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Gcguy, and what happened with "real life" that made you leave New York City and move to Long Island? I know 8 million people with (more or less) real lives that live in NYC and haven't yet needed to move out.
I'm a relative newcomer to the forums here, but have to say that I was taken aback by the vehemence of Dedalus' hatred of LI. I've lived here for 50+ years and thus know what it was like "back in the day" as well as what it's like now. I've also traveled extensively both in the USA and abroad, lest anyone assume that I've never had anyplace else to compare LI to. That being said...
... Yes LI has its problems. The housing market is overpriced, we're egregiously overtaxed, and traffic is bad (though no worse than Boston and its suburbs, which which I'm also familiar; and let's not even discuss D.C.!). And true, our mass transit system is not what it should be for the 21st century .. BUT... Long Island has always been a "automobile centered" place. The infrastructure was designed by people like Levitt and Robert Moses with that in mind! Unfortunately they didn't anticipate the kind of expansion that has occured since the early 1950s.
The OP speaks as if LI has no redeeming features whatsoever anymore, because of Suburban Sprawl. Yet for every square foot of Evil Shopping Mall, there is probably an equal or greater number of square feet of beach, parkland, or conservation area. As for "what there is for kids to do", do you mean other than the myriad sports, music, performing arts and special interest clubs offered by our heftily-funded-by-taxes school districts? How about the community baseball, softball, soccer, ice hockey, etc teams that kids can also join? Guess what, we also have pro sports for the bigger kids and adults: LI Ducks baseball, LI Dragons arena football and gee whiz, we actually have a real live NHL hockey team here as well. (It's the team that beat the Manhattan-based NY Rangers tonight for the fourth time in as many games.) If you don't want to laze around on the beach, how about kayaking or canoeing on the Nissequogue River? whale-watching off Montauk? charter fishing, or fishing tournaments anyone? auto racing further east if you're into that? a water park in the summer? car shows and clubs? art and antique shows? theatre groups? Or for those who'd like to work off some of their aggression, there's always the paintball tourney fields out in Medford.
There are plenty of things for kids and adults to do on Long Island other than hanging around shopping malls -- one merely has to pick oneself up off one's derriere and JUST DO IT.
OvertaxedonLI, I understand what you mean. I've been to Long Island only once but thought it was beautiful and had small towns with pretty houses and nice coffee shops and whatever. I'm sure there are lots of things to do there if you look for them.
But I also totally understand what Dedalus means: what good is it to have sports, beaches and things if you're stuck in a subdivision and have to drive your car far out to get to that museum, reserve, theater? What if you're a young kid with no car? Stuck at home. What if you like specialty and/or ethnic foods? Not much to choose from other than fake-ish Italian pizza. It can be discouraging.
You both have good arguments, and it is true indeed that modern Long Island was indeed designed around the automobile. Precisely because of that, many of us would never live out there. We wanna walk and feel the neighborhoods!
it is true indeed that modern Long Island was indeed designed around the automobile. Precisely because of that, many of us would never live out there. We wanna walk and feel the neighborhoods!
Exactly true, Manhattan-ite: you "get it". But often people either forget or don't understand that the whole "if you live on LI and don't have a car, you're out of luck" scenario is NOT new, nor is it a product of any particular decade. It's always been that way! The only difference between the sixties and today is that now there are a lot more people (and thus more cars on the road, and more land converted to residential and commercial use) and subsequently a lot less open space.
If you live on LI, you're going to need a car (or someone in the family who has one) in order to go places and do things. This is a fact of life here; it always has been and it always will be. As Manhattan-ite says, someone who prefers to have almost everything available within walking distance should not consider living here. Yes there are quite a few places (villages) where you can live within walking distance of a great majority of things but that is not the norm and never has been.
I love LI and have only 2 gripes with it: the high property taxes and the high price of houses (very little bang for the buck). I love the fact that we have all 4 seasons, that winters are generally mild with not much snow, and that the summers are cooled by the wind off either the Bay or the Sound. There are a gazillion restaurants (including many ethnic ones) and I don't mind if I may have to drive 15 or 20 or even 30 minutes to get to a particular one. Although I'm not particularly fond of shopping, I love the fact that if I do need something, I have an incredible number of sources in which to search for and find it. This is especially important when building or remodeling. It would drive me crazy to be building or renovating a house in an area where there are only 2 or 3 local sources for materials, appliances, furnishings, etc. There are not just one or two but many facilities available for medical care, higher education, recreation as I said earlier (though I forgot to mention the golf courses and the wineries), all within an hour's drive or less and without leaving Nassau/Suffolk Counties. I have never found this kind of convenience-on-demand anyplace else, but to take advantage of it, yes, you (or your family) needs a car.
To demonize Long Island for being a place where having a car is a necessity, makes as much sense as demonizing New York City (meaning Manhattan) for being a place where having a car is a liability.
Regarding Long Island. Yes, it's what you make of it. Unfortunately we seem 'trapped here' at the moment but we also want to move. In the meantime, if you want to avoid the shopping/money spending is culture on Long Island, you have to seek out other things.
We don't have a lot of money nor do we enjoy spending time at the mall so we take our son other places. We go to a park (most are free or reasonably priced) every weekend. There are lovely nature centers here (again, free) where you can see animals, enjoy nature, or just reconnect with your family outside restaurants/stores/high priced whatevers..
