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I've read past posts on this board, so I know the general consensus is how horrible LI is. But I was hoping to get different points of view on my particular situation. We are facing a big life decision and I feel like we are in too deep to be objective, so what better way to inform life decisions than to ask a group of anonymous internet strangers.
My husband has recently become miserable in his job, to the point that he is looking for another job. I feel we would be doing ourselves a disservice if we focused solely on jobs in the NYC metro area and should at least consider relocating. Some relevant facts are:
- Husband makes about $250k per year, but works long days and has an hour commute each way, so on weekdays he is gone from 8a-9p. With the $250k annual income, we are comfortable, but not well off. I do not work, we have a young child that I stay home and care for. If he leaves this job, he still needs to make at least $175k a year for us to keep the house and meet our bills, this is without any extra spending by us. Very few legal jobs pay that and do not require you to turn your life over to them.
-My husband and I both have the same advanced degree, a law degree. I've not practiced for a couple of years, so me getting a job in NY is almost impossible because of all the unemployed attorneys, but my degree is from a top 20 school and in certain geographies is as good as Harvard (sadly, I'm not exaggerating).
-The geography which my degree holds the most weight is in the South, which is where I am from. And I'm talking true south, not Charlotte or any places where there are lots of NYers, but like southern Tennessee south, where people think my husband talks funny.
-Although I will likely have decent luck getting a job, I'm not so optimistic about my husband. His degree is from a school in NY and the type of law he practices is largely concentrated in NY. I would be perfectly happy with him staying home with our kid, he'd be better as a stay at home parent anyway.
-Neither my husband nor I have family here. Although my husband is born and raised on LI, his parents moved away when they retired bc living here was too expensive. All of my family (siblings, cousins etc) are concentrated within a 50 mile area in Tennessee.
-Even with my husband's salary, we aren't living the good life. Our mortgage/taxes are $4100 a month for a house that still needs a lot of work, and we both have large amounts of student loan debt and are far away from paying it off. If we moved, we would be able to do income based repayment, but student loans would still be a huge issue and we would likely take longer to pay them off because of reduced income.
-If we moved to the small town I am from, we would be able to buy a 2700 sq ft plus house on a golf course with plenty of property for less than $350k. But we would be living in a VERY VERY small town, with not much going on at all. If we moved to a larger city, we would be looking at about $400-$450k house but the taxes would be MUCH lower than on LI.
-We bought our home about 3 years ago. If we were to sell it now, we would likely make enough to pay off our mortgage, but that's it, meaning that we would "lose" the downpayment money, and the improvements we have made in the house (such as new appliances, a new marble bathroom, refinishing the floors, painting etc). We absolutely love this house and our neighborhood. The thought of selling upsets us both, even if we were going to make a profit. We had plans for this to be our forever home and it's really hard to think of letting it go. It is in a very desired area though and for the most part houses here sell in less than 3 months.
-With one or two exceptions, schools aren't great in TN. If we moved to the small town, they would be mediocre after elementary school and there aren't any private schools. If we moved to Nashville, the public schools are good in one area, which is where we would buy, but the homes are still $400-$450k, and that's not much less than our current home.
-We are Catholic. There is one Catholic church in the small town area we are considering. Most people in that area are some form of Baptist or other religion that thinks Catholics are going to hell (and I'm not exaggerating).
So we are weighing three choices: (1) stay here and keep doing what we're doing and hope it gets easier as we get older and get debt paid down. (2) move to Nashville and I would take a job in house at a corporation or with one of the larger law firms down there or (3) move to Small Town Tennessee and open our own firm.
What would you do and what would be the factors in making that decision?
If you got this far, thank you! I appreciate any insight!
Last edited by SouthernBound?; 03-26-2013 at 06:51 AM..
Reason: add info about current house
Honestly, I think you are obsessed with a certain kind of housing. I find it hard to believe that in TN you can't find a nice house for less than $400K. If you trade one $400K house for another you're kind of just going from the frying pan into the fire. You don't need anywhere close to a 2700 sq foot house right now. I have 3 big kids and live in a 2900 sq foot house and it's almost too big. Yes, the taxes make a difference, but why not downsize - that's the biggest chunk of your budget no matter where you live and you don't seem willing to "give" on that.
IMHO moving does not solve all your problems. If you are struggling, no matter where you live,you have to sit down and look at your finances and make some hard choices and decisions. I know people here (NC) who sold houses up north to "get out from under" and then came down here and bought a $700K house and can't afford to register their luxury SUVs. I mean, really?!
So if you choose to move, just make sure you aren't just going to have the same problems in a different location.
How long have you been out of BIGLAW? Unfortunately if you had played the game for a few more years before quitting and having the kiddo, those student loans would be knocked out and you'd have more options.
Honestly, I think you are obsessed with a certain kind of housing. I find it hard to believe that in TN you can't find a nice house for less than $400K. If you trade one $400K house for another you're kind of just going from the frying pan into the fire. You don't need anywhere close to a 2700 sq foot house right now. I have 3 big kids and live in a 2900 sq foot house and it's almost too big. Yes, the taxes make a difference, but why not downsize - that's the biggest chunk of your budget no matter where you live and you don't seem willing to "give" on that.
