updated household incomes in JC & Kingsport (Knoxville, Bloomingdale: neighborhood, subdivisions)

[Rangerred]

Interesting! JC goes toe to toe with Asheville.

Given those numbers, it's strange to me the lack of development at Boones Creek and The Crossings. Seems like the area shouldn't want for a SuperTarget, Costco, etc.

I think the Boones Creek development will happen; it's only a matter of time. I do really worry about the mall's future if that development comes to fruition though. I wish the higher-end shopping would go in closer to the center of the city. If by The Crossings you are talking about the ridiculous proposed development at 81 and 26 I think and hope it is doomed to failure. Horribly outdated idea from a retail standpoint and would be much better suited for industry or a distribution business.

Regarding Costco and Super Target Asheville doesn't have those stores either. They also don't have an Apple store, Potter Barn, etc. While their retail scene is a little higher-end it will just take one development in JC to change that.

I discussed this some in the Pinnacle thread but you are beginning to see more of a separation between the JC metro and Bristol-Kingsport metro on a retail level. Many stores and restaurants are opening simultaneous locations in each. Nearly every chain store and restaurant in the Tri-Cities has at least 2 locations. In fact, an article today in the JC Press stated that the thought was the opening of the Pinnacle would cannibalize sales in JC but there has been no effect whatsoever. Johnson City is really starting to separate itself from the rest of the region demographic/economic wise and any new higher-end retail will go there and not at Tri-Cities Crossings. There is a reason the Pinnacle doesn't contain higher-end stores.

Also strange is that there aren't more amenity laden communities with $150k - $250k price points.

I've lived here for eight years and still haven't figured out the housing market. Housing is very expensive for an area that supposedly doesn't pay well. It seems like any new housing that is built is 300k+.

[jchometeam]

For what its worth, I agree that housing is overpriced overall in this area. The biggest complaint that I hear in the 150k to 250k developments are the lot sizes, not the lack of amenities. Of course, everyone has a different experience and expectations.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by Rangerred

I think the Boones Creek development will happen; it's only a matter of time. I do really worry about the mall's future if that development comes to fruition though. I wish the higher-end shopping would go in closer to the center of the city. If by The Crossings you are talking about the ridiculous proposed development at 81 and 26 I think and hope it is doomed to failure. Horribly outdated idea from a retail standpoint and would be much better suited for industry or a distribution business.

Regarding Costco and Super Target Asheville doesn't have those stores either. They also don't have an Apple store, Potter Barn, etc. While their retail scene is a little higher-end it will just take one development in JC to change that.

I discussed this some in the Pinnacle thread but you are beginning to see more of a separation between the JC metro and Bristol-Kingsport metro on a retail level. Many stores and restaurants are opening simultaneous locations in each. Nearly every chain store and restaurant in the Tri-Cities has at least 2 locations. In fact, an article today in the JC Press stated that the thought was the opening of the Pinnacle would cannibalize sales in JC but there has been no effect whatsoever. Johnson City is really starting to separate itself from the rest of the region demographic/economic wise and any new higher-end retail will go there and not at Tri-Cities Crossings. There is a reason the Pinnacle doesn't contain higher-end stores.



I've lived here for eight years and still haven't figured out the housing market. Housing is very expensive for an area that supposedly doesn't pay well. It seems like any new housing that is built is 300k+.

I think JC is also separating as the destination in the area (such that it is) and the retail hub. Still, there is a massive difference between places like JC and normal, healthy mid-sized cities that can attract a Macy's, Dillards, Costco, Super Target, etc.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by jchometeam

For what its worth, I agree that housing is overpriced overall in this area. The biggest complaint that I hear in the 150k to 250k developments are the lot sizes, not the lack of amenities. Of course, everyone has a different experience and expectations.

I spent years mowing my dad's lawn on a hill on about two acres. Push mowing required cleats and some parts of the lawn couldn't be push mowed - they required cleats and a weed-eater. The parts that could be ridden, you have to shift your rear on the mower to keep it from toppling over on the hill. While I agree a lot of people want more and that many of the area lawns are pretty to look at in the summer, mowing them and dealing with a hilly hot in the winter is a real pain.

[jabogitlu]

Still, there is a massive difference between places like JC and normal, healthy mid-sized cities that can attract a Macy's, Dillards, Costco, Super Target, etc.

