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The problem is why should a select few get an affordable rate while everyone else pays full price? These projects typically are forced to hold a certain percentage of apartments at below market rate.What virtues/qualities do those select few people will get these affordable prices have that makes them worthy of subsidy?
People are getting tired of giving non stop handouts to those who choose poorly in life. Whether its Obamacare subsidies, housing subsidies, welfare, WIC etc, it seems like it never ends.
Just getting tired of supporting women I didn't marry, kids I didn't create, undocumented immigrants who didn't follow our immigration laws,and people who prefered to take the easy way out.
Guess I am just cranky as I get older, lol.
It's not for select people. This is open to everyone with the means to pay for it. Affordable does not mean cheap housing handouts to poor people. Affordable means just that, open to everyone. But there is this "I'm middle class, so why should i be with the poor" feeling that creates problems psychologically. It basically means you're screwed in the head and so closed minded that you avoid contact with people whom you're already judging based on how much they earn.
Once people lose this nonsense of "I can't mix with the poor because I chose better" sensation, segregation in a social scheme of things will disappear. It's happening in manhattan. Rich and low-income people with a poorly paid job that needs no degree share a meal at an open plaza. The way things are designed nowadays is to create social interaction among different types of social classes.
The way houses are built today, and i will repeat it until i die, is the worst i've ever come across. Legislation and typology that demands a certain look and aspect to a house disallowing diversity and modernism creates a vacuum where ideas and green design get sucked into to never resurface again. And that is costing us money every single day. Houses now are poorly designed. Starting from building orientation to placement of volumes within an empty shell. The way a skin or facade is rendered and transformed to serve many purposes rather leaking heat or cool from your hvac system, etc etc etc.
It isn't about handouts. This is about educating this "middle class" who self entitles everything to go their way disregarding amenities for others. This is about transforming a closed minded society by design alone showing it can be done. It's been working in every part of the world but here, it's still a closed society.
Why can't we appreciate human beings as human beings? They all support and give a grain of their efforts to make this country better. But prejudicial politicians force us to think that poor means bad when poor can mean opportunities. Prejudicial politicians force us to believe that poor means laziness. Prejudicial politicians force us to accept that poor neighborhood means devalued homes.
Reality teaches us that those who don't have the means, have the brains to make something out of thin air to survive. Why can't we applaud that? why do we have to segregate? By segregating, we're allowing mafias and bad influences to take over those neighborhoods and create gangs, disorder, theft, etc.
People need to wake up. Traveling around the world will wake you up because boy some of you people are missing out. I'm 24 and think differently. Why can't you?
It's not for select people. This is open to everyone with the means to pay for it. Affordable does not mean cheap housing handouts to poor people. Affordable means just that, open to everyone. But there is this "I'm middle class, so why should i be with the poor" feeling that creates problems psychologically. It basically means you're screwed in the head and so closed minded that you avoid contact with people whom you're already judging based on how much they earn.
Once people lose this nonsense of "I can't mix with the poor because I chose better" sensation, segregation in a social scheme of things will disappear. It's happening in manhattan. Rich and low-income people with a poorly paid job that needs no degree share a meal at an open plaza. The way things are designed nowadays is to create social interaction among different types of social classes.
The way houses are built today, and i will repeat it until i die, is the worst i've ever come across. Legislation and typology that demands a certain look and aspect to a house disallowing diversity and modernism creates a vacuum where ideas and green design get sucked into to never resurface again. And that is costing us money every single day. Houses now are poorly designed. Starting from building orientation to placement of volumes within an empty shell. The way a skin or facade is rendered and transformed to serve many purposes rather leaking heat or cool from your hvac system, etc etc etc.
It isn't about handouts. This is about educating this "middle class" who self entitles everything to go their way disregarding amenities for others. This is about transforming a closed minded society by design alone showing it can be done. It's been working in every part of the world but here, it's still a closed society.
Why can't we appreciate human beings as human beings? They all support and give a grain of their efforts to make this country better. But prejudicial politicians force us to think that poor means bad when poor can mean opportunities. Prejudicial politicians force us to believe that poor means laziness. Prejudicial politicians force us to accept that poor neighborhood means devalued homes.
