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Old 08-27-2010, 11:34 PM
 
170 posts, read 291,755 times
Reputation: 173

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Quote:
Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262 View Post
On the most basic level, all I am saying is that minimum wage no longer matches the cost of living today.
Sure it does. $8.25/hour over a 40 hour work week comes out to just over $17,000 a year, or $1430 a month. People in this income level generally pay no taxes and, in some instance, still get extra back, so let's just assume $1430 is take home. One could (and many do) live on that.

I'm not saying living on that kind of money would be luxurious, or even easy, but that's just the way it goes when your most valuable skill is flipping a hamburger or stocking a shelf.

A lot of the current economic trouble we're in as a nation is a direct product of so many people at the lower end of the social spectrum trying to live like the top 1%. In a capitalist society, there are always going to be people at the bottom and people at the top, with the vast majority somewhere in the middle. Not everyone can (or should) have the quintessential "American Dream," despite the best efforts of our government over the past 15-20 years to spend hundreds of billions of tax dollars trying to change that fundamental truth.

Bottom line, living reasonably on $17k a year can be (and often is) done.
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Old 08-27-2010, 11:53 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas, NV
5,737 posts, read 12,032,463 times
Reputation: 3848
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKLAS View Post
Sure it does. $8.25/hour over a 40 hour work week comes out to just over $17,000 a year, or $1430 a month. People in this income level generally pay no taxes and, in some instance, still get extra back, so let's just assume $1430 is take home. One could (and many do) live on that.

I'm not saying living on that kind of money would be luxurious, or even easy, but that's just the way it goes when your most valuable skill is flipping a hamburger or stocking a shelf.

A lot of the current economic trouble we're in as a nation is a direct product of so many people at the lower end of the social spectrum trying to live like the top 1%. In a capitalist society, there are always going to be people at the bottom and people at the top, with the vast majority somewhere in the middle. Not everyone can (or should) have the quintessential "American Dream," despite the best efforts of our government over the past 15-20 years to spend hundreds of billions of tax dollars trying to change that fundamental truth.

Bottom line, living reasonably on $17k a year can be (and often is) done.
While it can be done, it mus be done minmally (cheap apartment, paid off car with only liability, one or no credit cards at all, shoppping at al wal mart, etc). Itrs true too many folks on the lower end of the income structure have lived (and Im sure some still are) living beyond their means. Myself included, not proud of that, but I realize the error of my ways now and I will be paying the price for years to come

If I were to be getting 40 hours a week at Vons, I would be ok with my $7.25. Unfortunately that has not been the case. My hours have increased to about 30-35 but I still would like my 40. Thought I will take what I am given. Since I have been promoted to the meat department, I should be getting a raise real soon. In the mean time since I have left the courtesy clerk position, the otherr courtesy clerks are now getting 40 hrs a week and im only getting 30

I dont know why I was expecting to make a similar or even more money here than I made in Florida. I made $9.25 an hour there and usually got 40+ even though I was considered part time.

The positive side to less hours is I am not as physically stressted and exhausted as I sued to be. Sometimes hours and money are not top priority, we all need time off eventually. When I worked for Publix I was so stressed that from December 2009-Feb 2010 I got sick about 6 or 7 times, and I NEVER EVER get sick, I was either REALLY stressed out or it was just a really rough flu season

Money usually has a way or working itself out. But it's all in His time, not our own
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Old 08-28-2010, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Portland, OR / Las Vegas, NV
1,808 posts, read 3,265,788 times
Reputation: 967
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavieJ89 View Post
While it can be done, it mus be done minmally (cheap apartment, paid off car with only liability, one or no credit cards at all, shoppping at al wal mart, etc). Itrs true too many folks on the lower end of the income structure have lived (and Im sure some still are) living beyond their means. Myself included, not proud of that, but I realize the error of my ways now and I will be paying the price for years to come

If I were to be getting 40 hours a week at Vons, I would be ok with my $7.25. Unfortunately that has not been the case. My hours have increased to about 30-35 but I still would like my 40. Thought I will take what I am given. Since I have been promoted to the meat department, I should be getting a raise real soon. In the mean time since I have left the courtesy clerk position, the otherr courtesy clerks are now getting 40 hrs a week and im only getting 30

I dont know why I was expecting to make a similar or even more money here than I made in Florida. I made $9.25 an hour there and usually got 40+ even though I was considered part time.

