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Your child's ability to say on task, focus in a classroom environment and develop relationships with his/her classmates are more important to his acceptance of classroom instruction in the lower grades than are his reading and writing skills
I'm a bit confused, sounds here like you're suggesting that he should wait then to begin kindergarten. What did you end up doing w/your daughter?
I'm a bit confused, sounds here like you're suggesting that he should wait then to begin kindergarten. What did you end up doing w/your daughter?
I am suggesting that he not push his child ahead.
I have noticed with my children that their attitude toward school is primarily driven by their ability to understand and accept the educational process (homework, studying for tests, projects, etc...) than their grades.
To answer your question, we respected the super's opinion and waited a year.
My neighbor's child went through the same thing. He is exceptionally bright and has tested way beyond his grade level. We're in 3V; the child was bored out of his mind in the classroom. This year is his 1st year in IG (starts in 4th grade now) and he is finally in his element, being challenged, and loving school.
As for children who are on/near the cutoff date: it depends from child to child. I see many parents who've held their children back to give them a competitive edge. A few children were kept back for maturity issues and others for motor skills. My youngest was born close to the cutoff; the pre-school teacher and K orientation indicated she was more than ready to move forward. She's on of the youngest. Some children in her grade are 15 months older than she is.
If I had a child born after the cutoff, I would hold him back from K until next year and then be more assured that he will be at the top of the class, rather than always having to play catch up and therefore hating school.
I sort of disagree with this as a blanket statement. I guess I want my kid to be at the top of the class if that is where she belongs and that's what her ability is, not bcs I held her back to give her some advantage...
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Originally Posted by bbq797
just out of curiosity though, if you were to go through this in a couple of years from now, do you know what you would do?
My daughter is too young to make that call yet. If she was ready, I'd pay for her to go private, but I think the social/emotional component is a big one and I wouldn't overlook that. I definitely agree with another poster who mentioned that their ability to understand the educational process is key.
I was always one of the youngest in my grade (late fall bday) and I'm glad my parents sent me when I was 4. I still did a gifted program, went abroad on exchange when I was 16, took classes at USB as a senior, etc. The only time I felt out of place was in college. Kind of wish I had waited a year or two as I went to a very large school, picked a useless major (English Lit!) and didn't get much out of the experience.
bbq797 - You've got a tough problem. Sounds like what I had with my son.
Looking back with our situation in Three Village, it may have been better to have home schooled my son for the first 3 years. That would have preserved his hunger for learning - because, boy, did he love to do those activity books (I sent him in to kindergarten with a couple of books to keep him busy while the other kids were attempting to finish their work and my son had empty time and the teacher had a fit over it). His enthusiasm for learning was amazing and fantastic before kindergarten and was never regained. I think his self esteem suffered too from being dumbed down by the first 3 teachers - they never called on him to answer a question - my daughter had the same thing happen as well. After he was bored out of his mind, as OhBeeHave put it, for 3 years, I never saw that same excitement and love of learning ever again. Today he's at Bucknell U. having a great experience there, and loves it, but even with an environment like that he's still not back to the enthusiasm for learning that he had when he was 5 and before kindergarten.
I'm no proponent of home schooling, but in our case that probably would have been the better alternative to the drudgery and boredom and misery that our son experienced in the public school system the first 3 years. He would have skipped that very bad experience and launched into the IG program fresh and full of enthusiasm. What you're doing at home is actually home schooling if he can already read and do math etc. I didn't realize that that's what I was doing with our son. To us it was plain fun. Anything cerebral like puzzles, word jumbles, math problems, reading out loud, etc. is schooling. Just because it's fun doesn't mean it's not schooling.
Average kids take what seems forever to your child to learn anything. They are s - l - o - w. It can be maddening. Like I said, your child will definitely learn patience. Imagine as an adult your going back to school and taking a course, but the course is geared for people whose apptitude is about 40 IQ points lower than yours. It takes them forever to learn anything and you have to quietly sit there for class after class while the professor drones on and on over the same point(s) they just cannot comprehend. Eventually you'd lose all patience and question why you bothered.
My son did lose hope in kindergarten around Thanksgiving. He gave up. Prior to that he would ask me when he would actually learn something. When did school really start? Imagine having to tell your child that school won't start for them until 3rd grade. I kept encouraging him to interact with the kids (which he did) and to know that in 3 years (light years for a little kid) he'd be where he really should be. That's all I could offer him. A very sad plight.
