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The bridges are not THAT bad. The Kennedy can be rough between 730-9 am and 330-530 pm, but not compared to most top 50 metros. The Sherman Minton (New Albany) almost NEVER has traffic. As an Oldham County suburbanite, I doubt you have much experience with the west side of the metro, Tom. Still, your sentiments are representative of the sentiments that "divide" Louisville metro from her nearly 300,000 resident Indiana suburbs.
Wrong, let's talk Sherman Minton recently closed for six months. Let's talk about one or two weekly crashes in hospital curve, or at sb-milepost zero.
I have no clue where you get your info, but man, you certainly do read the sunny-side paper. Your misrepresentation of Jefferson County Public Schools and now this? My agents and I sell real estate all over the entire Louisville Metropolitan Statistical Area (LMSA). The LMSA ranges from Scottsburg to Glendale (I-65 corridor). From Carrollton to Corydon (I-71-I-64w) and from Shelbyville to Ft. Knox. We have absolutely no misunderstanding of commuting challenges because we drive them, too. We also have every reason in the world to want to report great schools in Jefferson County.
One of the things I continue to be frustrated by your reporting is the fact that most people asking for advice about living in the LMSA are people moving to LMSA. They won't typically get to send their children to the select schools. They won't get their child into Male, and won't want to live in the Manual resides area (at least most folks with children won't want to move there), and Eastern and Ballard require the highest priced homes in LMSA to get to live in their resides area.
Wrong, let's talk Sherman Minton recently closed for six months. Let's talk about one or two weekly crashes in hospital curve, or at sb-milepost zero.
I have no clue where you get your info, but man, you certainly do read the sunny-side paper. Your misrepresentation of Jefferson County Public Schools and now this? My agents and I sell real estate all over the entire Louisville Metropolitan Statistical Area (LMSA). The LMSA ranges from Scottsburg to Glendale (I-65 corridor). From Carrollton to Corydon (I-71-I-64w) and from Shelbyville to Ft. Knox. We have absolutely no misunderstanding of commuting challenges because we drive them, too. We also have every reason in the world to want to report great schools in Jefferson County.
One of the things I continue to be frustrated by your reporting is the fact that most people asking for advice about living in the LMSA are people moving to LMSA. They won't typically get to send their children to the select schools. They won't get their child into Male, and won't want to live in the Manual resides area (at least most folks with children won't want to move there), and Eastern and Ballard require the highest priced homes in LMSA to get to live in their resides area.
I am not the one who posts misinformation. I have lived in major metros across the US. You have lived in KY. Unlike you, I do not benefit financially from the sale of homes in Oldham County and other over priced areas of the Louisville MSA. I value your opinion since you are a local realtor, but my opinions and observations stand. Louisville's traffic issues are all concentrated in east and NE Louisville, not the center city and west side of the metro. The I-65 bridge can get clogged. But I-64 Sherman Minton? Almost never. I used to do business daily from New Albany/Corydon. The bridge closing was a "once in a lifetime ordeal" that has been resolved.
Regarding schools, that is a WHOLE other can of worms. There are some excellent schools in JCPS, especially since it is one of the top 20 largest school districts in the USA. Is it all peaches and cream? Absolutely not. Like Chicago, Detroit, or other major city school districts, it has lots of issues, many of them the socio-economic isolation created by realtors like yourself scaring people into moving into far flung exurban areas. It has happened in every city where I have lived.
In Chicago, the realtors tell you, you must live in Naperville with kids.
In Indianapolis, I was told it had to be Carmel.
In Raleigh, it had to be Cary.
In Phoenix, it had to be Scottsdale.
In Cincinnati, it had to be West Chester.
In Orlando, it had to be Lake Mary.
In Louisville, it had to be Oldham County.
Yet, for me, the cool thing about Louisivlle is that it's edge "exclusive" exurb, Oldham County, while having great merit, is still largely rural. You won't find a Carmel, IN sized upscale enclave in La Grange or Crestwood. So folks can choose to live in the racially and much more socially and economically diverse Jefferson County, where there are jobs, shopping, and retail. Or, they can choose the 97% white bedroom communities of Oldham County. To each their own, but I think people deserve a choice, and the rise of the internet has correlated with the great rise in America's older urban cores. And America is better for it!
On the subject of JCPS performance: I read something about a group of black JeffCo pastors suggesting that several of the lowest performing schools in JCPS be converted to charters. Are there charters in Louisville? If not, why not? Is it local or state law?