The positive side to less hours is I am not as physically stressted and exhausted as I sued to be. Sometimes hours and money are not top priority, we all need time off eventually. When I worked for Publix I was so stressed that from December 2009-Feb 2010 I got sick about 6 or 7 times, and I NEVER EVER get sick, I was either REALLY stressed out or it was just a really rough flu season

Money usually has a way or working itself out. But it's all in His time, not our own
Hang in there Davie.
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Old 08-28-2010, 02:22 AM
 
1,347 posts, read 2,111,241 times
Reputation: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262 View Post
Walmart has eclipsed all other retailers partially by their ingenuity as well as many shady business practices that have come to light. Despite these things coming to light, most people's priorities are still with finding the lowest price. Which is what Walmart offers.
And they are able to provide the lowest prices by aggressively managing their costs, including labor. More than any other retailer they are doing their part to suppress that murder spree inducing inflation that you referred to earlier, yet you would have them raise their prices so they could pay their employees more? Maybe you could give me an idea of what a fair wage is for someone that moves my items across a scanner, places them into a bag, and retrieves shopping carts from the parking lot?
Quote:
As many people here have noted, there are many "help wanted" signs in the area for low paying jobs. Many people are more content draining unemployment as it pays better in most cases. Electrician's and plumbers make far more than minimum wage and has no relevance on what I'm saying. I am not against employers hiring people that will work for less. This is a system long held by this country. The only flip side to this is that all the jobs that can go overseas are slowly making that transition. On the most basic level, all I am saying is that minimum wage no longer matches the cost of living today. And yes, you can determine the cost of living in an area quite easily. Given it will be an average amount.
Electricians and plumbers make far more than minimum wage because they provide a service that not every Joe on the street can provide. The same can not be said for most minimum wage earners. As an individual, you have the choice as to what plumber you might use to unstop your sink based on what they want to charge you for that service. If you believe you have been quoted you too high of a price, you are free to find another plumber to provide that service for less compensation. Why shouldn't Walmart be given the same latitude within minimum wage constraints?

If all you were saying was that inflation had outpaced minimum wages, you and I wouldn't be having this discussion. I replied to your implication that paying employees minimum wage was unreasonable and that employers are screwing their employees by paying minimum wage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262
Wow, the internet is just full of people up in their ivory towers. I'm sure you would say the same face to face right? In any case, nobody really gets paid what they deserve. Only what they negotiate. Davie or anyone for that matter deserves a reasonable wage for the simple fact that it's the right thing to do. In this day and age we are still paying people well below what is needed to maintain basic costs of living. Inflation has soared past the minimum wage and we wonder why so many people suddenly snap and go on murdering sprees or develop stress related illnesses.
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Old 08-28-2010, 10:33 AM
 
399 posts, read 870,600 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKLAS View Post
Sure it does. $8.25/hour over a 40 hour work week comes out to just over $17,000 a year, or $1430 a month. People in this income level generally pay no taxes and, in some instance, still get extra back, so let's just assume $1430 is take home. One could (and many do) live on that.

I'm not saying living on that kind of money would be luxurious, or even easy, but that's just the way it goes when your most valuable skill is flipping a hamburger or stocking a shelf.

A lot of the current economic trouble we're in as a nation is a direct product of so many people at the lower end of the social spectrum trying to live like the top 1%. In a capitalist society, there are always going to be people at the bottom and people at the top, with the vast majority somewhere in the middle. Not everyone can (or should) have the quintessential "American Dream," despite the best efforts of our government over the past 15-20 years to spend hundreds of billions of tax dollars trying to change that fundamental truth.

