[Buzz123]

We are really a 22nd century city. The 21st is too slow for us. The Star Trek Experience at the Hilton was really a secret experiment of Area 51 to try and beam people back and forth, mostly between casinos, but also to Summerlin and Green Valley. It was working but it was too expensive. Beamership was low, and now it's closed. People didn't like the fact that they still had to walk a long ways from the transporter room to their homes. Probably why buses, monorails, and trains don't work in a town as spread out as Las Vegas. It's not a walking city and people from big cities crowded into small areas, like New York, Boston, San Francisco, etc., don't understand that. Look at the El in Chicago. It's double ugly. Looks trashy and ruins the looks of the city. We don't want that here─downtown looks bad enough. And can you imagine living next to that awful thing? By the way, they still beam workers to and from the Test Site, Area 51, and Yucca Mountain, but it doesn't go right to your house, so you still have to take your car from a lot along U.S. 95 north, or the Hughes Terminal at McCarran.

As an aside─ever notice how the city buses actually create more traffic problems than they solve?

[AA702]

As long as fuel is cheap, people will use their cars or trucks. A light rail system without a rail infastructure already will cost too much and no one is going to want to pay for something they are not going to use.

[lvkewlkid]

Originally Posted by kwm03160

I lived in Salt Lake up until last year. It is a great way to get to the downtown area cheaply (especially when gas was over $4 a gallon). The light rail system is heavily used and is considered a success. There was an existing rail corridor that was used for the first phase, and the 2nd phase out into the suburbs is also using an existing rail corridor (it will be interesting to see if light rail gets used out there). While I haven't lived in Vegas long, it seems like there isn't an available rail corridor that could be used. It seems like light rail would be too cost prohibitive because of this.

i'm not familiar with salt lake city, but does salt lake city actually have a functioning downtown with walkability and stores lining the streets with housing on top? maybe that's why it works...

Las Vegas is completely different, there's no reason to go downtown except to see Fremont Street, visit a lawyer, transfer buses, go to the Regional Justice Center, or go to First Friday...as you can see, not even the DMV is downtown and there's also no major department store or shopping downtown and the premium outlets are pretty much west of downtown...

[tijlover]

People fearful of building light rail here because it would attract homeless people? Well, the rate Las Vegas is going and the increasing amount of homelessness, how many of those who opposed this project are now homeless, or jobless now wish to God they had supported the project, as they watch their cars being towed away from their driveways because they can't make the payments?

I would oppose a light rail system ONLY IF they privatized the bus system here. Private enterprise would do a much better job. In my travels to Central America there is NO light rail and nothing planned in the future but I label it among the best transit systems anywhere. But American cities would never approve of that kind of mass transit, deeming it to be too ugly and third world. And we have the resources right here to make it happen, but, instead we ship all our old school buses south of the Border. I've ridden in the backs of pick-ups down there, and those fun, exciting "chicken buses" and rarely do you have to wait but a few minutes and you're off to your next destination, just hop on and a fare collector collects your money en route. Unlike this country, you don't need to be at a bus stop, you merely wave your hand and they stop for you, you want them to stop, just say Stop, and they stop, it might even be in front of your house. Lots of big pick-ups on our streets here, and with a few alterations, transformed into transit vehicles. And so much fun! Riding in the back of a pick-up on one of our hot days here at 45MPH, with the wind buffeting your body--what a rush! I've ridden them all over Central America, what a treat!

Let's see some of the inventory now:

Phoenix-20 miles of track (including a stop at the Airport)
Tampa, FL--starter track of 2.3 miles
Buffalo, NY-6.4 miles
Denver, CO-35 miles of track
Sacramento, CA-37 miles
Minneapolis-12 miles (another line underway to St. Paul)
Charlotte, NC-9.6 miles
Little Rock, AK-2.5 miles
Houston, TX--8 miles
Dallas, TX-45 miles
St. Louis, MO-46 miles
San Diego, CA-53.5 miles
Salt Lake City-19 miles (more lines planned)
Pittsburg, PA-25 miles
Austin, TX-32 miles of track to be opened 3/30/09
Norfolk, VA-light rail system under construction

Did the taxi companies try, in each of these cities, to halt their construction?

Come on Las Vegas! Let's join the stampede! ON WITH THE SHOW!!!!

[olecapt]

Your mixing apples and oranges. In Central and South America perhaps two thirds or more of the populaiton regularly rides the bus. Here it does not get to ten percent.

Jitneys might work on some routes but the difficulty is the diffused location of virtually everything. There really is no center other than the strip.

Any light rail will have to be of the park and ride sort. Even express busses will have that problem. So you need large parking areas to get to the transport system.

