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Well I've made my argument on the basis of absolute principle, and I don't think there's much more we can say on that.
No, we don't really agree on much!
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Originally Posted by George & Bill
Sometimes pragmatics can outweigh ideals, but much of the practical argument you've made doesn't stack up.
No, it all makes total sense to me!
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Originally Posted by George & Bill
The NHS is funded via taxes that are applied to various forms of economic activity, such as earning or spending money. The more money is earnt and spent, the more tax can be collected, and the more money for (among other things), the NHS. Economic activity is not something that exists independently, 'in its own right'. It is the outcome of human activity - humans making and selling things, offering and and buying services, and so on. By and large, the more humans you have around, the more economic activity - buying and selling - will take place.
So more people = more money(?), that's a good thing... Right? Ah, not for the NHS though...
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Originally Posted by George & Bill
The lack of space is very real in some cities, most notably London - but in many others, vast areas of urban land have lain derelict for years. This makes me think that the lack of space for playing is not really because of too many people (of course we'd fill up eventually, but you only have to take a train through Britain to see that most of it is still thinly populated), but rather down to poor planning and industrial policies that have caused overpopulation around certain service-sector hubs, while depopulating manufacturing towns.
Well derelict areas are obviously a city concern, this is ultimately the governments fault! But the countryside is much more at risk, than your poxie excuse to try and say otherwise!
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Originally Posted by George & Bill
As for queuing, the same argument applies as for government services. The amount of time you have to queue is not down to the absolute number of people in the queue, but the ratio between that number and the number of people that are servicing it. Take a supermarket: if there are ten people queuing and one person serving (a ratio of 10:1), it will take longer to be served than if there were 100 people queuing but 20 people serving (a ratio of 5:1). Since the number of people employed in businesses like supermarkets depends on the amount of customers they have, more people in the queue should also mean more people serving - and if it doesn't, blame the supermarket for trying to cut costs (or thank them, if you're happy to wait longer in exchange for lower prices), but don't look at the immigrant next to you in the queue, because their presence is not, logically, increasing your wait in any way.
No. That's true, but there are plenty of British people already in this country that can secure these jobs above!
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Originally Posted by George & Bill
Ai, hope you will see that these arguments you have made - which I feel you are making in good faith - are based on misconceptions. On other points - like the legalisation of all drugs - I firmly agree with you!
I obviously agree with you on drugs! But I can't agree with you on Immigration, sorry bud, we come from a world apart obviously x
I think it's up to the business owner to decide, not the Government!..
so businesses in the US are still allowed to smoke on their premises.... nowhere here now including works vehicles are allowed smoking...and rightly so....
so businesses in the US are still allowed to smoke on their premises.... nowhere here now including works vehicles are allowed smoking...and rightly so....
I think if someone wants to smoke in their lorry or van then let them... The government shouldn't control everyone! As I said earlier as well, I think one should be allowed to smoke in pubs, or at least in some sort of smoking area within the pub (Restaurants should have this to, but in a room separated from children)... I also think pubs should sell cannabis and magic mushrooms - just like a certain Amsterdam...
But now I think of it, places like Restaurants (in family and anti-smoking people areas), cafes, shops, offices and various other work areas, yes, smoking should be banned (changed my mind on this idea a little...).
I think if someone wants to smoke in their lorry or van then let them... The government shouldn't control everyone! As I said earlier as well, I think one should be allowed to smoke in pubs, or at least in some sort of smoking area within the pub (Restaurants should have this to, but in a room separated from children)... I also think pubs should sell cannabis and magic mushrooms - just like a certain Amsterdam...
But now I think of it, places like Restaurants (in family and anti-smoking people areas), cafes, shops, offices and various other work areas, yes, smoking should be banned (changed my mind on this idea a little...).
Ok Jas now think of this.. what if a non smoker has to use that works van after the smoker... its not right or fair,the smell sticks to the interior of the cabin and its very hard to remove it... its very unhealthy.. I was brought up with smokers in my house and it clings to curtains, clothes,hair and can be seen on pantwork, its disgusting... Apart from that its selfish and very unhealthy to children and passive smokers..and just to add to this debate... think about other things full of chemcals just like cigarettes, not regulated properly and sold daily to millions.. Perfume, every bit as bad as cigarettes and the public know nothing... have a read. http://allnaturalbeauty.us/chemicals...s_jrussell.htm I have suffered from chemical sensitivites for fifty years now , it goes untreated by doctors and causes many serious symptoms.. and our governments should be warning the public in the same way as cigarettes..not just perfumes but household cleaners too
Last edited by dizzybint; 08-30-2014 at 03:41 AM..