We didn't have the $ for the school for the gifted, which would solve your problem beautifully. All I can think of is home schooling, and I don't think Kings Park has an IG program, and don't know if it has any kind of gifted and talented program, or even just a little enrichment.
My cousin's son is at Half Hollow Hills in Dix Hills, and in now 4th grade he's in a self-contained class of kids like him one day a week, which is certainly better than none. Which also implies the system there has enough kids to put together a class like that. But when I think of what he could be doing in a full-time self-contained program, it's sickening. This kid is extremely bright - probably an IQ upwards of 150. They also went through the same thing, nothing for him but a little pulling out of the regular classroom for some "enrichment." What ever that means.
Andrea,
Your post states EXACTLY what my concerns are. I just couldn't articulate them that well b/c when I try to discuss the subject with others, they really don't see what the big deal is. So I second guess myself that maybe I'm making more out of this than need be. But you are speaking from the voice of experience and I appreciate that--what you said really is what I'm afraid might happen. But what about the social/emotional aspect-- someone else stated that it's "Hard to judge that yourself when you don't see them in a social setting" which is a good point. Right now I'm not so sure he could tolerate a full program, but 8 mos from now in Sept. might be a different story. He's also and extremely sensitive kid which factors into possibly waiting.
As for a program that is right for him, the only one I know of is school for the gifted, but wayy too expensive.
The big question is could he tolerate a full day of boredom. He will certainly be able to tolerate a full day geared to his learning abilities and would thrive on it.
Most people don't have a clue what these super intelligent kids are like because they don't have any. So to clarify as to what they are like, well, they're like other kids: they like to play baseball, soccer, basketball, run, jump, scream, swim and jump off diving boards, play Wii, computer games, etc. They're the same as other kids except they learn things at the speed of lightning and nothing has to be repeated - that would be boring for them and that's where the problem lies. In short, they're well adjusted kids, and maybe more so than the average, so I wouldn't worry about social/emotional fallout when it is time for him to go to school. And btw, sensitive is one of the hallmarks of these kids - it's because they're so smart that they see through everything and everyone.
Perhaps you could come on strong with the school system and strongly request a kindergarten-, first- and second-grade, etc., teacher who would take the time to work with your son at his pace (I "only" went to my son's school and also wrote letters to them every year requesting a teacher who would work with my son and wasn't obnoxious about it - probably my big mistake). Get in their face or they won't take you seriously. It may pay to get him tested for this purpose and then you'd could go in with some ammunition. Having a teacher who will teach him at his level may be the saving grace here. If the school system will provide him with a teacher who will give him as much time as they would give a very slow kid, then that may be your answer.
One other thing: Buy the book Guiding the Gifted Child for $5 off Amazon and read it. It will answer lots of questions and help you to deal with many things.
I have a 2 year old who was born on Dec 8. I have 2 more years, but I will be facing the same issue then. I am in Jericho, where the cutoff is Dec 1. I was in Mineola before, where the cut off was Dec 31. Just moving to a better school district has put me in line for a dilemma.
I did speak to the principal of the Elementary school in Jericho about this, and she confirmed that most kids who come into K here can read, write and do basic math. She also said that doing private-K might not automatically qualify the kid for 1st.
My 2 year old can already read all the letters and count 1-10 in 4 languages, and do more complex shape identification ( like pentagons, octagons etc). But this might not mean she is gifted.. she just might have an inclination to pick up words and numbers. But she is not as advanced in her motor skills as a 2.5 year old, and her emotional maturity is still at 2.. ( the terrible 2's with the temper tamtrums etc). I am still going to wait and observe.
My advice will be to look into all three aspects 1) Academics 2) Motor skills 3) Social maturity. Is your kid stronger / larger than his peers. Being the smartest and smallest kid in a class might be deadly combination in school.. setting the kid to be a geek personality. You wouldn't want to do that.
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Originally Posted by bbq797
Hi all, I'm having trouble trying to figure out what's best for my four year old son. We live in Kings Park and the cut off for kindergarten is 12/1; his birthday is 12/12, so he just misses it, which is fine--no rush. Except for the fact that he's very advanced academically. He's been reading, adding, subtracting etc. for quite some time now--and he loves it. It's not just that the ability is there, it's that he loves it and thrives on it. I don't want to push him on one hand (plenty of time for school, fine with just letting him be a kid) on the other hand, if he's doing all of this now, what will he be doing in two years from now in a half day kindergarten.