Reality teaches us that those who don't have the means, have the brains to make something out of thin air to survive. Why can't we applaud that? why do we have to segregate? By segregating, we're allowing mafias and bad influences to take over those neighborhoods and create gangs, disorder, theft, etc.
People need to wake up. Traveling around the world will wake you up because boy some of you people are missing out. I'm 24 and think differently. Why can't you?
You did not answer his questions. If fairness is what you are espousing, why then should everyone else pay full price? Why can't everyone who currently cannot afford houses in GC buy homes there, or pay through the nose? What makes these few people different from anyone else?
Since you seem to be involved in the building trade and lament how ingrained building practices makes things cost more, I must ask you why would you build "affordable" housing in one of the most expensive real estate areas on Long Island? There are plenty of other areas on LI that the land would be a fraction of the cost of land in Garden City.
The exorbinant price of the land immediately makes the project too expensive for the vast majority of people. So it is not available for "all" as you claim. It will be available for those who can afford it and for the select few who will get subsidized for it. So again
you are wrong as the people selected for subsidy do not have the means to pay for the going rate.
I question your view on how people eating together at an open cafe in Manhattan somehow conveys housing equality. Ever hear of a subway that people from outside Manhattan can use to travel to the city?
If anything, the city (particularly Brooklyn and Harlem) is becoming LESS affordable as gentrification happens, displacing the poor as the neighborhoods become more desirable for those with the means to pay more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmontesi
It's not for select people. This is open to everyone with the means to pay for it. Affordable does not mean cheap housing handouts to poor people. Affordable means just that, open to everyone. But there is this "I'm middle class, so why should i be with the poor" feeling that creates problems psychologically. It basically means you're screwed in the head and so closed minded that you avoid contact with people whom you're already judging based on how much they earn.
Once people lose this nonsense of "I can't mix with the poor because I chose better" sensation, segregation in a social scheme of things will disappear. It's happening in manhattan. Rich and low-income people with a poorly paid job that needs no degree share a meal at an open plaza. The way things are designed nowadays is to create social interaction among different types of social classes.
The way houses are built today, and i will repeat it until i die, is the worst i've ever come across. Legislation and typology that demands a certain look and aspect to a house disallowing diversity and modernism creates a vacuum where ideas and green design get sucked into to never resurface again. And that is costing us money every single day. Houses now are poorly designed. Starting from building orientation to placement of volumes within an empty shell. The way a skin or facade is rendered and transformed to serve many purposes rather leaking heat or cool from your hvac system, etc etc etc.
It isn't about handouts. This is about educating this "middle class" who self entitles everything to go their way disregarding amenities for others. This is about transforming a closed minded society by design alone showing it can be done. It's been working in every part of the world but here, it's still a closed society.
Why can't we appreciate human beings as human beings? They all support and give a grain of their efforts to make this country better. But prejudicial politicians force us to think that poor means bad when poor can mean opportunities. Prejudicial politicians force us to believe that poor means laziness. Prejudicial politicians force us to accept that poor neighborhood means devalued homes.
Reality teaches us that those who don't have the means, have the brains to make something out of thin air to survive. Why can't we applaud that? why do we have to segregate? By segregating, we're allowing mafias and bad influences to take over those neighborhoods and create gangs, disorder, theft, etc.
People need to wake up. Traveling around the world will wake you up because boy some of you people are missing out. I'm 24 and think differently. Why can't you?
You did not answer his questions. If fairness is what you are espousing, why then should everyone else pay full price? Why can't everyone who currently cannot afford houses in GC buy homes there, or pay through the nose? What makes these few people different from anyone else?
yep, but it is even worse than paying full price. the rest of the residents have to pay even more. the teachers, police, etc still need to be paid, roads, libraries, parks need funding. if you add a lots of housing that is not paying its full share of the tax load adding more demand for services, than those costs necessarily go up significantly for everyone else. i guess some people cant understand that there is no free lunch. all this kind of thing does is make housing even more unnaforadble for the rest of us. at some point you realize these things dont fix the underlying problems, it just buys a voting block for politicians, puts money in developers pockets and the rest of us are forced to collectively pay for it.
total side note, but when you step back and think about it, these types of programs and rent regulations are a great subsidy for big business. it allows them to underpay at our expense. if they could not find employees at a certain low wage because of the cost of living in an area they would be forced to to raise wages or stop operating. this type of thing allows some to work for less undercutting the rest of us from the other side as well. depressed wages and increased costs, thanks politicians and judges!