Bottom line, living reasonably on $17k a year can be (and often is) done.
Sounds like an exaggeration. Even at $8.25 an hour, you have federal taxes and SS/Medicare etc. fees taken out of your pay. You may have unpaid time off as the employer may not provide any paid time off for sick days, holidays and vacation so you will not have 52 weeks of pay in a year. You will either have no medical and dental insurance or else the insurance premiums subtracting a big chunk from your little minimum wage take home pay.
It may be worse than that since I read they can reduce your pay below minimum wage if they even offer you insurance benefits that you still have to pay premiums towards.
Most minimum wage jobs are not full time 40 hours per week anyway, so you will need to waste time and money commuting to two different places and maybe working 6 or 7 days a week to get 40 hours.
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:27 PM
 
7,671 posts, read 11,275,729 times
Reputation: 15249
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKLAS View Post
Sure it does. $8.25/hour over a 40 hour work week comes out to just over $17,000 a year, or $1430 a month. People in this income level generally pay no taxes and, in some instance, still get extra back, so let's just assume $1430 is take home. One could (and many do) live on that.
Even assuming that there is no income tax liability, you're forgetting the OASDI & Medicare tax of 7.65% which reduces the $1430 to approximately $1320.
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Old 08-28-2010, 01:44 PM
 
170 posts, read 291,755 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdreloc View Post
Sounds like an exaggeration. Even at $8.25 an hour, you have federal taxes and SS/Medicare etc. fees taken out of your pay. You may have unpaid time off as the employer may not provide any paid time off for sick days, holidays and vacation so you will not have 52 weeks of pay in a year. You will either have no medical and dental insurance or else the insurance premiums subtracting a big chunk from your little minimum wage take home pay.
It may be worse than that since I read they can reduce your pay below minimum wage if they even offer you insurance benefits that you still have to pay premiums towards.
Most minimum wage jobs are not full time 40 hours per week anyway, so you will need to waste time and money commuting to two different places and maybe working 6 or 7 days a week to get 40 hours.
So learn a skill that someone's willing to pay you more than $8.25/hour to perform, or take a risk and try to get into business for yourself so that YOU ultimately control your destiny.

I just turned 30, own a small business, and am blessed to have what most would consider to be a fantastic income ($250k+ a year). I also took a huge risk and dropped out of college after one year (in 1999) to focus on building the business, since I felt that ultimately it would be more rewarding than the original career path I wanted to pursue. For about the first five years, as I was pouring everything into the business, there were plenty of 18 hour work days that ended with nothing but Kraft macaroni and cheese on the table since I couldn't afford anything better. Work weeks were routinely 80-100 hours. I lived well below my means, and still do, which has allowed me to avoid debt (in 12 years, my business has never had one cent of debt) and build personal savings for a rainy day.

In the end, it was worth the risk, long days and other sacrifice as now at 30 years old I'm able to live in financial peace and sleep well at night even during these tough economic times.

Only YOU can change your personal situation. Sitting around complaining that the minimum wage is too low (and this is NOT directed at Davie, but rather others in the thread who've taken it down this secondary path) and waiting for the government to do something about it isn't going to get you anywhere. We live in a society where everyone has the opportunity to make their own choices regarding the situation and their future. If you're happy living a stress-free life of walking into work, performing a menial task, and being compensated at minimum wage while making no effort to improve your skill set or marketability, then that's the path YOU have chosen.

It just burns me up when people whine about their situation as if they're being taken advantage of, or imply it's everyones else's fault but their own. If your skills were worth more, you'd be paid more. Simple as that.

(Starting salary at my place is $36k with paid health insurance and 401k with 100% match up to 5% after a year, but potentials need to know some combination of PHP, MySQL, Photoshop, Illustrator, Excel [most applicants say they do, then we find out they really don't] and knowledge of commercial aviation is a huge plus).

Last edited by ChrisKLAS; 08-28-2010 at 01:57 PM..
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:38 PM
 
2,509 posts, read 3,734,278 times
Reputation: 2180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisKLAS View Post
So learn a skill that someone's willing to pay you more than $8.25/hour to perform, or take a risk and try to get into business for yourself so that YOU ultimately control your destiny.

