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LI Bus is owned by Nassau county not the MTA. It is run by the MTA for the county.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman
You're making stuff up. 20%?! What garbage John. More ludicrous than when you just called Mangano a racist for privatizing a system that 9 out of 10 of us DO NOT USE. We, in Nassau County, just paid $100 Million in MTA payroll tax last year... how much of that did you pay?
Stop saying "Mangano doesn't want to pay for it". It's you, the riders, that don't want to pay for it. Taxpayers pay 70% of your fares. Why does it have to be taxpayers that shoulder the burden, why not the actual people that use the service -- the riders pay for it? or at least pay for half of it? ....How greedy can people be.
sean, go to seethroughny.net . Select the Public Authority category. Select MTA for 2009, sort by highest pay.... here's one of the hundreds of abuse examples I found:
Metropolitan Transportation Authority Long Island RR Usher Annual $63,359 $155,986
2x base wasn't enough for that usher, he had to go for 2.5x base or $156 grand + $40 grand in benefits, like a lot of the people on the top 10 pages do. Some go as high as 3x base. Unreal, combine that with the fat pensions and benefits, half the MTA is making a $quarter million+ a year and we are paying for it big time. This isn't entirely about LI Bus.
LI Bus is owned by Nassau county not the MTA. It is run by the MTA for the county.
We know this sabbat; We don't like the operator taking advantage of us..so we're finding a new one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
Thank you for posting the link to that post.
If we are getting a whole lot of nothing out of the MTA Tax here on LI, how can we get out of it? When is NYC going to pay their fair share?
The MTA has really screwed us royally and they should have been using that extra $100M towards LI Bus.
I agree. They shouldn't be taking that $100M in the first place. Town of Huntington brought them to court over the unconstitutional MTA tax. Nassau has its own lawsuit in court right now as well. I believe Huntington's case was thrown out over some BS. Supposedly they went about it wrong. Levy stayed away because he believed the private sector should be bringing it to the MTA, instead of gov'ts. Levy Says MTA Payroll Tax Makes Clear that MTA Business Model is
This is what's happening from this MTA tax; that most people don't see because they don't pay it directly:
..."Meanwhile, Zere said there has been an exodus of businesses due to the damaging MTA payroll tax. “We are losing people and families,” she said. “Two business clients who had to pay over $73,000 in MTA payroll taxes have picked up and moved to Pennsylvania. The MTA payroll tax is causing Long Island businesses to make a quiet exit from New York State.”
We need to stop doing business with wasteful public authorities like this. John has a good idea below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johninwestbury
There is another idea, and that is having Long Island's own TA, the Long Island Transportation Authority to run the buses and the LIRR.
I do agree we pay alot of taxes that wind up going toward the city, which is why we may be better off breaking away from the MTA and forming "LITA".
Perhaps we could get better service by taking all the money we currently send to the MTA to run our own services.
Absolutely, sounds like a great idea! Start fresh, $45k-$65k a year salaries with 15% allowance above-base for OT, benefits and 401k/403b plans. We would save hundreds of $millions and it would help LI's cause with all the lawsuits in court right now against the illegal MTA payroll tax. Question though: I'm assuming the LITA would take over all LIRR operations up to Jamaica? How is that going to work?
We know this sabbat; We don't like the operator taking advantage of us..so we're finding a new one.
I agree. They shouldn't be taking that $100M in the first place. Town of Huntington brought them to court over the unconstitutional MTA tax. Nassau has its own lawsuit in court right now as well. I believe Huntington's case was thrown out over some BS. Supposedly they went about it wrong. Levy stayed away because he believed the private sector should be bringing it to the MTA, instead of gov'ts. Levy Says MTA Payroll Tax Makes Clear that MTA Business Model is
This is what's happening from this MTA tax; that most people don't see because they don't pay it directly:
..."Meanwhile, Zere said there has been an exodus of businesses due to the damaging MTA payroll tax. “We are losing people and families,” she said. “Two business clients who had to pay over $73,000 in MTA payroll taxes have picked up and moved to Pennsylvania. The MTA payroll tax is causing Long Island businesses to make a quiet exit from New York State.”
We need to stop doing business with wasteful public authorities like this. John has a good idea below.
Absolutely, sounds like a great idea! Start fresh, $45k-$65k a year salaries with 15% allowance above-base for OT, benefits and 401k/403b plans. We would save hundreds of $millions and it would help LI's cause with all the lawsuits in court right now against the illegal MTA payroll tax. Question though: I'm assuming the LITA would take over all LIRR operations up to Jamaica? How is that going to work?
