Tired of People Stereotyping Hispanic Neighborhoods (Sacramento, Escondido: best school, living in, statistics)

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

My father grew up poor in Camden, New Jersey, in a neighborhood which was predominantly made up of Irish, Italian, Jewish & German immigrant families. But my father's family members and neighbors didn't commit crimes and they didn't allow their neighborhood to look like a ghetto because they were poor. Look at Camden now, after mass "white flight."

Brought on by the closing of the factories. When the shipyards closed in 1967 there was a tidal wave of white flight. (Much like what happened in the Valley 20-25 years later)

Your dad grew up in Camden when jobs were plentiful. That's the reason why it didn't look like a ghetto. (There was Prohibition-era racketeering and Mafia stuff going on in the old Camden, but that didn't affect the inhabitants like modern street gangs do. Capone's business activities didn't affect my grandparents growing up in Chicago.)

On the other side of the river K & A became a full blown ghetto after the factories closed but decades before white flight occurred.

And with your familiarity with the UK I don't have to explain Glasgow, Manchester, and Liverpool to you, or the fact that there's no part of London that's less than 20% white British, even Battersea or Bethnal Green or Brixton.

Economics should not be blamed.

Economics has everything to do with it. If there were more jobs available than things wouldn't be as bad.

A lack of personal pride and community pride is what allows neighborhoods to become this way.

And that lack of personal pride is fueled by a lack of JOBS.

A poor person can still carry a trash bag while they walk up and down their street picking up rubbish.

When many recycling centers have closed, that's harder to do...

A poor person can pick up the phone and call 9-1-1 as easily as anyone else if they see or hear a crime being commited.

If they regard the cops as an oppressive outside force they'd be more reluctant to do so, especially if their neighbors are likely to retaliate.

I doubt your dad's family or neighbors would've called the cops if Joe Dovi's, Danny O'Leary's, or Harry Rosen's guys were carrying out a hit or retaliating against someone not paying protection money. I'm not trying to compare the gangsters from back then to the gangsters today, but you get the picture.

Thrift stores and charitable organizations abound, taking away any excuse for stealing.

Stealing isn't always related to economic status. Look at Giuliani's daughter amongst many other wealthy young women.

[the one]

the country(and its urban areas) 50 years ago to now are apples and oranges.

crime and gangs have always existed. particularly in urban, dense, highly immigrant, low employment areas. thats a fact.

maybe camden was not urban or dense, but today most places that are urban and dense, are also usually lower economic status with a low employment rate [and have higher rates of criminality].

there are many factors to consider. joblessness and economics are big issues in crime ridden areas.

Originally Posted by Cyanna

My father grew up poor in Camden, New Jersey, in a neighborhood which was predominantly made up of Irish, Italian, Jewish & German immigrant families. But my father's family members and neighbors didn't commit crimes and they didn't allow their neighborhood to look like a ghetto because they were poor. Look at Camden now, after mass "white flight." It is ranked as the USA's most dangerous city and is considered unsafe for whites to venture into. The streets look like bomb sites. Crime is rampant.

Economics should not be blamed. A lack of personal pride and community pride is what allows neighborhoods to become this way. A poor person can still carry a trash bag while they walk up and down their street picking up rubbish. A poor person can pick up the phone and call 9-1-1 as easily as anyone else if they see or hear a crime being commited. Thrift stores and charitable organizations abound, taking away any excuse for stealing. People at poverty level may not be able to afford Nike instead of unbranded shoes, but at least they can still cover their feet.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by majoun

I doubt your dad's family or neighbors would've called the cops if Joe Dovi's, Danny O'Leary's, or Harry Rosen's guys were carrying out a hit or retaliating against someone not paying protection money. I'm not trying to compare the gangsters from back then to the gangsters today, but you get the picture.

Really? You think? Actually, my uncle Michael Bogan was killed on Sept. 6, 1934 in Camden, NJ, and details of his death are still locked from public view by the police in Camden. My uncle was killed because he was a witness in the killing of Officer William Feitz. The only question is whether it was the dirty cops who killed him or a member of the Mais-Leganza gang. Witnesses for this case were ending up dead pretty quick within days of the officer's killing. My family have always had integrity and honesty, even while struggling. By the way, my father was born in 1920, and if you think life was good for the lower classes in Camden during those years you are seriously wrong.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by the one

the country(and its urban areas) 50 years ago to now are apples and oranges.

I disagree. Whether its today or 50 years ago, people make the choice to allow their neighborhoods to become blighted, or they decide to have some pride of place, get off their arses and do something about it. Being poor has nothing to do with living in filth.

[Fontucky]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

Being poor has nothing to do with living in filth.

I don't get the excuse-makers. I just flat don't get them.

[Visit a Library]

Originally Posted by Cyanna

I disagree. Whether its today or 50 years ago, people make the choice to allow their neighborhoods to become blighted, or they decide to have some pride of place, get off their arses and do something about it. Being poor has nothing to do with living in filth.

Indeed. For example, how much graffiti, urination on public walls, and people walking around with wife-beater shirts trying to stare down everybody intruding on their "turf" and throwing their garbage on the public street could be found in the Jamestown colony?

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Fontucky

I don't get the excuse-makers. I just flat don't get them.

I don't either, Fon, and it really irks me when some people make excuses for those who choose to live with filthy streets and children are allowed as well as encouraged to be involved in gangs. When I lived in the UK I did not live in one of the best estates (neighborhoods) but most of us did our part to keep our streets clean and some of us were not afraid to report crime. Hell, I stood outside more than once and pointed directly at the perpetrators, which can be a very dangerous thing to do in the UK. There was this little old German lady who would clean her front step every morning and then sweep the walkway and street in front of her home. Then she would walk around picking up trash, and I, along with others, including a big biker dude, would help her. None of us were doing well financially, but we still took pride in where we lived.

Besides, what is stopping welfare recipients and Section 8's from getting out there and pulling some weeds, picking up trash and keeping things tidy? Most aren't interested in finding jobs any way.

[Cyanna]

Originally Posted by Visit a Library

Indeed. For example, how much graffiti, urination on public walls, and people walking around with wife-beater shirts trying to stare down everybody intruding on their "turf" and throwing their garbage on the public street could be found in the Jamestown colony?

Jamestown, like other early American towns, settlements and cities, had certain rules of decency which the community were expected to abide by and enforce. Now, nobody wants to take responsibility for anything, including the fact that they have allowed their neighborhoods to become as bad as they are.

[Vinsanity]

Originally Posted by majoun

Never heard of South Boston or Philly's Fishtown?

There were far more "white ghettos" in the past, most of them changed either due to gentrification or white flight.

If not for the level of immigration in California in the last 30 years there would be some in urban and suburban California.

As for Asians: how about Chinatown in SF? If you need your "model minority" illusions ended, that's pretty much living proof.

Absolutely. Dude pretending there aren't any white ghettoes should probably take a trip to Appalachia someday. Or hell, parts of the inland empire, for that matter.

[Fontucky]

Where in the IE? Lake Smellsomemore?