It's been suggested that I send him to private kindergarten (instead of the preschool he currently attends) next year, and then first grade after that (sort of circumventing the cut off date I guess). Grrr...really afraid to push, but also afraid of him being bored etc...
Would appreciate any feedback/suggestions! Thanks!!!
Many parents believe their oldest child is advanced because the child can do things that the parent does not recall doing at that age when she was a child. However, there are many children that come into K knowing how to read and do basic math. If your school district is in an upper middle class area in which most children have gone to Nursery and Pre-K, then the K teachers will be doing a more advanced curriculum. If many parents in your town do not send their children to Pre-K, then the K curriculum will be more basic. However, I do know that most districts now expect all Kindergarten students to be reading at a 1st grade level by June. So what you remember 1st grade to include is now in K.
Differentiated Instruction is being stressed by all districts these days. When I visit the K classes, I see the bright children are having a good time even doing the basic work. When a parent repeatedly questions her child if he/she likes school or feels challenged, the child is going to believe something is wrong and will be goaded into not enjoying school. So much of a child's attitude towards school is reflective of the parent's attitude toward school.
When I had my own Kindergarten screening, I tested at the 6th grade level in reading. The school gave my parents the option to let me skip K, but they decided they wanted me to have the chance to be a kid. I am glad that they did not let me skip. Instead, I was fortunate enough to not struggle through school. I enjoyed having friends of differing abilities, and liked doing peer tutoring. It helped prepare me for the real world, in which you don't always get to do intellectually stimulating tasks every day.
Take time to stop and smell the roses. Your son's or daughter's childhood is not a race or competition.
I have to agree with this post. Many parents think that their children are exceptional and that could be the case here. But a child who can read when they are four is not an exception these days, nor the ability to add and subtract either. It is not an indicator of that group of people with IQs in the top one half percent. Reading has two components, decoding and comprehension. There are kids who can "read" the New York Times, but cannot comprehend the articles. Comprehension is reading. At 4, my own kid could pick up a copy of A Tale of Two Cities and "read" every single word without falter and she could do this in two languages as a bilingual child. But she could not tell me the major themes or summarize A Tale of Two Cities. My kid was bright, but not a genius. There are 6 year old kids out there who actually can tell you the themes in A Tale of Two Cities. That is an exceptional child. The kindergarten curriculum is not just about reading, adding, and subtraction. There is so much more to learn in math, much more complex concepts are covered in today's early childhood curricula.
If your child attends kindergarten in an upper middle class district and can read chapter books independently, can add and subtract up to 100 independently, multiply and divide a bit, he/she will just blend in with the other top students in the class who can do the same. An experienced teacher in one of the better districts is prepared to handle this and yet make the classroom feel inclusive for all of the children. And yes, as the other children mature, who do not have organic disabilities, between the ages of 8-10 years, they will also become independent readers and some will join the top students in the class. Check out developmentalists such as Jean Piaget, Vygotsky, and also check out Howard Gardner. Also check out articles by Ellen Booth Church. I could also recommend more technical authors and research, but they are empirical studies and data.
If there are no other independent readers in your child's kindergarten class, another option some schools use is to send the kindergarten child to a first or second grade class for language arts instruction during the language arts period in the school day. They can then establish friendships with both older children and children their own age. In my nephew's school, he was sent to a grade ahead for math instruction only since his reading was on a par with his classmates.
Gender also matters. By high school, boys who were moderate achievers earlier mature and they start out-performing those high-achieving girls. I am not giving my opinion as a lay person or as a parent, but as someone who has spent years researching this subject.
bbq797 - You've got a tough problem. Sounds like what I had with my son.
Average kids take what seems forever to your child to learn anything. They are s - l - o - w. It can be maddening. Like I said, your child will definitely learn patience. Imagine as an adult your going back to school and taking a course, but the course is geared for people whose apptitude is about 40 IQ points lower than yours. It takes them forever to learn anything and you have to quietly sit there for class after class while the professor drones on and on over the same point(s) they just cannot comprehend. Eventually you'd lose all patience and question why you bothered.
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So-called average children are not s-l-o-w. Maturity and developmentalism is a huge factor in skill acquisition. Many children do not blossom until later. Children who appear to be extremely high functioning early in life do not always maintain their high achieving status when they get older and academic concepts become more complex. With very young children, the differences in social and academic abilities appears to be more acute than in the older grades. That's why, today, kindergarten teachers are usually trained to perform a facilitator function and design tasks and a classroom environment that emphasize problem solving skills, rather than rote learning. Of course, there is variance between schools, teachers, classrooms, etc.
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