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I think I see what your problem is.
First, your eyes have been opened because you see heroin in a "Nice neighborhood". Surely, if this drug has made it's way in to a nice place like Smithown, it must be absolutely out of control in a less desirable area? This is logical but the fact is, the middle/upper middle class kids that live right in your nice neighborhood are the ones shooting up. They are the junkies. The Cenral Islip folks aren't boarding busses and shooting up in Smithown if you know what I mean. So it's a homegrown problem, not necessarily a problem that "Spread". Furthermore, it's not a neighborhood problem, it's parenting. OK, so I may sound like a cynic but I think it's suspicious that the moment the "Haves" notice a problem it's suddenly an "Epidemic".
Next, you must understand that police do not deter crime. They clean up the mess. That's not a cop bash (I support the police) it's just the way it is. The most effective tool the Suffolk police (And Sheriffs) have is Omnipresence. This is why cop cars look like cop cars. once they pass by the criminals aren't concerned anymore. The SCPD did not lose it's job to the Sheriffs or State Police. This is a revenue ploy by Levy and actually put more beat cops on the street (I'm not looking to discuss the pros and cons of Levy's actions). Are cops out of touch. I dunno, maybe. That's your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it.
The side effect to your situation is once drugs and crime hit the nice neighborhoods it's suddenly news worthy. This is a good thing and puts pressure on the cops to help clean it up. So hopefully there is a silver lining.
My problem?? I do not have a problem...you are attempting to paint my reply as some privileged naive snob who assumes if it has come into my "precious" area it must truly be a problem elsewhere. You are spinning my anecdote into some class warfare issue. And nowhere in my post did I imply this was not a Smithtown issue, or that some undesireables were coming into my precious enclave form CI, or any other "bad" area. My point was, if we have seen this issue increase to where hypodermic needles are being used and tossed aside in the daytime hours in a typical "nice neighborhood", not in some dark alley, NOT out of sight, not behind some darkened strip mall, then I think it is fair to say it is a very pervasive issue. You disagree?? Do you honestly think this issue has not become increasingly pervasive?? Do you REALLY think, aside from your desire to paint me as some naive snob, that areas like Central Islip do not have a drug issue already...how does the SNL skit go...Really?!?...Really?!?
I think it is an epidemic. I shared my story. I thought the first responding officer made the right impression, and the second one left a lot to be desired. I fully realize it is not SCPD's fault we are seeing this increase and will do whatever I can from a community standpoint to help.
Percocet contains the stronger oxycodone while vicodin contains hydrocodone.
I am aware of that, my point was that Percocet is also mixed with over the counter medication (tylenol), as you mentioned that vicodin is.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
Vicodin is far from the only "real pain medication" on Schedule III and lower. The only difference I can see is you can get a high on vicodin better than on those others. Why do you personally single it out in particular as special and a tragedy if it were to be placed in Schedule II?
In my opinion, Vicodin is the only Schedule 3 strong enough to treat moderate pain. That is why I single it out, as it is first line treatment that doctors will call in for pain, after the much less adequate T3. I prefer to let doctors make the decisions on what is adequate for treatment.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
The dentist can write a prescription. (Unless you were in so much pain you bit his hand so hard he cannot write.)
In that case, the dentist could not, as it was 8PM and I just needed something to tide over the pain until I could be seen again in the AM (horrible infection after extraction)
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
If someone is in terrible pain AFTER HOURS for a visit to an office of a dentist or doctor, then they belong at the Emergency Room. If a person has chronic pain problems, then they should be responsible enough to make sure they don't run out of medication at odd hours.
When it is something like I experienced, no, they don't belong in an Emergency Room. Waste of money and resources. Not an emergency and can be fixed until the AM with a simple phone call into a pharmacy.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
They could be if they were in Schedule III, but the difference is they are not widely available. If there were less restriction on them, do you think they would still continue to be so "safe" to all?
Percocet and Oxycontin are much more heavily abused than Vicodin. Oxycontin is the biggest gateway drug to heroin.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
Most people in jail have addiction problems and many of them are in jail as a direct result of crime committed because of their addiction or being caught with their addictive substance, so what's your point? They are not being punished?
My point is people are freaking out because their kids are abusing drugs. Hey - they were abusing drugs in the 90's when I was in HS too. And they often get a slap on the wrist, or their parents get them a nice lawyer and blame the doctors, or the drug makers, or the FDA, rather than blaming their kids.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
When it comes to addiction "use as directed" does not come into play. Addicts are extremely self-destructive and literally do not care about anything or anyone but drugs, so how do you expect them to "use as directed?"
I know several addicts and watched several self-destruct after HS. There will always be addicts, and they will always get what they want regardless of whether or not it is legal. ANYTHING can be addictive when not used as directed. Xanax can be addictive as well, should that be a Schedule 2 drug? Muscle relaxants? Tylenol with Codiene?
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
Wouldn't it be safer to have regulations on medications that can be dangerous?
They are already highly regulated and every narcotic script is logged and monitored as it is - including Sched. 3 Vicodin.
