a stadium. But KC has really missed out by placing its stadiums so far from the city and it has slowed the ability for KCMO to redevelop itself.

If Kauffman were built in the crossroads instead of renovated, you would have seen more economic activity in the crossroads in the past five years (infill condos, hotels, restaurants etc) than what you will probably see there in two or more decades without a stadium. Streetcars and light rail would make more sense etc.

Most people just don't see this bigger picture. Kauffman is a nice park, it's okay. It's a 1970's era park with some updates. A nicer park could have been built downtown with the same look and characteristics. Outside the scoreboard and fountains, Kauffman is nothing special at all, if not still pretty dated. A stadium downtown with the skyline beyond those fountains would have been amazing and Downtown KC would be a different place today with more condos, more hotel rooms, more transit in place, more people on sidewalks and restaurants for people to go to and 20,000 to 30,000 people downtown at least 80 times a year patronizing crown center, the P&L district etc. All of this critical mass would also make KC more viable for conventions etc because there is a more concentrated location of hotels and entertainment activity in a smaller walkable area of the city. When everything is strung all over the place like KC is you won't ever get that critical mass and will struggle to compete with places like Minneapolis, Denver, Seattle etc in many ways.

What I don't get is how people don't see how much the locations of the stadiums do matter.

I'm just talking about baseball. Arrowhead is perfect where it is. If it were downtown, I wouldn't want it in the heart of downtown, maybe in the west bottoms or on the riverfront. Denver did it right. Ballpark right downtown, football stadium just across the interstate. NFL stadiums are not used enough and when they are, they overwhelm everything with traffic and parking, so they create too much dead space to be in the heart of the city, but can work on the fringes of a downtown. No reason to move arrowhead though. It's perfect.

Renovating Kauffman stadium however is one of KC's biggest urban planning blunders ever.

I agree with all your points and your proposed venue locations. The Crossroads would make a great location for a warehouse district anchored by a ballpark and mid-rise condos. It is a very similar neighborhood to Arapahoe Square/Ballpark area in Denver. I should have better clarified myself as far as Arrowhead was concerned. It would definitely need to be located on the fringes. The West Bottoms is probably the only place to locate it. There would be a unique opportunity to redevelop the entire infrastructure of the area with a new and improved American Royal facility. In addition it could spur a turnaround for Kansas City Kansas and stop this needless border war. Obviously it would require a huge investment on the part of KCK and developers on the west side of the border, but a stadium makes that investment a lot more attractive. If Kansas is going to hand out fistfulls of money for business parks in Johnson County, I would think a combination of incentives would be in order for KCK. Maybe incentive packages for a downtown business park, housing and an entertainment district all adjacent to a stadium. It would be great to see both states feeding off each others development, as apposed to stealing each others development. This could be the kind of project that turns the entire metro around with one swift move. It seems like an obvious conclusion to arrive at for me, but apparently the powers that be can't come to the same conclusion.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I like Omaha, but comparing Omaha to Kansas City is like Comparing Kansas City to Chicago

I'd say Omaha is much closer to Kansas City than kansas city is to Chicago.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by Trae713

I'd say Omaha is much closer to Kansas City than kansas city is to Chicago.

Yeah, I think Omaha and KC are peers, kind of on the outlying ends of the spectrum of cities of 1 million to 2 million.

I think Omaha is to KC ad KC is to St Louis.

[SPonteKC]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Most people just don't see this bigger picture.

Yes they do. But the people who own the stadium and the sports team do not. Not much the average citizen can do about that. Whining on the internet doesn't count.

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by s.davis

Yes they do. But the people who own the stadium and the sports team do not. Not much the average citizen can do about that. Whining on the internet doesn't count.

Wrong and wrong.

The stadium is owned by the people (Jackson County mostly, but also KCMO and Missouri tax payers). The Royals have put very little of their own money into construction or renovations of the stadium.

And the Royals asked the fans what they wanted to do with the stadium when the downtown stadium ideas were heating up and the fans overwhelmingly supported renovating vs building a new downtown stadium. At least Jackson County fans did and Jackson County leaders were also apposed to move the stadium downtown for their own economic reasons.

Had there been any interest by the community to build a downtown park, it could have easily happened.

You are the one that is always "Whining" and contributing little to these types of discussions. Try to actually discuss these topics rather than just acting immature about it because you don't like what I have to say.

And the Chicago vs KC thing was tongue in cheek, just making an exaggerated point to reply to a ridiculous post about Omaha vs KC. But whatever .

[brandthom]

But it didn't happen, it would be irresponsible to say relocating Kauffman after a major renovation. To continue to complain about it, is indeed whinning. This is also going of the assumption building a stadium downtown will 100% boosts developement. Would not the better option be to trying to secure a professional tenant for the Sprint Center and try to develop the area around Truman? Or the dreamer thought of converting some of their obnoxious amounts of parking into something?

[shindig]

There were actually quite a few people supporting a downtown ballpark that even a committee was formed to look at potential sites in the downtown area. This was all very soon after the Sprint Center rental car fee was passed by voters. It really started to gain momentun and even Glass said at one point he would listen to any and all proprosals. Shortly after that comment, Glass was interviewed and said he had received hundreds of letters from people pleading not to move the stadium. He didn't listen to the general public and media but based his decision on the small percentage that wrote to him. I think in the end, he is just cheap and didn't want to spend anymore than $25m of his own money. Both Arrowhead and Kauffman each received $225m towards their renovations. The total for the K was $250m while Arrowhead was $375m. Glass knew that in order to build a new stadium downtown, he would of had to cough up an additional $100-$150m, instead of the $25m. That's why the K is still where it is.