Help with purchasing land in Maine in Aroostook Tree Growth (Washington: real estate, insurance)

[Siguna]

Hello All,
I have been a lurker here for about a month. I want to buy a piece of land in Aroostook Co. It's owned by an out-of-state real estate broker in N.Carolina. I'm a Spokaner (Eastern WA). I've been studying the Tree Growth policies of your state. From what gov agency can I find his tree growth plan? And are there any kinds of scam sorts of things going on with out of state sellers? I plan to do a title search, but there may be other things I should know about also. Thanks for your help.

[7th generation]

Ask the seller for the Tree Growth plan. It has to be performed by a licensed Forester and sent to the state.
As long as you do not plan on developing more than an acre, you're good to go.
I'm placing two more lots in Tree Growth right now due to the downturn and realize the savings will buy me a few more months.
Don't fret, a title search will reveal any skeletons.

[kellysmith]

I would vote to actually walk the land before buying anything. If it's being handled by a realtor from North Carolina, I'd bet it's part of a parcel that has been cut over quite hard and probably will take years before you can recognize it as woodland. I'd worry just as much about the quality of the land as the title. The internet has made it easy to buy land in some far distant land, but it's made it easy to unload cut-over swampland as well...and I've seen pictures taken of the biggest wasteland you can imagine that makes it look just beautiful.

[Siguna]

I think I see, and perhaps this is why the land seems so inexpensive. From what I can understand, when you put a parcel into Tree Growth, you’re telling the state you’ll be using it for wood products (as opposed to Open Land, where you agree to let nature have it). But the plan could have called for the trees to be harvested. In other words, just because GoogleEarth shows trees doesn’t mean they weren’t all cut a couple months after the satellite pics were taken. Is that right, or am misunderstanding Tree Growth?

I’ve asked him directly about getting a copy of his tree plan, and he seemed to gloss over it. His suggested contract does state clearly “This land is in Maine Tree Growth” and elsewhere “as is, where is” and that me, the Buyer, is responsible for keeping the plan up to date. It bothered me that he didn’t answer my questions clearly, and that’s why I was wondering if I could find his tree plan somewhere on my own. I see I should make it a contingency of my offer.

One person I’d considered buying land from sent me a bit of drawn map marked “low spot” and “wet spot” and “building site” in a couple of places. So perhaps an example of where the trees may have been removed and left marshland?

One of the things the broker said to me was that in Maine you have the right to cross any land to access a river (brook, I think you call it there) to fish (I had wanted a parcel where water runs through). He owns the land to the north, south and west of the parcel, and to the east is Canada. The brook (Tracy Brook, I believe) crosses his land west of the parcel, which is also where the deeded access crosses. So he says even if he sells the land, I would still have rights to get to the brook to fish, even if not spelled out in the paperwork. I have not been able to find out whether or not that’s true; does anyone here know?

Also, here in Washington there’s a clearcut (forty feet, I think?) along the Canadian border in many areas. Do you have that also in Maine, or else if you go on walkabout, should you be sure to bring your passport? :-)

On the one hand, this seems like a good opportunity, on the other, maybe it’s too good to be true, which is why I’m being so cautious. I’ve never bought property sight unseen, and I wish I could go and see it, but by the time I’m able it may have already been sold. (Especially after coming onto this site, which makes it seem as if everyone in their right mind is planning a mass migration to poor unsuspecting little Maine :-) My second thought has been to buy a small house there as a sort of base camp while I narrow my search, but I’m worried about not being able to sell it when I want.

All of the parcels I’ve been considering are near Hodgdon. The one I was liking is in Jackins Settlement. Is anyone here familiar with the area?

[Northern Maine Land Man]

You can develop any portion of your land. It can be one acre, 20 acres or the whole thing. If you remove any portion from the tree growth program it can not be less than an acre. When you take out an acre or more for development you must pay a fee based on the value of the land today, the valuation under the tree growth program and how long the parcel has been in the tree growth program. The worst case scenario is that you could pay as much as 30% of the present valuation of the portion you remove from the tree growth program.

Always do a title search!

The value of the land depends on many things.
Size of the parcel
Year round access
Power at the parcel
If not, how far from power?
Any swamp?
Size of the trees
Kind of trees
How recently harvested
Any fields? Fields are valuable.
Town tax rate
Does the town have a comprehensive plan?
How is the land zoned?
Does it have any deer yards or other natural limitation?
A big one is, when the tree growth plan expires. It could be three days after you buy it.

