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Really? Nothing has changed since the 80s? Most of the train fleet was replaced in 2000s. Not to mention the infrastructure improvements you don't see. East Side Access is underway and is the largest public works project ever and the East River tunnels are undergoing complete renovations.
Meh, the new trains are nice, but why does it still take an express train ~52 minutes to go from Massapequa Park to Penn, which is ~30 miles? For that matter, why does a local making all stops between MP and Penn only take 8 minutes longer than the express?
If they really made infrastructure improvements, why do all trains (execpt 1 line) have to slow down to get through Jamacia?
Last edited by Redd Jedd; 01-31-2013 at 02:56 PM..
Meh, the new trains are nice, but why does it still take an express train ~52 minutes to go from Massapequa Park to Penn, which is ~30 miles?
Are you a five-year-old?, because that's something my kindergardener would ask me.
It takes longer because you live in a heavily populated urban area. You have to share with others. Your train has to stop to pick up other passengers. Your train has to contend with the other train traffic required to move 283,415 people daily.
It takes me 30 minutes to drive to midtown with no traffic. It takes me about 1.5-2 hours to make the same trip in rush hour. It would be lovely if I had my own private LIE. It would be equally lovely to have my own private train that ran direct to Penn. Unfortunately, you and I have to share with others. Kindergarten lessons.
Quote:
For that matter, why does a local making all stops between MP and Penn only take 8 minutes longer than the express?
I would assume it's because not stopping at all the local stops saves 8 minutes off the trip?
If they really made infrastructure improvements, why do all trains (execpt 1 line) have to slow down to get through Jamacia?[/quote]
Because they all travel through Jamaica. Its a central hub of the system.
Are you a five-year-old?, because that's something my kindergardener would ask me.
It takes longer because you live in a heavily populated urban area. You have to share with others. Your train has to stop to pick up other passengers. Your train has to contend with the other train traffic required to move 283,415 people daily.
It takes me 30 minutes to drive to midtown with no traffic. It takes me about 1.5-2 hours to make the same trip in rush hour. It would be lovely if I had my own private LIE. It would be equally lovely to have my own private train that ran direct to Penn. Unfortunately, you and I have to share with others. Kindergarten lessons.
I would assume it's because not stopping at all the local stops saves 8 minutes off the trip?
If they really made infrastructure improvements, why do all trains (execpt 1 line) have to slow down to get through Jamacia?
Because they all travel through Jamaica. Its a central hub of the system.
Hey, look who's at it again! With all of the answers again!
Truth be told, it takes 52 mins to go 30 miles on an express, because infrastructure in and around the city as well as on LI is third rate. The Jamaica bottleneck has existed since the beginning of time. And it shows no sign of ever improving.
You, my hostile little friend, seem to think because we have all of this population density, it is what is and those of us who would like improvement for our sizable expense are just cry-babies. Your viewpoint and those who share the "what are you goin' to do, it's Long Island?...." perspective, is one reason why things will not change. Until the riders realize just what a raw deal they're getting (I think they probably suspect) nothing will change.
I know, I know, East-Side Access will cut 40 mins from your commute. Good for you.
Are you a five-year-old?, because that's something my kindergardener would ask me.
It takes longer because you live in a heavily populated urban area. You have to share with others. Your train has to stop to pick up other passengers. Your train has to contend with the other train traffic required to move 283,415 people daily.
It takes me 30 minutes to drive to midtown with no traffic. It takes me about 1.5-2 hours to make the same trip in rush hour. It would be lovely if I had my own private LIE. It would be equally lovely to have my own private train that ran direct to Penn. Unfortunately, you and I have to share with others. Kindergarten lessons.
I would assume it's because not stopping at all the local stops saves 8 minutes off the trip?
If they really made infrastructure improvements, why do all trains (execpt 1 line) have to slow down to get through Jamacia?
Because they all travel through Jamaica. Its a central hub of the system.[/quote]
Logic is not your strong suit, huh?
Baiscally, what Bubba said.
But going back to what you said, if the LIRR made all of these infrastructure upgrades, how come the time it takes to get from a suburban station to Penn has not changed in decades? How come Jamacia is still a bottleneck in the "hub"? How about building a bypass?
