2 California cities voters embrace pension cuts (New York, Union: schools, wages, taxes)
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what is jf ranting about?
Listen, I'm all for honoring current contracts. No need for pensions for new employees though.
You think those positions will go unfilled with the benefits of local commuting, paid vacations well in excess of private industry numbers, low-level of layoffs, etc etc. Plenty of qualified people will jump at that. The current pensions model does not work going forward, many people get that now. New plan needed going forward.
People do want the quality, thats what they are prepared to pay for locally. Paying someone a pension for a job they used to do - not relevant to quality, and no longer possible on the local taxpayer basis.
"Remember that envy is one of the seven deadly sins."
What about anger? - that'll give you a heart attack.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jf13624
Here we go again. Wha, wah "the teachers make so much money", Wah, Wah "the police make so much money". Great idea that municipalities shouldn't honor their labor contracts. What if your mortgage company decided not to honor the contract and tripled your mortgage rate. How would you like that. You all are like sheep. You totally believe all the misinformation and half truths that the state run media spoon feed you. Stop being so envious of those that pursued a career that gives them some security upon retirement. You all had the opportunity to do these jobs but chose not to. Try paying a teacher 30k a year and see how your children turn out. Try paying a cop 30k a year and watch the criminals take over. You say positions should be eliminated but then it will be Wha Wha my street didn't get plowed, wha wha the park is full of garbage and the grass is overgrown. You can't have it both ways. You want the quality of life that long island provides but you don't want to pay for it. Try taking your car in for service and not pay for it, see how that works out. The govt. spends way more on entitlements for people that contribute nothing to society than the cost of pensions for people who have worked their whole life. Instead of asking why does he get a pension?, maybe you should be asking how come I don't get a pension?. I guess no one will be happy until we all work for minimum wage, that will really make things great. Remember that envy is one of the seven deadly sins.
And whats the difference between that and someones taxes going up to pay for the bloat in public service positions/benefits ???
I just add on thing. Please remember there is a huge difference between private unions, who because of "free trade" are often fighting for their workers against third world International competition and public employee unions who are taking advantage and subvert our democratic system. These public unions are highly organized and use their power to gain advantages and access for themselves that most other citizens cannot get.
Another school board meeting on here with the locals up in arms about how much they hate the agreements that have been made 60 years ago.
Tier 6 is far more draconian then these huge ballooned pensions you see on websites.
The pension idea is -not- generally fiscally sound, but it's part of the package. Taxpayers will subsidize the public servants. Initially it was a heavy subsidy (Tiers 1-4), now much lighter (Tiers 5-6).
I still believe there is purpose to Public Employee Unions- with them out of the way before you know it you will see classrooms of 60 kids, with far less certified teachers to go around. I imagine the first thing NYPD would do is remove the 2nd cop from many patrol cars... unions look out for its employees, and in turn those employees should be looking out for the general public.
I don't mind paying a lot of money if I'm getting quality services- but for terrible workers with agencies whose union protects gross mismanagement and low performance, that's quite a bother.
Another school board meeting on here with the locals up in arms about how much they hate the agreements that have been made 60 years ago.
Tier 6 is far more draconian then these huge ballooned pensions you see on websites.
The pension idea is -not- generally fiscally sound, but it's part of the package. Taxpayers will subsidize the public servants. Initially it was a heavy subsidy (Tiers 1-4), now much lighter (Tiers 5-6).
I still believe there is purpose to Public Employee Unions- with them out of the way before you know it you will see classrooms of 60 kids, with far less certified teachers to go around. I imagine the first thing NYPD would do is remove the 2nd cop from many patrol cars... unions look out for its employees, and in turn those employees should be looking out for the general public.
I don't mind paying a lot of money if I'm getting quality services- but for terrible workers with agencies whose union protects gross mismanagement and low performance, that's quite a bother.
Class room sizes are increasing due to lack of funds to cover salary and benefits, I am all for fair salary and benefits but right now it's pretty obvious why education is being sacrificed. The school boards should be determining class sizes, not the union. If the residents don't like the way a school is being run, elect a new board. The first priority of any union is their members.
"Try paying a teacher 30k a year and see how your children turn out. Try paying a cop 30k a year and watch the criminals take over.."
So you are saying that police officers and teachers get in it for the money and the benefits, not to help children become learned members of society or to protect and serve people of their jurisdiction? That to me seems like a bit of a problem. The teacher who is willing to teach for 30k with a masters sounds like someone who is deadicated to their chosen profession and its end goal, please tell me how that is a bad thing?