It's not for select people. This is open to everyone with the means to pay for it. Affordable does not mean cheap housing handouts to poor people. Affordable means just that, open to everyone. But there is this "I'm middle class, so why should i be with the poor" feeling that creates problems psychologically. It basically means you're screwed in the head and so closed minded that you avoid contact with people whom you're already judging based on how much they earn.
Once people lose this nonsense of "I can't mix with the poor because I chose better" sensation, segregation in a social scheme of things will disappear. It's happening in manhattan. Rich and low-income people with a poorly paid job that needs no degree share a meal at an open plaza. The way things are designed nowadays is to create social interaction among different types of social classes.
The way houses are built today, and i will repeat it until i die, is the worst i've ever come across. Legislation and typology that demands a certain look and aspect to a house disallowing diversity and modernism creates a vacuum where ideas and green design get sucked into to never resurface again. And that is costing us money every single day. Houses now are poorly designed. Starting from building orientation to placement of volumes within an empty shell. The way a skin or facade is rendered and transformed to serve many purposes rather leaking heat or cool from your hvac system, etc etc etc.
It isn't about handouts. This is about educating this "middle class" who self entitles everything to go their way disregarding amenities for others. This is about transforming a closed minded society by design alone showing it can be done. It's been working in every part of the world but here, it's still a closed society.
Why can't we appreciate human beings as human beings? They all support and give a grain of their efforts to make this country better. But prejudicial politicians force us to think that poor means bad when poor can mean opportunities. Prejudicial politicians force us to believe that poor means laziness. Prejudicial politicians force us to accept that poor neighborhood means devalued homes.
Reality teaches us that those who don't have the means, have the brains to make something out of thin air to survive. Why can't we applaud that? why do we have to segregate? By segregating, we're allowing mafias and bad influences to take over those neighborhoods and create gangs, disorder, theft, etc.
People need to wake up. Traveling around the world will wake you up because boy some of you people are missing out. I'm 24 and think differently. Why can't you?
Too often projects that may be conceived with good intentions fall into the same pattern of existing projects. "Open to everyone", usually not most projects have a significant portion allocated for those of lesser means which translates to none natives. To be a lower middle class caucasian your chances of being selected are far lower because there are others with less opportunity. As for peoples mind set; those biases are on both sides of the economic fence you can't pin it on just one group.
You object to a certain look, you find it distasteful well many like uniformity and traditional architecture. I recall one neighborhood where you had a country farm house look with a front porch and next to it was a contemporary that looked like a Klingon War Ship, the entire neighborhood was a mix like this. Looked like cra* to me but you would probably like the diversity. It's subjective and you need to move to a newer community to see newer ideas. Green construction, great, no problem except for two factors. One the industry cost is frequently too high to justify using the product and two very often the architecture is very modern and I'm sorry but more often not people do not like it.
I have woken up and traveled over large parts of the world, I have seen a lot of great things and I have seen slums and poverty so bad the worst project in the NYC metro looks good compared to it. Your 24, idealistic and probably still only responsible for yourself; keep your ideas add 20 years, a spouse, some kids and responsibilities and then judge others.
People need to wake up. Traveling around the world will wake you up because boy some of you people are missing out. I'm 24 and think differently. Why can't you?
Respectfully... traveling the world should also teach one that we don't know what poverty truly is. Not having the opportunity to buy an affordable home on Long Island is trivial in comparison to the living conditions of most of the world. Really, if you can't afford to buy a home, then you don't buy one until you can. Period.
The GC issue makes me think of the way Section 8 has driven up the cost of rent for the rest of us. Here's a program that allows people without adequate income to live in better conditions than a family with 3 times the income, but without the expense. Basically, it helps one group, at the expense of another.