I just turned 30, own a small business, and am blessed to have what most would consider to be a fantastic income ($250k+ a year). I also took a huge risk and dropped out of college after one year (in 1999) to focus on building the business, since I felt that ultimately it would be more rewarding than the original career path I wanted to pursue. For about the first five years, as I was pouring everything into the business, there were plenty of 18 hour work days that ended with nothing but Kraft macaroni and cheese on the table since I couldn't afford anything better. Work weeks were routinely 80-100 hours. I lived well below my means, and still do, which has allowed me to avoid debt (in 12 years, my business has never had one cent of debt) and build personal savings for a rainy day.

In the end, it was worth the risk, long days and other sacrifice as now at 30 years old I'm able to live in financial peace and sleep well at night even during these tough economic times.

Only YOU can change your personal situation. Sitting around complaining that the minimum wage is too low (and this is NOT directed at Davie, but rather others in the thread who've taken it down this secondary path) and waiting for the government to do something about it isn't going to get you anywhere. We live in a society where everyone has the opportunity to make their own choices regarding the situation and their future. If you're happy living a stress-free life of walking into work, performing a menial task, and being compensated at minimum wage while making no effort to improve your skill set or marketability, then that's the path YOU have chosen.

It just burns me up when people whine about their situation as if they're being taken advantage of, or imply it's everyones else's fault but their own. If your skills were worth more, you'd be paid more. Simple as that.

(Starting salary at my place is $36k with paid health insurance and 401k with 100% match up to 5% after a year, but potentials need to know some combination of PHP, MySQL, Photoshop, Illustrator, Excel [most applicants say they do, then we find out they really don't] and knowledge of commercial aviation is a huge plus).
Since I'm fairly sure you're directing it at me, I don't work a minimum wage job. I was commenting on it. And not everyone working minimum wage has no brain with no other skills. The way the economy is shaping, many people are forced in one sense or another to take these jobs to survive. I'm not sure where you got the idea that minimum wage employees don't pay taxes but I've never seen that before. It is deducted straight from their paycheck. I still stand by the fact that you get what you negotiate and not what you deserve or are worth.

And I agree completely that we all have control over our own destiny but like others have said, we can't all be scientists and CEO's. These numbers that are being thrown around are still best case scenario. Most employers are hiring people at 30 or less hours to avoid paying benefits and reducing the wage to part time. Realistically, the take home is more like 1,000 or less per month. As long as everyone is fine with using nothing but automated machines and talking to robots and people from India in the future then all is good. While we're at it lets commit to never raising the minimum wage since I am sure the number of desperate people willing to take any job is probably rising. That will keep costs down nicely so you can buy your blanket made in god knows where by some kid living in filth and sold to you by someone who has to spend every waking moment of their life working to be able to have a roof over their head. Yes that person selling it to you could suck it up and better themselves to find a better job, but someone has to do it and that's the point.

Last edited by unf0rgiven6262; 08-28-2010 at 04:56 PM..
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:52 PM
 
1,589 posts, read 1,820,141 times
Reputation: 1695
Quote:
Originally Posted by unf0rgiven6262 View Post
Since I'm fairly sure you're directing it at me, I don't work a minimum wage job. I was commenting on it. And not everyone working minimum wage has no brain with no other skills. The way the economy is shaping, many people are forced in one sense or another to take these jobs to survive. I'm not sure where you got the idea that minimum wage employees don't pay taxes but I've never seen that before. I still stand by the fact that you get what you negotiate and not what you deserve or are worth.
And that negotiation is not set in stone. It is free to change at the employers whim base on economic conditions. The fewer options the employee has the more options the employer has. And they are VERY aware of this.

All this "you get what you are worth" talk used to be true. It's eroding
as the economy erodes.

Now it's the have's taking advantage of the have-not's so they will have more. Free market, I agree. Just be aware the rules are changing and it's
going to be divisive.
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Old 08-28-2010, 04:57 PM
 
10,485 posts, read 22,547,424 times
Reputation: 6611
I only make $20,000 a year and trust me, I pay a lot of taxes. Between social security, medicare and Federal I have been paying $3,000 a year. Next year, the taxes are going up even higher.
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