Also, explain the bussing thing to me. If my kids don't get our "resides" school in JCPS, what kind of distances are we looking at? I have lived in districts as a child and as an adult where bussing was used to spread the burden/share the wealth (depending on your point of view). I have yet to see it really serve the total student population well. So it does make me nervous to feel at the mercy of people who don't know me or my children as to where they are placed.
Last edited by InkFiend; 02-19-2013 at 05:26 PM..
Reason: Additional question
I am not the one who posts misinformation. I have lived in major metros across the US. You have lived in KY. Unlike you, I do not benefit financially from the sale of homes in Oldham County and other over priced areas of the Louisville MSA. I value your opinion since you are a local realtor, but my opinions and observations stand. Louisville's traffic issues are all concentrated in east and NE Louisville, not the center city and west side of the metro. The I-65 bridge can get clogged. But I-64 Sherman Minton? Almost never. I used to do business daily from New Albany/Corydon. The bridge closing was a "once in a lifetime ordeal" that has been resolved.
Regarding schools, that is a WHOLE other can of worms. There are some excellent schools in JCPS, especially since it is one of the top 20 largest school districts in the USA. Is it all peaches and cream? Absolutely not. Like Chicago, Detroit, or other major city school districts, it has lots of issues, many of them the socio-economic isolation created by realtors like yourself scaring people into moving into far flung exurban areas. It has happened in every city where I have lived.
In Chicago, the realtors tell you, you must live in Naperville with kids.
In Indianapolis, I was told it had to be Carmel.
In Raleigh, it had to be Cary.
In Phoenix, it had to be Scottsdale.
In Cincinnati, it had to be West Chester.
In Orlando, it had to be Lake Mary.
In Louisville, it had to be Oldham County.
Yet, for me, the cool thing about Louisivlle is that it's edge "exclusive" exurb, Oldham County, while having great merit, is still largely rural. You won't find a Carmel, IN sized upscale enclave in La Grange or Crestwood. So folks can choose to live in the racially and much more socially and economically diverse Jefferson County, where there are jobs, shopping, and retail. Or, they can choose the 97% white bedroom communities of Oldham County. To each their own, but I think people deserve a choice, and the rise of the internet has correlated with the great rise in America's older urban cores. And America is better for it!
Assumptions are a horrific insult. Your assumptions that I profit from overpriced Oldham County and NE Jefferson County homes is not an insult to me, but to every home buyer who willingly paid the prices. We are still somewhat of a free market in the real estate world. Don't like the price, don't pay it. It's a free choice.
As the principal broker of my firm, I, personally, don't participate in more than 3 or 4 transactions per year, but my firm has agents who work the entire Louisville MSA. Many of our sales are HUD foreclosures in the $25-75,000 price range from Valley Station to Campbellsburg in 2012.
Why are you so racist? Oldham County folks are not. I am not, but you continue to ring the race bell every time you get a chance. I belong to a St. Matthews area church which is highly diverse, am a member of a diverse Rotary Club, actively recruit quality people of every ethnicity.
I also know Sherman Minton. It is as you say, open more than most, but to get to the good schools of Indiana, the distance from UL starts to become greater than the distance to western Oldham County.
Just put yourself in the position of people moving here with children. They won't live in Jefferson Co.
On the subject of JCPS performance: I read something about a group of black JeffCo pastors suggesting that several of the lowest performing schools in JCPS be converted to charters. Are there charters in Louisville? If not, why not? Is it local or state law?
Also, explain the bussing thing to me. If my kids don't get our "resides" school in JCPS, what kind of distances are we looking at? I have lived in districts as a child and as an adult where bussing was used to spread the burden/share the wealth (depending on your point of view). I have yet to see it really serve the total student population well. So it does make me nervous to feel at the mercy of people who don't know me or my children as to where they are placed.
There are some people working to get Charter schools established in Kentucky, but it hasn't happened yet, at least to my knowledge. They have been working on it for a couple years though.
Unfortunately, It doesn't seem likely to pass though. Link
I love Louisville. Grew up there.
But personally, I would not take a chance on the public schools, because of this crazy busing children across town...My son is in college now, we had a chance to move back when he was still in High School, but elected to stay in Lexington....and the school thing was one of the main reasons.
If we moved, I had to decided we would have to homeschool, send him to private school (I am a big supporter of public education though) or move outside of the JCS district...into Oldham Coounty, Shepherdsville, or over to Indiana.
JCPS has suffered a big flight of white upper-middle class professional and managerial parents...who send their kids private.
