Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If it's a fee, call it a fee and put it on the HUD and let people look for a title company that doesn't charge it, or try to negotitate with the title company over the fee. I'm going to be buying a place a in LI soon and if someone expects to get money from me at the closing, it better be on the HUD so there's a record of it.
If it's a fee, call it a fee and put it on the HUD and let people look for a title company that doesn't charge it, or try to negotitate with the title company over the fee. I'm going to be buying a place a in LI soon and if someone expects to get money from me at the closing, it better be on the HUD so there's a record of it.
Title closers get their compensation from the title company they are working for. Or are you going to try and make people believe that title closers go work at closings for free, all in the hopes of getting a "tip" or "optional fee?" Sure!
You are an independent contractor and a salesperson who works on commission. Of course your compensation is not considered optional or why would you be working as a real estate salesperson? Your compensation is fully documented and fully accountable to income tax (annual 1099 form) in your transactions, unlike the title closer "fee," which is completely fishy.
In the case of Fmwjuly, when she asked for the "fee" to be included in the official documentation, they refused to do so. What other LEGITIMATE fee at a closing has to have no documentation? The reason they wouldn't give documentation is because the title closer "fee" is just a little bit of tax-free extortion at the closing. People on this thread have stated they didn't give the title closer a "fee" or "tip" ... and nothing happened to them! If this were a legit cost, the closing would not have gone on with the refusal to pay the "tip" or "fee." So why didn't anything happen if they refused to tip?
People have also stated that their attorneys paid the title closer the "tip" or "fee." I think it's just real estate attorneys trying to pass their desire to "tip" the title closer and keep in his/her good graces off on the consumers. If attorneys want to tip, they can go ahead and make that business expense. The consumers don't have to absorb that business cost for the attorney. The attorney's fees for his/her services should be enough.
I agree that it should be stated as a fee and fully disclosed.
Title companies pay closers less then they would otherwise have to if the closer did not often get extra compensation from the consumer. It's kind of like why restaurants are able to pay such low wages to waiters - they know that most (not all) people will tip them. It's not "extortion". That's a little over the top, don't you think?
When it comes to fees, there are much more egrarious ones out there. Did you know that, in many cases, the seller's attorney has an interest in the title company that he is using? Did you know that, by law, you can use whatever title company you want, but most attorneys never inform you of this because they are making money by you using their title company?
And, don't get me started on "junk" fees from your mortgage lender. They charge a miriad of little fees that, frankly, are for no other reason than that they can get away with it.
Title closers are the most visible, but that hundred bucks pales in comparison with how the others can pick your pocket.
When it comes to fees, there are much more egrarious ones out there. Did you know that, in many cases, the seller's attorney has an interest in the title company that he is using? Did you know that, by law, you can use whatever title company you want, but most attorneys never inform you of this because they are making money by you using their title company?
.
i heard about this little scam. it kinda disgust me there are little dirty secrets like that out there.
Can you verify there are few title companies to choose from out there? My attny one time claimed that.
TomMoser: i do appreciate your candid responses here.
Ive paid one when I was a young buck, was actually suckered into it. The second time buying I said no and my attorney looked at me like a deer in head lights. I think he ended up giving up the $$. I know I wasn't doing it.
Our attorney must have taken care of the tip because it was never mentioned to us. If it had, then I would have been very tempted to inquire why the title company couldn't pay wages to their people when they were making thousands of dollars on the transaction.
I've closed on houses in other places and NY is the absolute worst. The closing costs here are outrageous. It isn't the mortgage company - they charge about the same no matter where you are. It is the lawyers, the documentation fees, the deed tax (I forget what it was called) and the registration fees. It costs 50 bucks to register a deed in other places, here you can end up paying hundreds just to register the deed with the clerk. In my other closings, the only closing costs for the buyers were the small registration fee, mortgage and title insurance.
Our attorney must have taken care of the tip because it was never mentioned to us. If it had, then I would have been very tempted to inquire why the title company couldn't pay wages to their people when they were making thousands of dollars on the transaction.
I've closed on houses in other places and NY is the absolute worst. The closing costs here are outrageous. It isn't the mortgage company - they charge about the same no matter where you are. It is the lawyers, the documentation fees, the deed tax (I forget what it was called) and the registration fees. It costs 50 bucks to register a deed in other places, here you can end up paying hundreds just to register the deed with the clerk. In my other closings, the only closing costs for the buyers were the small registration fee, mortgage and title insurance.
The lawyers have everything set up in New York that it is law that you cannot buy or sell a house without using them and that they get an unfair personal advantage in the real estate business.
They have it so crooked around here that they (attorneys) can get a real estate broker license WITHOUT: first having experience as a real estate salesperson, taking the class or taking the test like everyone else in New York State has to. It takes awhile for regular people to become real estate brokers and it takes experience as a licensed salesperson and a certain number of sales before you can even think about taking a class or sitting for the broker test. Those brokers EARN their right to be called a broker. The attorneys? Total end run around all of the requirements.
So if you're dealing with a real estate broker who is also an attorney, watch out because s/he got to be a broker as a total newbie who never sold anything, took classes, or sat for either the real estate salesperson license (which license you have to have first before trying to be a broker) or broker tests like all the other real estate brokers had to. You're better off dealing with a non-attorney real estate broker. And don't let anyone fool you with the "but I'm a real estate attorney so I know more than the brokers from becoming an attorney." When they graduate law school, they are an attorney and that's it. There are no special divisions in law school for people who want to be a real estate transaction attorney versus any other kind. You can graduate law school wet behind the ears and pass your bar exam and the next day become a real estate broker. As long as you are a current member of the New York State bar you are exempt from both the educational and experience requirements.
In other states, like Florida, the real estate industry people can take care of the sale. Here? OH NO! We must have an attorney! And NYS must give attorneys an unfair Real Estate Broker License too that they didn't work for, study for, or take a test in.
As I believe I stated way back in this thread, it really should be called a fee and not a "tip". That way, it would be fully disclosed and would not be considered discresionary by the buyer who is being provided with the service.
The bank doesn't make payment of their thousands of dollars in fees optional (and believe me there are lots of really questionable ones thrown in there), nor do the attorneys. It should not be optional when it comes to the title closer.
As a real estate agent, I certainly do not consider my fee optional. I have had situations where the attorneys have tried to chisel me down at closing and I've told them in no uncertain terms that I would rather see the deal not close then for me not to get paid.
In the greater scheme of things, it seems that people do not so much object to paying fees as they object to paying when they know they are not required to.
As an aside, the acronym TIP comes from the phrase "To Insure Promptness". I understand that people used to tip waiters before the start of a meal rather then at the end. I once decided to try this out when we were hosting a business dinner at an upscale restaurant. It worked like a charm. Best service we ever received!
It's really a totally idiotic policy.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