Respectfully... traveling the world should also teach one that we don't know what poverty truly is. Not having the opportunity to buy an affordable home on Long Island is trivial in comparison to the living conditions of most of the world. Really, if you can't afford to buy a home, then you don't buy one until you can. Period.
The GC issue makes me think of the way Section 8 has driven up the cost of rent for the rest of us. Here's a program that allows people without adequate income to live in better conditions than a family with 3 times the income, but without the expense. Basically, it helps one group, at the expense of another.
Really.
I remember seeing three different families, with babies, living under a flyover sandwiched in between two hectic and busy highways in Manila. The locals I was with thought that not so bad compared to the shanty town right opposite where personal safety and leaky discomfort during the rainy season were diabolical.
At the time I was living in a dump of a converted factory in Brooklyn. The floors were mismatching concrete, seeping oily in some parts still. The heater was an industrial gas burner which felt like a jet engine when it switched on. But the door locked shut, warm water came out of the taps and there was an indoors flushing toilet! It felt like a paradise of comfort and safety the first month I returned from Manila.
There are millions of people living like that in just that one country.
^^ Yes, and I think it bears reminding that the main reason immigrants come to the USA is because of the opportunity for a better life an upward mobility, and they're willing to hustle for it.
Neither my husband nor I came from money, and we've had to deal with financial set-backs. Yes, it sucks being working poor, but at the very least we have the opportunity to better ourselves if we want it bad enough. I worked while he finished college, and now he's doing the same while I finish college (without loans!) We (and our 3 small children) live in a 1 bedroom apartment that costs just over half of our monthly income... but hard work WILL allow us to change our circumstances at some point. The trouble is a lot of young people just starting out want to be on chapter 3, when they haven't finished chapter 1 yet... and take advantage of these programs without giving any though to where the subsidy is coming from.
I looked into the matter further and explored the info on their website further and i'm having a really difficult time understanding ERASERacism
Now, I believe this organization was started for a good cause and YES, housing discrimination DOES exist but something just really seems off. I'm really interested in this subject and it would actually be nice if somebody from their organization or somebody who has a good understanding of them would chip in.
Quote:
While the County’s most recent analysis of fair housing impediments finds that “the Nassau-Suffolk PMSA [Primary Metropolitan Statistical Area] ranks as the third most segregated suburban region” in the country and identifies local opposition to integrative, affordable multi-family housing as an impediment to fair housing choice, it proposes no appropriate actions to actually overcome such barriers. As a consequence, a number of municipalities have engaged in discriminatory land use policies and practices, such as zoning exclusions and residential preferences, which serve to limit the number of African Americans in their communities.
This assumes that if a community doesn't want to zone for something as random as multi-family housing then it's trying to keep out blacks. I find this to be greatly incorrect:
1. Some people [including myself] do value the appearance of picturesque space, single-family homes and lower-density communities.
2. It ignores the fact that there ARE blacks who CAN afford single-family homes. The vast majority of blacks in both Nassau, Suffolk and Queens actually already currently live in single-family homes.
3. MOST segregation is voluntary: Blacks as well as members of every other race are free to buy a home wherever they choose to; it's not a community's fault if they happen to have a low black population. There are actually plenty of even well-to-do LI blacks who are content w/the areas that have high black populations and were not forced/pushed there.
Last edited by MemoryMaker; 04-30-2014 at 12:46 PM..
1. Nassau county owns the land, they wanted to sell it and have a developer build 300 high end condos and asked GC to change the zoning, GC did.
2. GC residents did not want such a big building and complained, GC went back and said you can build but it must be single family homes and a certain amount of townhouses. That area of GC only has single family homes.
3. GC never said they couldn't build affordable housing, GC was only concerned with density.
4. GC knew they would lose because of the Judge, he is known to be out of his mind (thats not a joke) and once the Judge let Nassau County off the hook GC new this wasn't about the facts, it was the Judge playing to the platiffs. Do you really believe that Judge would let that happen if Great Neck where he lives?
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