This is all personal anecdote, but from what I know: my nephew is going through the JCPS system..Brandeis/Myzeek/Manual...in a math/sciences magent program. He and his fellow students are very good in math and science and probably will go on to college to major in engineering, medicine, etc. The JCPS magnet program, combined with motivated parents and some private tutoring, provided a good foundation.
However, his classmates in these schools are mostly non-white...in that they are from Asia (Indian, Pakistan, Mideast, East Asia, etc). So what you have is a program made up of the kids of immigrants (which would include my nephew). While there are white kids in these schools most of them are Jews (not that there is anything wrong with Jews). All these kids are pretty competetive, too, so its a very driven academic environment.
Generally speaking, though, white upper middle class professional and management types in Louisville send their kids private (either KCD, Collegiate, or the Catholic system) or move to Oldahm or Spencer counties.
Last edited by Dayton Sux; 02-20-2013 at 07:27 AM..
From my experience (since I use the bus a lot when I'm in Louisville, riding in from Valley Station), the system is OK only if you want to do things in the city. Then it can be good....esp on weekdays when certain bus lines run on 15 minute headways, which are a good frequency for a mid-sized city like Louisville.
(on edit) The system also has a very long transfer policy so it's entirely possible to make multiple trips on one fair depending on where you are going and the frequency of the routes.
From my experience the busses are heavily used, with standing-room only as you get closer into & out-of downtown.
If you live in suburbia the service is poor. I'm fortunate as there is a bus line near where I stay in Valley Station and I can park and ride, and my destinations are usually in the city, but if you want to go "crosstown" in sububria there are no suburban crosstown busses. There is also very limited service to certain suburban areas (like Prospect) or none at all (like Fairdale).
Last edited by Dayton Sux; 02-20-2013 at 08:14 AM..
JCPS has suffered a big flight of white upper-middle class professional and managerial parents...who send their kids private.
This is all personal anecdote, but from what I know: my nephew is going through the JCPS system..Brandeis/Myzeek/Manual...in a math/sciences magent program. He and his fellow students are very good in math and science and probably will go on to college to major in engineering, medicine, etc. The JCPS magnet program, combined with motivated parents and some private tutoring, provided a good foundation.
However, his classmates in these schools are mostly non-white...in that they are from Asia (Indian, Pakistan, Mideast, East Asia, etc). So what you have is a program made up of the kids of immigrants (which would include my nephew). While there are white kids in these schools most of them are Jews (not that there is anything wrong with Jews). All these kids are pretty competetive, too, so its a very driven academic environment.
Generally speaking, though, white upper middle class professional and management types in Louisville send their kids private (either KCD, Collegiate, or the Catholic system) or move to Oldahm or Spencer counties.
Dayton, from what I have seen, your statements are fairly accurate, although they are very anecdotal.
There are some people working to get Charter schools established in Kentucky, but it hasn't happened yet, at least to my knowledge. They have been working on it for a couple years though.
Unfortunately, It doesn't seem likely to pass though. Link
I love Louisville. Grew up there.
But personally, I would not take a chance on the public schools, because of this crazy busing children across town...My son is in college now, we had a chance to move back when he was still in High School, but elected to stay in Lexington....and the school thing was one of the main reasons.
If we moved, I had to decided we would have to homeschool, send him to private school (I am a big supporter of public education though) or move outside of the JCS district...into Oldham Coounty, Shepherdsville, or over to Indiana.
Thanks for the links and the info, Crazee. I know not all charter schools are created equal, but they can be a great resource for parents as far as school choice. Like you, I am also a big supporter of public education, so reading about JCPS is really disheartening on so many counts.
Thanks for the links and the info, Crazee. I know not all charter schools are created equal, but they can be a great resource for parents as far as school choice. Like you, I am also a big supporter of public education, so reading about JCPS is really disheartening on so many counts.
But...why? It needs to improve yes, but how can you compare one of the largest school districts in the US with many ethnic and international minorities, immigrants, etc, to a white largely rural state like KY? JCPS has some excellent schools and some very poor ones as well.
This list provides old data. A recent article from the CJ states JCPS expects to enroll around 103,000 students this year alone, which apparently is an all time high:
So, compare JCPS to those top 30 districts and you will see, it compares favorably. Maybe not the best, but definitely not the worst.
Do you guys propose that the city isolate West Louisville further by giving it its own poor performing school district, and let the hundreds of suburban cities in Jefferson County run their own schools? This is the format you see in many other rustbelt states like Ohio.
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