How is Maryland a southern state? (Baltimore: living, move, authority)

[BajanYankee]

I'll do my best to sum up a decade's worth of arguments and counterarguments on the topic.

Maryland was historically and culturally Southern
But it has more in common with its neighbors to the North today

Maryland was a slave state
But half the Black population was free before the Civil War

Maryland was on the verge of secession and had to be put under martial law
Maryland didn't secede, though, and remained in the Union

Maryland has Confederate monuments
Maryland has Union monuments too

Maryland had a large, tobacco-based agrarian economy
Connecticut grows tobacco too

Maryland has the largest Black population by % outside of the Deep South
Maryland has more Germans by % than anywhere in the South

Maryland was a member of the Southern Conference, the precursor to the SEC
Maryland is a current member of the Big 10, which is a "northern" conference

Maryland was a Jim Crow state
Jim Crow wasn't as pervasive in Maryland, which is now one of the most progressive states

40% of Marylanders say they live in a Southern state
60% of Marylanders didn't say they live in a Southern state

[MidValleyDad]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Awesome. I'm glad you found your answer. Close thread please.

Please

[skeddy]

the south begins below Fredricksburg Va

[ZeroiaSD]

FiveThirtyEight Did an article about what states are in the South, using opinion surveys.

Only 6% of self-identified Southerners thought Maryland was a Southern state, and under 25% of everyone did.

[Floridian723]

Originally Posted by Millenial Hippy

I would use that term as well, for NOVA, MD, DE. eastern PA and NJ.

you can't split up states. NOVA is Southern, the rest are all in Mid Atl.

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by Millenial Hippy

Please note that I'm not trying to be argumentative, I genuinely just do not understand why Maryland is counted as a "southern state". I do not think it should be and below let me lay out my reasons:
First-the Civil war:
Most estimates of the number of Union soldiers from Maryland are between 60 and 65000,with between 25 and 30,000 for the confederacy. That's a ratio of 2 to 1 or greater.
It is often pointed out that Maryland had slaves up until the passage of the 13th amendment. This would be a fair point were it not also true that slavery was also legal in Missouri, New Jersey, Delaware and West Virginia at that time, and none of those are considered Southern states (though I would argue West Virginia could be considered borderline southern, along with KY and OK).

And then there's accent/dialect: I know people from Baltimore, Annapolis, and Prince George's county and they all sound exactly like members of my family from Delaware county PA (or in the case of the guy from Baltimore even South Jersey). None of them has any trace of a southern accent.

Also worth pointing out are cultural differences between Maryland and the South. Maryland has a below-average percentage of Evangelical protestants, much lower than any Southern state. In fact, according to Gallup and the Washington Post, both Catholics and mainline protestants outnumber evangelicals (which isn't even true in Louisiana, the most Catholic southern state). Maryland does not have the same slow pace of life as Tennessee, Georgia, or Mississippi; everyone is as fast and snappy as people from New Jersey and New York. Also, on a slightly more trivial note, Marylanders do not drink sweet tea, which they do in Southern West Virginia, Missouri, and Kansas).



And the last nail in the coffin, for me, is politics: Maryland's political development is almost the opposite of the South. It was not part of the solid south (in fact for much of the early 20th century it was a Republican stronghold), it has long been a liberal state, and it has not been won by any Republican since George HW Bush in 1988. The last time TN, AR, or LA went Democrat was for fellow southerner Bill Clinton in 1996, and VA and FL only go Democrat because of Northern transplants.

So, with all this in mind, how exactly is Maryland a southern state?

WV was part of VA at the start of the civil war. However northern parts of it especially the part the jets way north is not southern. Missouri was more southern at one time, but today Missouri still is partially southern as part of the state is still geographically and culturally southern. About 25 percent of Missouri is located in the south and another 25 percent is a transition zone like southern Indiana that is a mix of southern and Midwest influence. Missouri had an increasing slave population at the state of the civil war and very nearly came under confederate control if it wasn't for the union invading so fast to go after MO lawmakers. On paper the Confederacy claimed Missouri as a state. They never claimed Maryland.

I live here in Florida and a lot of the state is NOT southern anymore. Also a lot of Hispanics down here vote democrat too.

Regarding Bill Clinton in 92 and 96 Ross Perot stole a lot of his votes which is why he won a number of states that would today typically go republican. I'm from Missouri and if it wasn't for Ross Perot, Clinton would have lost in Missouri both elections if you gave a chunk of those votes to Dole or Bush instead since a lot of conservatives chose Perot over a Neocon.

Florida voting has always been slightly different than the rest of the south for years due to outside influences. Hell back in the 1930s Florida elected a Jewish man from New York City as their governor lol.

VA, FL different from the rest of the border and southern states when it comes to voting. I consider the border states MO, KY, WV. MD and DE are basically part of the northeast now.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

VA, FL different from the rest of the border and southern states when it comes to voting. I consider the border states MO, KY, WV. MD and DE are basically part of the northeast now.

Wait, what? MD and DE I can understand (although mid-Atlantic is the best designation IMO), while WV is very, very questionable (basically it is one state that belongs in more than one region). But no way are MO or KY Northeastern, not by any stretch of the imagination. MO is a Midwestern state (Northern but not Northeastern) and KY is the Upper South, bordering the Midwest.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Wait, what? MD and DE I can understand (although mid-Atlantic is the best designation IMO), while WV is very, very questionable (basically it is one state that belongs in more than one region). But no way are MO or KY Northeastern, not by any stretch of the imagination. MO is a Midwestern state (Northern but not Northeastern) and KY is the Upper South, bordering the Midwest.

Check out the punctuation. I think the poster is saying MD and DE are the Northeast, the rest are border states.

I consider the border states MO, KY, WV.

MD and DE are basically part of the northeast now.

(I broke up the two sentences to make it clearer.)

[MOforthewin]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Check out the punctuation. I think the poster is saying MD and DE are the Northeast, the rest are border states.



(I broke up the two sentences to make it clearer.)

Correct. Notice the period at the end of WV.

MD and DE have more in common with the northeast now. The modern border states are MO, KY, WV, OK.

Missouri while 25 percent is southern, 25 percent is a transition zone of both cultures and the other 50 percent Midwestern though but that is still a big enough chunk that I'd put it in the border category still. WV leans southern although the northern portions of that state are not southern such as that long narrow part that jets way north to within 100 miles of the great lakes isn't southern. Kentucky is the most southern border state today. I consider it a southern state overall though. In my opinion a border state can lay either way. States like KY WV are more southern while Missouri leans more Midwest in modern times and is a more Midwestern state overall. Indiana and IL don't have enough southern influence to really be considered partially southern in their southern parts of their states like MO is.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Check out the punctuation. I think the poster is saying MD and DE are the Northeast, the rest are border states.

Originally Posted by MOforthewin

Correct. Notice the period at the end of WV.

MD and DE have more in common with the northeast now. The modern border states are MO, KY, WV, OK.

Ah yes, I see now...my mistake.