Sounds like she's considering trading a $700k house for one half that price, judging from her post.
Low, decent cost of living, great schools, low unemployment rate and companies are actually MOVING to Chesterfield County.
You wouldn't be that far from your family in TN who you could visit during the holidays. A couple of hours to the beach....and your husband's accent wouldn't sound "funny".. as there are many corporate re-lo's from the northeast to the area.
Twingles, not obsesses with a certain kind of housing, although I can see how it seems that way from my post. We are looking at the housing as a way to motivate us to go. What we are obsessed with is being home at 6pm to spend time with our child and having some semblance of a normal life. Also, I don't think downsizing would be an option. Our house is only 1700 sq feet now. Also, if we sold, in reality we would be losing money even if we broke even on the mortgage and would have little or no downpayment.
Zytos, wrong on both of the schools. But nice try. Zytos, I've been out for two years. Staying in wasn't an option for me, my pregnancy was extremely high risk and the stress and long hours were dangerous to the baby. So I left. And yes, maybe if we had both done it longer our loans would be paid off, but we weren't all that responsible with our money during that time (as we had plenty of it and were immature). And no Twingles is right, we would be trading a $500k mortgage for a $400k mortgage if we chose option 2. But the taxes would be lower.
ocngypz- I'll have to look into Chesterfield County. We hadn't really considered much beyond here or Tennessee, although I know we should. I guess I just have in my head if we are going to leave this area we love, at least I'll be close to family, but maybe that's not the best way to look at it.
Twingles, not obsesses with a certain kind of housing, although I can see how it seems that way from my post. We are looking at the housing as a way to motivate us to go. What we are obsessed with is being home at 6pm to spend time with our child and having some semblance of a normal life. Also, I don't think downsizing would be an option. Our house is only 1700 sq feet now. Also, if we sold, in reality we would be losing money even if we broke even on the mortgage and would have little or no downpayment.
Zytos, wrong on both of the schools. But nice try. Zytos, I've been out for two years. Staying in wasn't an option for me, my pregnancy was extremely high risk and the stress and long hours were dangerous to the baby. So I left. And yes, maybe if we had both done it longer our loans would be paid off, but we weren't all that responsible with our money during that time (as we had plenty of it and were immature). And no Twingles is right, we would be trading a $500k mortgage for a $400k mortgage if we chose option 2. But the taxes would be lower.
ocngypz- I'll have to look into Chesterfield County. We hadn't really considered much beyond here or Tennessee, although I know we should. I guess I just have in my head if we are going to leave this area we love, at least I'll be close to family, but maybe that's not the best way to look at it.
Stay where you are. Pay as much off as you can on your Mtg. Hopefully in a few years you have small amount in equity to sell your home & buy a $400K home with a mtg of $300K +/- INSTEAD OF A $500K!
And your taxes im sure will be a few grand cheaper. Off the bat, I am sure you will save over $1,500+++ per month?
Stay where you are. Pay as much off as you can on your Mtg. Hopefully in a few years you have small amount in equity to sell your home & buy a $400K home with a mtg of $300K +/- INSTEAD OF A $500K!
And your taxes im sure will be a few grand cheaper. Off the bat, I am sure you will save over $1,500+++ per month?
That's what I would do. Wait a few years - you have plenty of time with your child so small. Build some equity, hope the market rebounds, and then go.
Otherwise, do consider areas that will be close to your family but not necessarily in TN. Culturally, it sounds like it might not work for your DH which will make it harder for him to gain employment.
I know a stay-at-home mom doesn't have it easy, but if I were you, I would use your spare time to really analyze your finances and see if you could make things better on Long Island. Some questions:
1. Are you paying the appropriate property taxes or could you grieve/reduce them?
2. Are you paying the lowest possible mortgage rate or should you refinance?
3. Are your savings invested in the best possible way so that you get the maximum return?
4. Have you analyzed your spending to see if there are ways to cut without reducing your standard of living?
If you're not financially savvy, even buying a subscription to Money magazine or going to their web site would help.
I undertook these tasks several years ago as sort of a side job and we have significantly reduced our expenses and increased the income from savings without leaving Long Island. We cut our monthly mortgage payments in half by refinancing. Our pending move will allow us to make a significant profit on our home and sharply boost our retirement savings without reducing our standard of living to any great degree. We will be shifting from oil to gas heat for what we hope is a significant energy saving.
After you've maxed out the possibilities on Long Island, then your other questions really go to the happiness of your family. Everyone knows that you can live much better financially in the South, although you or your husband probably won't be able to duplicate New York salaries. The real question is whether you will fit in down there. My sister lives in a southern town and loves it, although if she would mention the name of a certain national politician in her church, she would probably be ostracized. I think the question of moving south is more emotional than financial and I'm not sure strangers on a forum can help you much.
If you are truly interested in having solid family time with less work hours for hubby you need to rethink the housing costs. 350 to 400K is too much to spend down south even with the decrease in taxes. Stop trying to keep up with the Joneses and try living below your means. That will give your husband flexibility on job/ hours he wants to work.
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