State takeover of JCPS (Louisville: loans, home, purchasing)

[Oldhag1]

It looks like Kentucky’s new Board of Education and Commissioner Lewis are going to take over the state’s biggest school system. The JCPS school board has 30 days to contest it. I expect them to do so and think the state may not realize what a big task it represents. I also think it is in retaliation for the strikes, since much of the leadership came from JCPS.

https://insiderlouisville.com/educat...local-control/

[censusdata]

While on many issues I am opposed to Gov. Bevin I do support his efforts to weed out corruption and waste. His blowing up of the U of L administration was long overdue. JCPS has some great schools but on balance it is a disaster and may need the state to rebuild it. Busing simply scares many people who like living in Louisville into bordering counties. Honestly I'm surprised anyone who can't afford private school would even live in Jefferson Co, I certainly wouldn't. I like the model in Hamilton Co OH outside Cincinnati city limits of county subdivision school districts. It prevents excessive distance busing and provides better schools.

[ServoMiff]

Originally Posted by censusdata

While on many issues I am opposed to Gov. Bevin I do support his efforts to weed out corruption and waste. His blowing up of the U of L administration was long overdue. JCPS has some great schools but on balance it is a disaster and may need the state to rebuild it. Busing simply scares many people who like living in Louisville into bordering counties. Honestly I'm surprised anyone who can't afford private school would even live in Jefferson Co, I certainly wouldn't. I like the model in Hamilton Co OH outside Cincinnati city limits of county subdivision school districts. It prevents excessive distance busing and provides better schools.

As a product of JCPS in the 90's, I can personally attest to it. I have friends back from then who are now higher ups at schools in JCPS and man, they make a killing salary-wise, and neither are teachers - more like assistant principals and principals, and they don't even have good school ratings. Not that I want to see them doing poorly, but the results don't warrant the pay - and the same could be said for many of the teachers as well, but that's some kind of American cardinal rule - not to blame teachers for anything.

JCPS admin is an absolute mess, but part of that mess is not hiring quality teachers AND administrators, despite the complaints that many are overpaid.

[Oldhag1]

Originally Posted by ServoMiff

As a product of JCPS in the 90's, I can personally attest to it. I have friends back from then who are now higher ups at schools in JCPS and man, they make a killing salary-wise, and neither are teachers - more like assistant principals and principals, and they don't even have good school ratings. Not that I want to see them doing poorly, but the results don't warrant the pay - and the same could be said for many of the teachers as well, but that's some kind of American cardinal rule - not to blame teachers for anything.

JCPS admin is an absolute mess, but part of that mess is not hiring quality teachers AND administrators, despite the complaints that many are overpaid.

They are struggling to put warm bodies, let alone just qualified teachers, in those schools despite the significantly higher pay. How do you propose they get those high quality teachers?

[censusdata]

Originally Posted by Oldhag1

They are struggling to put warm bodies, let alone just qualified teachers, in those schools despite the significantly higher pay. How do you propose they get those high quality teachers?

That's because in some areas the children are very difficult, even dangerous, to deal with. My wife has a cousin, along with his wife, who are teaching in bad JCPS schools until the state finishes paying off their college loans. Then they planning on moving on to better schools in S IN.

[OldClothesandSuch]

I think this is great. School systems all over the country always complain about not having quality faculty/staff, and they usually allude to pay being one of the key factors.

Its a game that the BOE plays in every district, in every city/town/state. Its never enough.

[Oldhag1]

Originally Posted by OldClothesandSuch

I think this is great. School systems all over the country always complain about not having quality faculty/staff, and they usually allude to pay being one of the key factors.

Its a game that the BOE plays in every district, in every city/town/state. Its never enough.

Pay is a key factor, however it is not the only factor - ask any school system that serves an urban area with pockets of poverty. There are many factors that influence where a high quality teacher will decide to teach: pay/benefits, student population, commute time, contract hours, school administration, district administration, parental support, access to resources, community support, proximity to other school districts, community desirability, community affordability, etc... The big three are pay/benefits, student population, and school administration. If there’s a deficit with one of those three, one or both of the other two better be much better than average or good teachers will either not come there at all or won’t stay there the minute a better opportunity comes up. Sometime even subpar, semi-desperate teachers won’t come or stay and then the downward spiral is hard to stop.