LITA would take over all LIRR operations into NYC. This may cost a considerable amount as the MTA probably wont give up the trackage in NYC easily. But as far as Penn MTA doesn't own anything there, it's all Amtrak.
Basically the MTA would be relegated to becoming more or less an NYCTA, which is sort of what they deserve with their city centric thinking.
The NYCTA (former MTA) would run city buses and subways with LITA running LIRR and bus.
The MTA probably wants to hold onto Metro-North, which it has always historically treated better than the LIRR.
LITA would be an excellent tool for defeating the payroll tax, which I agree with you on, since it unfairly benefits NYC while offering virtually nothing for LI'ers.
Also LITA would use a contact-less RFID payment system similar to Paypass on bus and RR. No paper tickets or collectors, everything would be automated (and would save huge amounts of $$). It'd be great to have a smart-card that could be used on the bus and train, perhaps with an unlimited flat rate, to encourage bus to RR use.
Only the bus has to be profitable directly off its users.
The bridge tolls don't have to reflect the true cost of upkeep.
Neither do any of the commuter railroads, especially the ones that serve wealthy upper middle class clientele. Notice how in the last couple of fare hikes the Connecticut riders of MetroNorth didn't have to pay ONE PENNY EXTRA because their governor said "no fare hikes" for them! Nevermind everyone else in the MTA system had to pay more!
Neither do the express buses whizzing to and fro.
Neither do commuter ferries. They should all be free like Staten Island's!
Nor does anything within the 5 boroughs. MTA will pay ANYTHING towards NYC.
Because everybody in NYC pays additional fees and taxes that go to the MTA. Most tolls on NYC bridges are paid by NYC residents and are used to subsidize the transit system.
In addition, there are some routes operated by the MTA that make a profit. The Manhattan crosstown routes are very cheap to operate, but there is effectively no fare paid because many riders are transferring from the subway. However, the Manhattan north-south routes probably do make a profit, since they cost around $1.30-$1.50 per person to operate, and most people probably pay close to the $2.25 fare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman
Unless they are buying gasoline and paying gas taxes, those without cars are probably not paying much into roads. I totally understand the benefits of a public system; it's the fraud and abuse by the MTA that people are peeved with. Like the $845 Million the MTA spent on lavish prime HQ in downtown manhattan, $600 Million in unchecked Overtime, $20 Million on an employee lounge in GCStation, $7 Million on a special dog-house in Dutchess county, and all the fat cat waste listed here- http://www.city-data.com/forum/18314395-post3.html
The whole point I'm making is this could be done a LOT cheaper! Look at the example seanx4 found with Hamptons Road Transit -- a similar sized operation to LI bus that is run at 40% (Salary component) of the wasteful LI Bus budget. The greed is out of control. The new MTA payroll tax went too far and is just another nail in the coffin of LI if they don't abolish it.
LIBus, I'm almost certain, only gets ~30% of its revenues from riders. The other 70% comes from Nassau County, MTA subsidy, NYS subsidy. 54% comes from dedicated taxes like the tax on our cell phone bills, vehicle reg., drivers license, payroll tax / MCTMT, the sales taxes we pay everyday, etc. Riders are getting a huge discount paying only $2.25 fares.
The Bridge & Tunnels are hugely profitable for the MTA. The guy in that vid did a study that the amount of income earned off of B&T's is enough to pay to rebuild brand new ones every 4.7 years. That $13 we pay to cross the Verrazano is going towards fat $10k/month pensions for the MTA elite, not towards any 'real' upkeep of the B&Ts. NY is not supposed to be paying "Public Authorities" when they mismanage/waste and run deficits. The PAs are supposed to be self-sufficient (according to NYS law). This isn't a school or other public benefit like Interlude was trying to make it out to be. The MTA has morphed into more of a greedy monopolistic corporation, that somehow has the power to take money directly from our paychecks. But they're slick about it..they don't put it all on one tax bill, instead the MTA takes via 8 or so different sources.
LI Bus (overall) makes about 55% of its operating costs back. As far as total costs (the costs of maintaining the depots, etc), it makes back around 30%.