Ok Jas now think of this.. what if a non smoker has to use that works van after the smoker... its not right or fair,the smell sticks to the interior of the cabin and its very hard to remove it... its very unhealthy.. I was brought up with smokers in my house and it clings to curtains, clothes,hair and can be seen on pantwork, its disgusting... Apart from that its selfish and very unhealthy to children and passive smokers..
Yea you make a good point. As a result I change my mind on the lorry/van thing (unless you own it...). Yes it's a dirty habit, but it should be expected in pubs! I come from a non-smoking family, I'm a social smoker (Seriously, I only smoke around with others...), My Dad - slightly against me smoking - said that a pub hasn't been like a pub in 7 years since the ban came in. No, if the pub landlord allows people to smoke, then what's the problem? A pub should be a place where one can let their hair down and relax. If you don't like smoking then don't go in a pub!
Perfume, every bit as bad as cigarettes and the public know nothing... have a read. Chemical Sensitivities And Perfumes I have suffered from chemical sensitivites for fifty years now , it goes untreated by doctors and causes many serious symptoms.. and our governments should be warning the public in the same way as cigarettes..not just perfumes but household cleaners too
Interesting! At least people know that cigarettes are harmful... But most people don't know about how harmful perfume is! I agree, people should know about this!
So more people = more money(?), that's a good thing... Right? Ah, not for the NHS though...
Well derelict areas are obviously a city concern, this is ultimately the governments fault! But the countryside is much more at risk, than your poxie excuse to try and say otherwise!
No. That's true, but there are plenty of British people already in this country that can secure these jobs above!
I obviously agree with you on drugs! But I can't agree with you on Immigration, sorry bud, we come from a world apart obviously x
You're missing the fundamental point that economics, jobs, and public services are not, as they say 'a zero sum game' - they're not commodities we have a fixed amount of that will be used up faster the more people who have around to use them, but things that are created by human activity, that we have the ability to create more of the more people we have around.
I'm not asking you to be in favour of migration - but you'd be better off choosing better arguments. For example, migration can entail a lot of stress both for the migrant and for the community into which he/she is arriving - both have to deal with a lot of change, which can be very difficult for a lot of people. Some might argue that both would be better served by a global economic system in which jobs and opportunities are spread more equally across all parts of the world, rather than being heavily concentrated in certain regions. As I've said previously, I believe in everyone's fundamental right of freedom of movement, and I also enjoy living in a diverse community, but that certainly doesn't mean I support a system in which people are routinely forced to wander the surface of the globe in search of work.
You're missing the fundamental point that economics, jobs, and public services are not, as they say 'a zero sum game' - they're not commodities we have a fixed amount of that will be used up faster the more people who have around to use them, but things that are created by human activity, that we have the ability to create more of the more people we have around.
I'm not asking you to be in favour of migration - but you'd be better off choosing better arguments. For example, migration can entail a lot of stress both for the migrant and for the community into which he/she is arriving - both have to deal with a lot of change, which can be very difficult for a lot of people. Some might argue that both would be better served by a global economic system in which jobs and opportunities are spread more equally across all parts of the world, rather than being heavily concentrated in certain regions. As I've said previously, I believe in everyone's fundamental right of freedom of movement, and I also enjoy living in a diverse community, but that certainly doesn't mean I support a system in which people are routinely forced to wander the surface of the globe in search of work.
Fairs, Your world does sound good in theory, but can't see a global economic system happening in practice any time soon. Guess we have to agree to disagree.
On that note, I do like living in a diverse country as well with different cultures, foods and variety. But mass immigration can't go on if we want to keep the countryside and the NHS, sorry but that's the truth. Though in an ideal world, I do like your idea, but just don't think it can work...
Fairs, Your world does sound good in theory, but can't see a global economic system happening in practice any time soon. Guess we have to agree to disagree.
On that note, I do like living in a diverse country as well with different cultures, foods and variety. But mass immigration can't go on if we want to keep the countryside and the NHS, sorry but that's the truth. Though in an ideal world, I do like your idea, but just don't think it can work...
OK, let's break this down. Please can you explain to me how you think immigration harms the NHS?
OK, let's break this down. Please can you explain to me how you think immigration harms the NHS?
1. It all adds to the NHS bills, the NHS has to pay more and more to cater for the increasing population.
2. The NHS isn't prepared for a fast increasing population
3. The Government can't afford to keep up with an ever increasing population, this means more cuts have to be made in order to allow the immigrants to use the NHS, after a while the government will have to make the drastic decision to privatise the NHS as they and the tax payer can't afford it.
Think of the NHS as a ship, if a ship is top heavy then it will sink. This will happen to the NHS because it cant keep up with the demands of a massively growing population...
What makes you believe the NHS won't struggle with mass immigration?
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