I too believe they screwed up the monorail. It needed to go to the airport and come down the middle of Las Vegas Blvd. But that is water over the dam. Without easy access to the strip hotels I am not even sure that extending it to the airport would be economically workable.

Other places have cab companies but not like the ones in Las Vegas. Ever notice how we do not have the airport shuttles of virtually everywhere else? Think the powerful cab companies might have a role?

I would think the future of the modern SW cities like Vegas lie in small and efficient automobiles. Maybe a high flex jitney thing ala paratrans for all. But we will have only very limited opportunities for mass transit...rail or bus.

[dr.gomonas]

Originally Posted by AA702

Honestly the way Las Vegas is set up.. you cannot get people out of their cars. Maybe some people, but a car is still part of the Southwest culture. I do not think it will work for a city such as LV.

I totally agree with you. I recently moved here from Georgia (near Atlanta) and have taken MARTA (ATL's metro system) a few times to the airport. It is completely underused because it of poor planning/design/infrastructure... It's sort of a backbone through the city (running N-S), but it doesn't reach out to very many parts of town. Thus if you live in the inner city and want to go to another part of the inner city, you're set. Otherwise you have to drive and park to use it or take a bus. It's great for avoiding airport traffic and parking, but that's about it. (It doesn't even go to Turner Field where the Braves play!!!) I think they made the same bad bet LV made with its Monorail --it's so expensive, we're only going to put in a minimum amount of track and see if people use it, instead of betting big and really trying to make it useful. Then you end up with something that cost a ton of $$ but people don't use it.

Plus people here really seem to like their cars. And when you can park almost anywhere for free? Forget about it.

Personally I would love to see it, and would love the taxes I don't pay to support it, but I'm sure that's not going to happen.

[RandalR]

The only rail that will draw enough passengers to be self-sustaining is a subway system running from the airport out to the Strip at Mandalay Bay, then straight north underneath the Strip all the way to Downtown, with major stations every mile that have exits directly into the casinos.

But a project like that would make Boston's Big Dig look like the picture of frugality. Every crooked contractor and government official in the Western states would be lined up to get a piece of the action. Anybody got $100 billion in spare change?

[MomMom]

Originally Posted by RandalR

The only rail that will draw enough passengers to be self-sustaining is a subway system running from the airport out to the Strip at Mandalay Bay, then straight north underneath the Strip all the way to Downtown, with major stations every mile that have exits directly into the casinos.

But a project like that would make Boston's Big Dig look like the picture of frugality. Every crooked contractor and government official in the Western states would be lined up to get a piece of the action. Anybody got $100 billion in spare change?

Ummm..no, and I ain't gonna start paying State Income Taxes to fund this thing either..

I'll keep my car, thank you. I personally would oppose a rail system, Las Vegas is way overbuilt as it is and a rail system would never be able to serve all its residents well enough to justify its expense.

I agree with Randal, for the tourists, a rail system linking McCarran to the Strip and downtown would be a good idea...maybe made more feasible when/if the additional airport is built out at Ivanpah...

Ivanpah Valley Airport Brief

[Chest Rockwell]

After living in Seattle for a few months, I grossly overestimated Las Vegas' traffic problems. Here, a 45 minute commute is pretty standard. In Las Vegas, only the nightmare commutes from one corner of town to another are that long. Also, the abundance of free parking in every part of Las Vegas makes driving the best option. Only when the city fills in to the point where there are no places to park and when the commutes are so long that people feel the need to move closer to work will an advanced public transit make sense.

Be patient. Las Vegas is still an infant as far as cities go and has many changes in store for it. I don't think a light rail is out of the question. It's just not feasible right now. Until then, bring on the Mob Museum!

[olecapt]

Originally Posted by Chest Rockwell

After living in Seattle for a few months, I grossly overestimated Las Vegas' traffic problems. Here, a 45 minute commute is pretty standard. In Las Vegas, only the nightmare commutes from one corner of town to another are that long. Also, the abundance of free parking in every part of Las Vegas makes driving the best option. Only when the city fills in to the point where there are no places to park and when the commutes are so long that people feel the need to move closer to work will an advanced public transit make sense.

Be patient. Las Vegas is still an infant as far as cities go and has many changes in store for it. I don't think a light rail is out of the question. It's just not feasible right now. Until then, bring on the Mob Museum!

Welcome to wisdom...we got our from 18 years in Los Angeles...and we had a good commute.

I think though it never happens. Las Vegas runs out of other things before they run out of land. Water and need I think. The density never approaches the level it takes to support real mass transit.

I wish in fact that Las Vegas could take this opportunity to slow and limit growth. For the moment the teeth have been pulled from the growth machine...it would be neat if we cut them a bit before they start chewing again.