JCPS has a student population problem along with negatives in various other categories. Teachers can go to multiple nearby district with slightly lower pay that do not have all of JCPS’s other negatives. Some of the issue has been created due to Jefferson County’s dubious distinction of having the highest private school participation rate in the nation. The problem is, while higher pay was able to do the trick during The Great Recession when people were considering only pay and job stability, now that the economy has gotten better all but the most desirable school systems are struggling to put qualified teachers in the room because they are losing so many mid-career teachers to industry, along with a smaller pool of potential new teachers.

One thing I can assure you, the state taking over JCPS is NOT going to result in lower teacher salaries. Matter of fact, expect to see selected pay jumps, recruitment scholarships, great loan repayment incentives, early hire bonuses, tutition-free college classes, home purchasing perks, incentives for retiree returns, etc. It is going to cost money, and while the state will make JCPS and its taxpayers fork over part of the cost, you and every other taxpayer in the state will also be paying part of the tab. So, I wouldn’t be too happy about the whole thing, were I you.

[ServoMiff]

Originally Posted by Oldhag1

Pay is a key factor, however it is not the only factor - ask any school system that serves an urban area with pockets of poverty. There are many factors that influence where a high quality teacher will decide to teach: pay/benefits, student population, commute time, contract hours, school administration, district administration, parental support, access to resources, community support, proximity to other school districts, community desirability, community affordability, etc... The big three are pay/benefits, student population, and school administration. If there’s a deficit with one of those three, one or both of the other two better be much better than average or good teachers will either not come there at all or won’t stay there the minute a better opportunity comes up. Sometime even subpar, semi-desperate teachers won’t come or stay and then the downward spiral is hard to stop.

JCPS has a student population problem along with negatives in various other categories. Teachers can go to multiple nearby district with slightly lower pay that do not have all of JCPS’s other negatives. Some of the issue has been created due to Jefferson County’s dubious distinction of having the highest private school participation rate in the nation. The problem is, while higher pay was able to do the trick during The Great Recession when people were considering only pay and job stability, now that the economy has gotten better all but the most desirable school systems are struggling to put qualified teachers in the room because they are losing so many mid-career teachers to industry, along with a smaller pool of potential new teachers.

One thing I can assure you, the state taking over JCPS is NOT going to result in lower teacher salaries. Matter of fact, expect to see selected pay jumps, recruitment scholarships, great loan repayment incentives, early hire bonuses, tutition-free college classes, home purchasing perks, incentives for retiree returns, etc. It is going to cost money, and while the state will make JCPS and its taxpayers fork over part of the cost, you and every other taxpayer in the state will also be paying part of the tab. So, I wouldn’t be too happy about the whole thing, were I you.

Busing needs to end - period. Then pay the teachers in the western end of town higher and provide those incentives as mentioned - teachers at Ballard wouldn't deserve a higher pay rate to Central or Shawnee if they have easier students to teach with fewer problem kids. It cuts down on the spreading out of the problems and would result in better rated school systems that would then rival or beat the private schools, which would then cause parents to reconsider spending the money on tuition and send their higher achieving students back to JCPS. This would also reduce the budget of the school system as well as teachers and administrators wouldn't need to be paid highly when the majority of the city can operate as a well oiled machine and higher expenses were concentrated.

[Oldhag1]

Originally Posted by ServoMiff

Busing needs to end - period. Then pay the teachers in the western end of town higher and provide those incentives as mentioned - teachers at Ballard wouldn't deserve a higher pay rate to Central or Shawnee if they have easier students to teach with fewer problem kids. It cuts down on the spreading out of the problems and would result in better rated school systems that would then rival or beat the private schools, which would then cause parents to reconsider spending the money on tuition and send their higher achieving students back to JCPS. This would also reduce the budget of the school system as well as teachers and administrators wouldn't need to be paid highly when the majority of the city can operate as a well oiled machine and higher expenses were concentrated.

That would be a huge step in the right direction. I agree with everything you are saying.