I agree the public transportation options are awful. Due to the high cost of gas/insurance/and so on we only have one car and I am the one who either stays home or walks (dangerous) if I have to get somewhere. The buses are USELESS but again that is done for a reason (keep out the 'poor') not that I agree with it, but that's how it is.
My advice to you is you have to live and make the best of what you have until you get somewhere else. No where is perfect.
Gcguy, and what happened with "real life" that made you leave New York City and move to Long Island? I know 8 million people with (more or less) real lives that live in NYC and haven't yet needed to move out.
Well, first off, I shouldn't sound so negative. NYC is amazing and is the best city in the world. I just hate how people berate suburbs blindly and uniformly b/c they think city life is the only way to go. Believe me, I was the same way. LI (and many NY suburbs) are not cookie cutter, run of the mill b/c they are made up of former NYC residents. There is culture, cuisine, and shopping...not on the scale of Manhattan, but certainly better than most places, and better than many cities.
Sure, you need a car, but is that so bad? The traffic in the NY metro is very low compared to most of America. There are a number of villages and towns with very nice downtown areas that are walkable and have unique shops, etc. Garden City, where I now live, is one of them. I am surrounded by more. Yes, there are malls and strip malls, but so what? Don't go. And some of those strip malls have great places...Thai food, Italian delis, etc.
I moved to LI b/c I wanted more of a community, I wanted better schools, and I wanted a number of other things that NYC (Queens) was not providing. I have a wife, 18 month old, 2 dogs, and a little one on the way. i have a job I like on Long Island, and it just made much more sense.
Taxes are higher, but now I don't pay city income tax, I save $1000 a year on car insurance, and I don't have to send the kids to Catholic school. It all evens out. LI is still a family oriented place and I like that.
Bottom line, there are pluses and minueses to all places. If there weren't, I would assume everyone would be living in that perfect place...which would make it a lot less perfect I'd imagine.
Hey guys - I am not from New York - have some family up in Syracuse - but I have visited a time or two. I was very impressed with the culture and the millions of things to do - but I am not a 'city girl'.
Until the age of 11, I lived in Louisville. Very small by New York standards, but busy and challeging nonetheless. We moved to another county when I was going into 7th grade to avoid the desegragation issues. I would have been bussed my senior year, andmy parents made the choice to move me.
When we got there, I knew no one, and the 'subdivision' we landed in was mostly open land - a brand new development. I was miserable - as we moved in a month before school started and there were no other kids in my neighborhood. As an only child, I read, stayed in my room and rode my bike around, and around the circle.
BUT...school started and the very first day I met my best friend for life. Lea and I sat across from one another that very first day (she had grown up there), and we began to talk. That was the beginning of a wonderful life.
We rode bikes, participated in school activities, went out for cheerleadiing and made it, played in the band.. I could go on and on. We are best friends to this day - over 29 years now.
I don't think it is always where you are - it's more of what you make of it. Being close to museums and theater would have been nice, I guess, but if you have never had it, you don't know you are missing anything and your life is/can be good.
My kids - I have made many attempts to expose them to theater, the museums, art, etc - but growing up in the country - boys will be boys and they would have much rather have gone hunting or fishing when they were younger. Now that they are older - they are very well rounded, and dabble in a little bit of everything. They have found their niches and enjoy life.
I suppose we all have our favorite ways to live - thank God we are so diverse!
"Overtaxed on LI" mentioned Robert Moses. You know, there were proposals to run a set of rail tracks right down the middle of the LIE. All they would have need to have done is widen the right of way a little. Moses would not have it, and used all his power to block it.
What was once so spiffy and modern - the idea that everyone would have their own car and that mass transit was obsolete - is an idea whose time has come and gone. Can you look at the news from the Middle East and deny this? Do you think we would be sending 20,000 more GI's over to that chronic quagmire if we didn't want the oil? Just as sure as God made little green apples, terrorists are going to explode a nuke right in the middle of Israel, the Israelis will retaliate, and the next day, the price of petroleum will double.
There is still time to do something about this, but people out here seem determined to bury their heads in the sand and do...nothing.
It's in poor taste to get too personal in a discussion like this. I'll just say that the traffic deaths issue is very much in the foreground for me. If you don't know what I mean, I'm happy for you, I hope you never do.
Im 15 and I live in long island. Sure its boring.. But the summer take the LIR to Jones Beach. In the summer go to Valley Stream State park and hang with friends... To cold outside? Go on myspace lol. Hang out at the mall where we all work. (Except for me) Eat at the food court. Your parents dont need to drive you anywhere its called your BIKE!? Dont forget about ADVENTURELAND! Sure beats nothing. In new york city what could a 10 year old do that a 10 year old in the suburbs cant do? They have no money their not going to be in shops! They want to have a backyard to play in.. or ride their bike with out worrying about getting hit by a car or running over someone.
Ill rather grow up in the suburbs as a 0-20 year old then in the City. The city in my opinion is suited for young adults.
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That being said...
that Long Island thing
But often people either forget or don't understand that the whole "if you live on LI and don't have a car, you're out of luck" scenario is NOT new, nor is it a product of any particular decade. It's always been that way! The only difference between the sixties and today is that now there are a lot more people (and thus more cars on the road, and more land converted to residential and commercial use) and subsequently a lot less open space. 