However, some routes some close to breaking even as far as operating costs are concerned. The N40/N41 make a slight profit, and the N6 comes close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman
24hr I am not sure, but taking a quick look at their routes they do have many that run every 30 minutes during rush hours; HRT is cheaper to ride too, and most likely a real 30 minutes -- not 50 minutes (20 minutes late), where you can beat the bus walking in many cases like erratic LI Bus.
You can attest to the shoddy performance of LIBS, I remember someone making a video where they beat the bus to greenvale?
LI Bus has more routes running on 30 minute headways, and has routes that run more frequent than that. The most frequent Suffolk County route is the S1, on 15 minute rush hour headways. The S92 is close, at 20 minute headways.
By comparison, the N40/N41 run every 15-20 minutes each, the N6 runs every 10 minutes (with the limited running every 10 minutes as well), and the N4 runs every 8 minutes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
How much of the revenue does the LIRR and MetroNorth commuters and the MTA subways and buses get from the riders?
LI Bus is on the ropes and everyone is screaming for the riders to pay the most, yet it's okay for the commuters on the 4 types of mass transit above to get most of their funding from our tax dollars.
We pay much more. Our system makes back 50% of our total costs, whereas LI Bus makes back around 30%. Our services require fewer subsidies, and the tolls motorists pay reduce the amount of subsidies required even more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottzilla
I just saw a bus with one passenger. Having busses in Suffolk County is a dumb waste of money. This is suburbia and everyone knows public transportation (In it's current form) just doesn't work in suburbia. But keep throwing money at it.
I say good riddance.
There are a few routes out in Suffolk County with decent ridership, like the S1 and S92.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johninwestbury
I'd be willing to wager it's more like 20%, and nearly 50% in towns like Westbury and Hempstead.
In addition a great deal of New Hyde Park and Herricks residents use the N22 and N24 to the subway instead of taking the LIRR.
No it isn't. In Hempstead, only 8% of workers use a bus to commute.
Of course, there are people who use the bus to get to the LIRR, but the fact is that the majority of all people in LI don't use public transportation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdawg8181
10,000 more cars? No one uses the buses anyway. NYC and LI are 2 different places. NYC's residents are almost 100% reliable on public transit. With the exception of the LIRR, public transit (ie buses) really isn't needed here...so why should we have to keep paying for them?
Certain routes have high ridership that rivals the ridership of some NYC routes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
One thing I disagree with here is how come LI Bus riders are demonized for getting more subsidies than fares paid but the other transit systems around here (LIRR, MetroNorth, MTA subways and buses, Staten Island Ferry, etc.) are not?
Even your example of the "usher" for the LIRR (good term BTW) wasn't a LI Bus driver. What do the LI Bus drivers get? I doubt it's like that. As a matter of fact, for the last several years, any ads for LI Bus always said the jobs were "part time with benefits" so are the LI Bus drivers getting massive overtime on top of that? It sounds like their hiring system (part time) was set up not to have much overtime, if any at all.
If the LI Bus riders don't deserve subsidies, then why should anyone else? Even if, as was pointed out, there are MORE riders of the much larger transit systems like LIRR, etc., that only means MORE money for the taxpayers to have to chip in. Either everyone matters or nobody does. If LI Bus riders don't matter, than neither should the other mass transit commuters. Why should we pay more taxes for them but not for LI Bus?
It is because the other counties have a funding system in place, whereas Nassau County doesn't.
In any case, like I said, Nassau riders require more subsidies than NYC riders.
Actually, that part is true. The proposed service reductions would've affected 15,000 of LI Bus' 100,000 daily riders (I think it is 50,000 daily riders making 2 trips per day).
Some of those riders could be riders transferring between buses, so that number could be reduced even further (It is technically one trip on 2 seperate buses)
Actually, that part is true. The proposed service reductions would've affected 15,000 of LI Bus' 100,000 daily riders (I think it is 50,000 daily riders making 2 trips per day).
Some of those riders could be riders transferring between buses, so that number could be reduced even further (It is technically one trip on 2 seperate buses)
True, but it's misleading saying 100k. How many of the 50k are from Nassau? 40k tops? We're talking 1 in 30, 3% of the population in Nassau.
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From what I remember, most of the riders on Long Island's buses pay very little toward their ride. Students and the disabled get vouchers and they make up the majority of the customers. At least that's how it was in Suffolk. Probably the only people who pay full fare are the immigrants so no one should complain when they are on the buses.
That is how it is here in California, too. More than likely , buses will have to really reduce their routes or close down all together.
Public transportation is just a community service, I guess, like libraries , street cleaning , parks and schools .
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