You're missing the mark by comparing Johnson City to these communities. Having a Dillards etc. in your community is not a sign of a healthy town - it's a sign of a town that has been cannibalized by outside retail forces and a population who've been brainwashed by marketing to withdraw their support from local and community retailers. In my mind, I respect Johnson City a thousand times over when places like Sampson Mountain General Store or Downtown Farming open up and are supported. Who cares if Johnson City has a Costco?

I understand your basic point, that the existence of these types of stores is generally indicative of a higher level of discretionary income in a community. However, it gets really old when you harp on and on for months about basic chain stores, without at least giving some thought to the idea that this is *not* the be all/end all of a community's sense of identity, self worth, or prosperity. In fact, Northeast Tennessee is a lot like Alaska (where I live now) in that many people locate there, or remain there, precisely because that area doesn't resemble suburban Indianapolis.

[Sherrie Lynne]

I think if any more larger chain stores were here I would not like JC so much. For a small town it has a pretty good selection it seems to me. There is nothing that isn't covered by existing stores except I would love, of course, Trader Joe's.
I moved from a larger town than this and we did not have as many store choices as here and our mall was half closed. I was pleasantly surprised by our mall here. It has every store I had before and a few more. I like that there are less large chain restaurants than other places too.

Before I moved here I did a lot of visiting to other states and medium size towns. It was very noticeable and sad how some towns are still almost empty of stores and basic businesses since the economic downturn. By comparison JC is doing A-OK.

I have a couple of aunts that are professors in small college towns like JC. It doesn't jive with me about how it is intimated that Johnson City does not have a healthy economy as it's very comparable with them.

I like to say at the end of my posts that I am not business minded and I don't pay a lot of attention to statistics. I only say what I see personally in my little world.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by jabogitlu

You're missing the mark by comparing Johnson City to these communities. Having a Dillards etc. in your community is not a sign of a healthy town - it's a sign of a town that has been cannibalized by outside retail forces and a population who've been brainwashed by marketing to withdraw their support from local and community retailers. In my mind, I respect Johnson City a thousand times over when places like Sampson Mountain General Store or Downtown Farming open up and are supported. Who cares if Johnson City has a Costco?

I understand your basic point, that the existence of these types of stores is generally indicative of a higher level of discretionary income in a community. However, it gets really old when you harp on and on for months about basic chain stores, without at least giving some thought to the idea that this is *not* the be all/end all of a community's sense of identity, self worth, or prosperity. In fact, Northeast Tennessee is a lot like Alaska (where I live now) in that many people locate there, or remain there, precisely because that area doesn't resemble suburban Indianapolis.

Does a community have to have a Macy's or Dillards? Absolutely not, but I'd rather have more options than less. Obviously, if the community can attract Whole Foods and Earthfare type of stores, it's likely more affluent than a place where Priceless and salvage grocers are the stores of

What is Sampson Mountain competing with? I took a look at their Facebook and it's mostly knick-knacks and some oddball furniture. It's a niche store and I might visit once a year. It looks like a cool shop, but it's not something you'd go to frequently. Costcos and Targets are used by most of the population much more frequently than a place like Sampson. They're totally different markets.

[jabogitlu]

Sampson Mountain is in the middle of a remodel/retooling into a small community grocery. They'll be carrying items from (among others) the Mennonite bulk foods store on the 107 Hwy. With this remodel, I think its main competition will be Natural Foods Market, although some downtown residents may choose to shop there because it's a downtown foods market.

[rccrain]

Originally Posted by jchometeam

For what its worth, I agree that housing is overpriced overall in this area. The biggest complaint that I hear in the 150k to 250k developments are the lot sizes, not the lack of amenities. Of course, everyone has a different experience and expectations.

To me, a postage stamp size lot can be completely mitigated if there is a community pool, athletic courts, and open space with a playground/dog park/walking trails. Less for me to maintain, IMO.

See Falcon Creek in Franklin, TN.

[jchometeam]

Originally Posted by rccrain

To me, a postage stamp size lot can be completely mitigated if there is a community pool, athletic courts, and open space with a playground/dog park/walking trails. Less for me to maintain, IMO.

See Falcon Creek in Franklin, TN.

Absolutely. There are certainly those who want that. I am just saying that the biggest complaint that I come across is those on the other end, who want newer homes with at least a half acre to acre, in the city limits, with some mature trees (they get upset that developers strip the land clean). The availability of that type of development is very limited. For whatever reason I don't come across those wanting PUD's very often.