That being said I dont beleive that anyone is arguing against a fair wage, the problem lies in the excessive wage and full benefits, its one or the other. the taxpayer should not be expected to support both.
That being said I dont beleive that anyone is arguing against a fair wage, the problem lies in the excessive wage and full benefits, its one or the other. the taxpayer should not be expected to support both.
And who decides what is a fair wage and what is excessive. The unions collectively bargain with the employer to gain the best for their members and why is that wrong. Is it wrong because they may earn more than you. No. Is it wrong that they have a better benefits package than ypu. No. Is it wrong that they receive more vacation that you. No. If salary and benefits and retirement are such a heavy burden than negotiate the term differently when its time for a new contract. To me its strong arm tactics to threaten to lay people off if the unions don't renegotiate the terms of a BINDING labor contract, as many of the school districts as well as New York State have done. If the employer is prepared to cut wages, benefits and retirements to the bone be prepared to lose that service through a strike. Certain employees do not have the ability to strike due to the Taylor Law. So many people speak knowing the facts (standard practice on this forum) regarding this Law. This law affects only municipal union employees, basically police, fire, teachers and transit workers. This law imposes a two day fine for every day of a strike. So a 5 day strike would cost every striking member 15 days pay.(5 days of no pay for the strike days plus 10 days of fines). This law was drawnup to protect the public and make sure these vital services were not interrupted. To protect these workers that could no longer strike ,the Taylor Law includes the Triborough amendment. This section basically says that the terms of an expired contract continue in force until a new contract is worked out. It stops the employer from taking everything away from the employee and then failing to negotiate a new contract. Unions have become the easy target of blame to cover up for fiscal mismanagement and entitlement spending by all levels of govt. To cut the legs out from under the unions will have disastrous effects in the long run. I hope all of you will seek out the real facts concerning this matter before you form such strong opinions, and not just accept the opinions that the media tells you to have. Good Luck, I'm done trying to get my point across.
Another school board meeting on here with the locals up in arms about how much they hate the agreements that have been made 60 years ago.
Tier 6 is far more draconian then these huge ballooned pensions you see on websites.
The pension idea is -not- generally fiscally sound, but it's part of the package. Taxpayers will subsidize the public servants. Initially it was a heavy subsidy (Tiers 1-4), now much lighter (Tiers 5-6).
I still believe there is purpose to Public Employee Unions- with them out of the way before you know it you will see classrooms of 60 kids, with far less certified teachers to go around. I imagine the first thing NYPD would do is remove the 2nd cop from many patrol cars... unions look out for its employees, and in turn those employees should be looking out for the general public.
I don't mind paying a lot of money if I'm getting quality services- but for terrible workers with agencies whose union protects gross mismanagement and low performance, that's quite a bother.
Biggest crock of the day....after that last hyperbolic blast of BS of course:
Class sizes would GO DOWN!. Enrollments are dropping like flies. The condensing of classes is due to lack of $ to maintain staffing due to [let's all say this together out loud now) 1. PENSION payments 2. STEP AND UNION RAISES COMBINED 3. last but not least...UNFUNDED MANDATES.
Even with a ZERO change in budget line items for a given year, TAX LEVIES MUST RISE due to 1 and 2 above!!! PERIOD. Has nothing to do with education, services, productivity, activities...nada, zip, zilch. The increase is just to feed the beast.
Spout all the BS you want. It has nothing to do with envy. THIS SHEEP knows a kindergarden teacher SHOULD NOT make $125k plus stellar benefits for working 180 days/yr and an admin should not be making more than the President of the US and the head of ALL the NYC schools in the real world. It's (here, look up this word....UNSUSTAINABLE)!!!
Contractual robbery is still robbery. I didn't sign off on that crud and I didn't vote for the corrupt dimwit who did.
Last edited by mongoose65; 06-08-2012 at 11:47 AM..
Why cant you people learn? Our taxes are so high because of our small school districts. The ONLY way our taxes will go down is if school disctricts combine. Some states have school districts as big as counties.
Untill all long island residents vote for cvombine distrcits taxes will not go down.
Why cant you people learn? Our taxes are so high because of our small school districts. The ONLY way our taxes will go down is if school disctricts combine. Some states have school districts as big as counties.
Untill all long island residents vote for cvombine distrcits taxes will not go down.
Red herring.
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