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Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but
Why are you so against this type of regulation? Are you against regulations on air pollution too, for example, and all the other myriad regulations in the US to keep us safe? Or perhaps you would like to just demolish the entire FDA and be done with it?
I'm not against regulation at all, I am against excessive regulation. I think that you think it's a lot easier to legally get these drugs than it really is. The FDA HIGHLY monitors all narcotic prescriptions and frequently comes down, hard, on doctors that they believe are over prescribing, and patients getting Scheduled drugs from multiple doctors. Every script for a controlled substance is logged and tracked.
I have been down this path before so I am not so "naive" and "uninformed" as you might think. I have seen first hand how easy they can be to get. I've had all these arguments about vikeys and oxys with a relative who loved them so dearly he ended up getting addicted. He was NOT an alcoholic or abuser of illegal drugs before that, so how did he know he would end up an addict? My relative thought his doctors (who prescribed him what he wanted and "understood" his excessive pain while other doctors didn't) were omniscient too. The relative got what he deserved, professional ruin, and now is probably 10 years behind in life than where he should be. It could have been worse of course. He could have lost his life or got a long jail sentence (rather than the small ones he got due to drug abuse) instead of just losing his successful career, house, family, investments, and credit rating. The problem is people who love drugs so much that they will act against all common sense and insist they are too regulated. Funny how these types are not screaming about excessive regulation in any other areas of life in the US. Face it, we do have a lot of safety regulation here on just about everything. Then others follow their lead, like dopey high school kids, and new addicts are minted constantly, to the detriment of themselves and anyone else who has the misfortune to have to interact with them.
Last edited by I_Love_LI_but; 11-20-2009 at 11:19 AM..
That's a great example and helps prove my point, thanks.
The people of North Bellport are expected to be on drugs. North Bellport is a "Bad" area with a crappy SD, so if News12 did a feature regarding the Heroin problem in N Bellport, nobody would notice or care.
Ah, but when the rich white kids do Heroin, it's an EPIDEMIC. Oh No!!!! Heroin is spreading!!! Somebody do somethng!!!
Brentwood, Bellport, CI, etc=nobody cares.
White town= Epidemic.
I'm surprised this isn't obvious.
You are getting into an entirely different debate regarding socio-economic bias and racism...I do not think this is the right context. For example we can debate why the mainstream media goes crazy over a young blonde white girl abduction versus an african american child being kidnapped in another thread. And I do not disagree...
Black, white, purple or otherwise if areas of Long Island are showing huge percentage upticks in heroin-related overdoses and arrests where a few years back the officers in those locales spent more time on mainly petty larceny or domestic issues I would venture that it has become more pervasive. I have not seen precinct statistics that show these incidents going down in the other areas perceived as "bad". So if the precinct stats and crime levels in "bad" areas have persisted or risen, and now this issue is being seen in broad daylight in areas that never had these same issues...I would say it is becoming an epidemic. Or you could say it is white "hysteria". I disagree...it is heroin hysteria, and I think it is warranted.
My problem?? I do not have a problem...you are attempting to paint my reply as some privileged naive snob who assumes if it has come into my "precious" area it must truly be a problem elsewhere. You are spinning my anecdote into some class warfare issue. And nowhere in my post did I imply this was not a Smithtown issue, or that some undesireables were coming into my precious enclave form CI, or any other "bad" area. My point was, if we have seen this issue increase to where hypodermic needles are being used and tossed aside in the daytime hours in a typical "nice neighborhood", not in some dark alley, NOT out of sight, not behind some darkened strip mall, then I think it is fair to say it is a very pervasive issue. You disagree?? Do you honestly think this issue has not become increasingly pervasive?? Do you REALLY think, aside from your desire to paint me as some naive snob, that areas like Central Islip do not have a drug issue already...how does the SNL skit go...Really?!?...Really?!?
I think it is an epidemic. I shared my story. I thought the first responding officer made the right impression, and the second one left a lot to be desired. I fully realize it is not SCPD's fault we are seeing this increase and will do whatever I can from a community standpoint to help.
deep breaths.
Man, you really read a lot of stuff in to my post that simply isn't there.
I've had all these arguments about vikeys and oxys with a relative who loved them so dearly he ended up getting addicted. He was NOT an alcoholic or abuser of illegal drugs before that, so how did he know he would end up an addict? My relative thought his doctors (who prescribed him what he wanted and "understood" his excessive pain while other doctors didn't) were omniscient too. The relative got what he deserved, professional ruin, and now is probably 10 years behind in life than where he should be. It could have been worse of course. He could have lost his life or got a long jail sentence (rather than the small ones he got due to drug abuse) instead of just losing his successful career, house, family, investments, and credit rating. The problem is people who love drugs so much that they will act against all common sense and insist they not be regulated enough. Then other idiots follow their lead, like dopey high school kids and new addicts are minted constantly.
And when my back goes out I will be rather annoyed my pain cannot be managed or at the very least, I have to jump through hoops to get pain meds, because you know someone who was led down a path that ended with drug addiction. Mind you, the guy popping the pills is not to blame. No, it's the Doctor's fault.
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Oh No!!!! Heroin is spreading!!! Somebody do somethng!!!