Also, someone logic skills would postulate if the train has to make 9 stops instead of 2, the express would be a little more than 8 minute faster than the local.
Lastly, we've already established that the difference between the local and the express is 8 minutes. Your poor attempt at comparing rush hour on the LIRR and the LIE is apples and oranges.
Let me know when your logic ability graduates from the kindergarden level.
Whoever it was that thinks the LIRR is very slow, you would be correct. From only 50 miles away it takes 1 hour 20 minutes from Ronkonkoma to Penn and I think it can be as much as 1 hour 30 off peak. To go 50 miles in 1 hour 20 (typical Ronkonkoma to NYC time) the train averages 37 MPH. To go 50 miles in 1 hour 30 minutes (easily possible on some off-hours) it averages 33 MPH. To get from Ronkonkoma to the very Queens border (only 30 miles) is about 50 minutes which is 36 MPH. Now I know what you will say...it has to speed up and slow down constantly, so that's why the average is so low. Duh. But, there is no reason why a place like Ronk can't get more expresses. By express I mean Ronk to Penn with stops at only Jamaica and Penn. Have the train go 80 MPH to Jamaica and guess what? You get in Jamaica in about 30 minutes. I just calculated it and it actually would only have to average 70 MPH to get from Ronk to Jamaica in 30 min basically LIE speeds. So that's 30 minutes to Jamaica and about 45 minutes to Penn. THIS is what it should take in 2013. Don't get the idea that Ronkonkoma is "far out" either...it's 15 minutes from the Nassau border with no traffic if you are in the left lane. Distance wise Ronkonkoma is damn close to the Queens border and still pretty close to Manhattan, but time wise it feels longer because of traffic and 30 MPH trains.
I was watching a show recently about the Beatles taking a train somewhere for a concert...say it took 1 hour to get to NYC. When someone read one of their diaries on the show he said it was impossible because it takes 30 minutes longer now to go the same distance. He was wrong. Apparently, trains got places much quicker back in the day with less congestion and less stops. America's mass transportation infrastructure is moving backwards not forward. For those of you who say East Side Access will save you 45 minutes...I dare you to tell me how. If you save 45 min on the subway or walking or both, that doesn't make the actual LIRR commute any faster. I just drove to exit 25 on the LIE from exit 61 and it took me 40 minutes with no traffic. If I took the LIRR the same distance, it would easily take about 1 hour 10 minutes.
Much of it is personal taste... people can't pretend to know how you'll feel about depending on the LIRR to get to and from work. Because that is what it essentially comes down to - the railroad. and I'll save you some time if you don't want to read on... they SUCK. Period. It's easy when you have no kids or your kids are very young. First few years were kinda fun. The ride has certain social bonding elements to it. Like we're all in this together type of thing. Get to know people - play cards - work - read - sleep (my personal fav - unless of course it's a "punch day" and you get the "EXCUSE ME SIR" from a drooling dreamworld - boy I wish I could melt people with my eyes sometimes)... you tend to ride the same car each day so you do get to "know" the regulars. head nod - yo... It's not really bad on the average day.
It's pretty good for a while and as you get older... and your kids get older, you start to see things differently - or at least I did. You want to be home for such and such "thing"... or just to have a catch with your son. I mean I left the house when it was dark, shouldn't I be able to get home before dark? Then you start talking to yourself... Like how does George get in his car every day at the station after 8 beers from an ice filled garbage bag and not kill somebody? Why is there always a "pedestrian incident" when you REALLY need to get home? Why did this idiot new engineer overshoot the platform and the doors are opening 3 feet to my right - essentially damning me to stand the whole ride when I was here waiting on the platform 10min before all these other arse clowns? Lights are on, train is short... MOVE! Announcement - was that a TRACK CHANGE?! Seriously, this car has no heat or AC again? Is that puke on the seat? Great, the only open seat is next to the smelly fat guy... It gets old... especially when you realize that the non-average days happen a little bit too often.
Shorter the commute the greater QoL IMO... but again YMMV. You'll have to try it and find out for yourself.