That's a lot of info to gather. Do you have anybody representing you?

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Siguna

Hello All,
I have been a lurker here for about a month. I want to buy a piece of land in Aroostook Co. It's owned by an out-of-state real estate broker in N.Carolina. I'm a Spokaner (Eastern WA). I've been studying the Tree Growth policies of your state. From what gov agency can I find his tree growth plan? And are there any kinds of scam sorts of things going on with out of state sellers? I plan to do a title search, but there may be other things I should know about also. Thanks for your help.

Welcome.

An owner hires a certified forester to write a plan, that plan belongs to the land owner. The Forester will sign a document saying that such a plan exists. But no government agency has a copy of it.

When you buy land in Maine, you could hire a lawyer to do the 'transfer' for you which would include the deed, title search and insurance. All for around $200.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by 7th generation

Ask the seller for the Tree Growth plan. It has to be performed by a licensed Forester and sent to the state.
As long as you do not plan on developing more than an acre, you're good to go.
I'm placing two more lots in Tree Growth right now due to the downturn and realize the savings will buy me a few more months.
Don't fret, a title search will reveal any skeletons.

Respectfully I think your in error.

The forester sends a document to LURC saying a plan exists.

The plan stays with the land owner.

[Submariner]

Originally Posted by Siguna

I think I see, and perhaps this is why the land seems so inexpensive. From what I can understand, when you put a parcel into Tree Growth, you’re telling the state you’ll be using it for wood products (as opposed to Open Land, where you agree to let nature have it). But the plan could have called for the trees to be harvested. In other words, just because GoogleEarth shows trees doesn’t mean they weren’t all cut a couple months after the satellite pics were taken. Is that right, or am misunderstanding Tree Growth?

I once lived in Bremerton, Washington state does forests differently than Maine does.

Treegrowth is a tax status, where you let nature re-plant hopefully to come up in trees. Perhaps of a commercial value.

In Washington it is required by law to re-plant trees after every clear cut. Not so in Maine.

... I’ve asked him directly about getting a copy of his tree plan, and he seemed to gloss over it. His suggested contract does state clearly “This land is in Maine Tree Growth” and elsewhere “as is, where is”

Red Flag!

... and that me, the Buyer, is responsible for keeping the plan up to date. It bothered me that he didn’t answer my questions clearly, and that’s why I was wondering if I could find his tree plan somewhere on my own. I see I should make it a contingency of my offer.

When you do buy treegrowth land, you must buy a new plan within a year, anyway.

But seeing the previous plan would be nice.

It sounds like he does not have one. Hmm.

[kellysmith]

Siguna,
Access rights are covered by something called Great Ponds Act (or something like that) Basically you have the right to cross "unimproved land" on foot to access a Great Pond. A great pond is described as having 10 acres of surface area. That doesn't mean you can cross improved land. Fishing Tracy Brook wouldn't be a problem. There are quite a few woods roads that cross that particular brook.
I don't think you will find much ground down in that area that hasn't been cut over pretty hard. I would suggest finding a broker to act in your behalf. A buyer's broker has your interest as the buyer in mind. There are plenty of brokers around, and even a pretty good one who has posted on this thread. (hope I don't get banned for saying so...) It would be well worth a few hundred dollars to have someone represent you I would think.
The area you are talking about is pretty wet. Not that you couldn't find a wonderful piece of ground in that area, but it's mostly softwood and lowlands. In fact there is one little tidbit of information about that area. Three different watersheds meet in that area. The Penobscot watershed, St John watershed, and St. Croix watershed all meet at one point in that area. Picture three rain drops falling 5 ft apart, one flows to the St Croix river, one the Penobscot, and one the St. John if they fall at that spot where the different watersheds meet.
As for the border, there is a swath cut with monuments marking the actual border. The Boundary Commission works full time keeping the border area cleared of brush and marked. The markers aren't all that close, but you will know where the border is.
I'm not sure what cut over land is going for, but it used to go for 2 to 3 hundred an acre. That might be low now, because of the internet age, but again I recommend getting a broker to represent you or look at the ground yourself.

[kellysmith]

Siguna,
Thought of something else to add. Tracy Brook used to be one of the best trout brooks in the area. Quite a bit of clear cutting in that area opened up the brook to sunlight, and the water temperature became higher and it's now not so good for fishing. There are still spring holes where you can get some fish, but overall, the quality of that particular brook was affected by logging. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of fish to catch in that area, but not like the old days.