Much of it is personal taste... people can't pretend to know how you'll feel about depending on the LIRR to get to and from work. Because that is what it essentially comes down to - the railroad. and I'll save you some time if you don't want to read on... they SUCK. Period. It's easy when you have no kids or your kids are very young. First few years were kinda fun. The ride has certain social bonding elements to it. Like we're all in this together type of thing. Get to know people - play cards - work - read - sleep (my personal fav - unless of course it's a "punch day" and you get the "EXCUSE ME SIR" from a drooling dreamworld - boy I wish I could melt people with my eyes sometimes)... you tend to ride the same car each day so you do get to "know" the regulars. head nod - yo... It's not really bad on the average day.
It's pretty good for a while and as you get older... and your kids get older, you start to see things differently - or at least I did. You want to be home for such and such "thing"... or just to have a catch with your son. I mean I left the house when it was dark, shouldn't I be able to get home before dark? Then you start talking to yourself... Like how does George get in his car every day at the station after 8 beers from an ice filled garbage bag and not kill somebody? Why is there always a "pedestrian incident" when you REALLY need to get home? Why did this idiot new engineer overshoot the platform and the doors are opening 3 feet to my right - essentially damning me to stand the whole ride when I was here waiting on the platform 10min before all these other arse clowns? Lights are on, train is short... MOVE! Announcement - was that a TRACK CHANGE?! Seriously, this car has no heat or AC again? Is that puke on the seat? Great, the only open seat is next to the smelly fat guy... It gets old... especially when you realize that the non-average days happen a little bit too often.
Shorter the commute the greater QoL IMO... but again YMMV. You'll have to try it and find out for yourself.
I couldn't have said it any better, so I won't. Kudos on a great post, I think, capturing the situation just as it is.
I couldn't have said it any better, so I won't. Kudos on a great post, I think, capturing the situation just as it is.
I also agree, and I think it's much more doable when you are young and eager to work in NYC. I know people who used to commute from Nassau and Suffolk into the WTC everyday for years, but when they got older they said "enough". NYC has that whole "I can do anything" attitude and it's a place for young dreamers looking for an opportunity. That's why it's so attractive to work in. There is also the perception that you "made it" if you work in the city. I'll admit I was ignorant to this...I used to assume that if you worked in Manhattan for a business, you must be loaded. Not so...I went on job interviews in the city that turned out to be for $25k and some that were only commission based. Needless to say I turned the offers down. Something about working in the city adds prestige though even if it's just a facade. It just seems to be a status symbol and great conversation piece. When I was returning from my job interview near Wall St. for the commission only job, I walked off the subway and a homeless black man looks me up and down and goes, "I need a job like this man! What are you a lawyer?". It made me laugh because little did he know I just interviewed for a job that paid so little I would probably be no better off than him lol.
Much of it is personal taste... people can't pretend to know how you'll feel about depending on the LIRR to get to and from work. Because that is what it essentially comes down to - the railroad. and I'll save you some time if you don't want to read on... they SUCK. Period. It's easy when you have no kids or your kids are very young. First few years were kinda fun. The ride has certain social bonding elements to it. Like we're all in this together type of thing. Get to know people - play cards - work - read - sleep (my personal fav - unless of course it's a "punch day" and you get the "EXCUSE ME SIR" from a drooling dreamworld - boy I wish I could melt people with my eyes sometimes)... you tend to ride the same car each day so you do get to "know" the regulars. head nod - yo... It's not really bad on the average day.
It's pretty good for a while and as you get older... and your kids get older, you start to see things differently - or at least I did. You want to be home for such and such "thing"... or just to have a catch with your son. I mean I left the house when it was dark, shouldn't I be able to get home before dark? Then you start talking to yourself... Like how does George get in his car every day at the station after 8 beers from an ice filled garbage bag and not kill somebody? Why is there always a "pedestrian incident" when you REALLY need to get home? Why did this idiot new engineer overshoot the platform and the doors are opening 3 feet to my right - essentially damning me to stand the whole ride when I was here waiting on the platform 10min before all these other arse clowns? Lights are on, train is short... MOVE! Announcement - was that a TRACK CHANGE?! Seriously, this car has no heat or AC again? Is that puke on the seat? Great, the only open seat is next to the smelly fat guy... It gets old... especially when you realize that the non-average days happen a little bit too often.
Shorter the commute the greater QoL IMO... but again YMMV. You'll have to try it and find out for yourself.
Well said. Reality is that your kids and wife will enjoy the pool and big house and yard all week while you work and commute and then vacuum and repair stuff on the weekend. Your kids would rather have you around more. Just my 2 cents.
Whoever it was that thinks the LIRR is very slow, you would be correct. From only 50 miles away it takes 1 hour 20 minutes from Ronkonkoma to Penn and I think it can be as much as 1 hour 30 off peak. To go 50 miles in 1 hour 20 (typical Ronkonkoma to NYC time) the train averages 37 MPH. To go 50 miles in 1 hour 30 minutes (easily possible on some off-hours) it averages 33 MPH. To get from Ronkonkoma to the very Queens border (only 30 miles) is about 50 minutes which is 36 MPH. Now I know what you will say...it has to speed up and slow down constantly, so that's why the average is so low. Duh. But, there is no reason why a place like Ronk can't get more expresses. By express I mean Ronk to Penn with stops at only Jamaica and Penn. Have the train go 80 MPH to Jamaica and guess what? You get in Jamaica in about 30 minutes. I just calculated it and it actually would only have to average 70 MPH to get from Ronk to Jamaica in 30 min basically LIE speeds. So that's 30 minutes to Jamaica and about 45 minutes to Penn. THIS is what it should take in 2013. Don't get the idea that Ronkonkoma is "far out" either...it's 15 minutes from the Nassau border with no traffic if you are in the left lane. Distance wise Ronkonkoma is damn close to the Queens border and still pretty close to Manhattan, but time wise it feels longer because of traffic and 30 MPH trains.
I was watching a show recently about the Beatles taking a train somewhere for a concert...say it took 1 hour to get to NYC. When someone read one of their diaries on the show he said it was impossible because it takes 30 minutes longer now to go the same distance. He was wrong. Apparently, trains got places much quicker back in the day with less congestion and less stops. America's mass transportation infrastructure is moving backwards not forward. For those of you who say East Side Access will save you 45 minutes...I dare you to tell me how. If you save 45 min on the subway or walking or both, that doesn't make the actual LIRR commute any faster. I just drove to exit 25 on the LIE from exit 61 and it took me 40 minutes with no traffic. If I took the LIRR the same distance, it would easily take about 1 hour 10 minutes.
I don't think anyone (including the LIRR/MTA) is claiming that East Side Access will shave 45 minutes off anyones trip from LI to Manhattan. It will be a HUGE timesaver for many (most?) LIRR commuters though. Unless you work within walking distance of Penn you still have to transfer to the subway. That's most commuters. Those who work on the East Side have faced a time consuming circuitous route for more than 100 years.
There is no direct eastbound subway from Penn (as there is at Grand Central), so those who are commuting to the East have to walk or take the 1/2/3 to 42nd or 14th street. Many have to then make a 3rd transfer to the overburdened 4/5/6 line (which is constantly delayed and unpleasant due to overcrowding). Adding LIRR service to Grand Central solves this problem for hundreds of thousands of LIRR commuters. Adding the 2nd Ave subway not only provides more convenient commutes for LIRR riders but also takes the burden off the Lex Ave line. Additionally, those who think population increases don't add to added delays need to use their brains a bit more. More population means more trains using the system and more people getting on and off at each stop.
I remember the 80s, and I can tell you that service has improved dramatically since then, from the cleanliness and comfort of the trains to, more trains hourly, to, yes, on-time performance. Some people need to accept that things go wrong regularly on system as complex as the LIRR. Most of the adults I commute with daily seem to understand this. Nobody likes being delayed, but its a fact of life if you are relying on commuter trains anywhere.
To the OP, many in this thread are demonstrating a classic and childish Long Island attitude/stereotype , "if it doesn't help me, it's stupid." I don't see how anyone can deny that East Side Access is a major improvement to the LIRR/MTA system. I find that most commuters deal with the commute and don't have the level of animosity towards the LIRR (and Long Island/NYC in general). IMO, the biggest complainers are usually people that won't be content anywhere and/or those who are struggling financially and/or personally.
I personally enjoy the commute. I live being in the city and I love the instant calm and relaxation that hits me when I step off the train at Cold Spring Harbor in the evening.
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