Real estate: law re disclosures? (homes, landscaping, buyers)

[relocate37]

Originally Posted by 3cents

I have not gone to see that property, but a colonial, 4 bedrooms, walk-up attic, and side street, it is underpriced, at its current listed price. I'll be curious to know its final selling price.

Oh, yes, we knew it was really underpriced. How much underpriced, I'm not sure. It did have these problems:

1. I'm not a "kitichen guy," but the kitchen clearly needed to be gutted and replaced. That's $40K right there
2. The house was heated with oil. That's terribly expensive. So either you're stuck with that, or you'd have to install a gas furnace. We called the gas company; more than $2K to bring the gas line to the foundation.
3. The house seemed like it was in pretty good condition, but there was at least some water damage in the ceiling of an upstairs bathroom due to a roof issue. And while it seemed like there was probably no major problems lurking undernneath the wood shingle siding, it wasn't in the best of shape.
4. Had a sump pump, so right there that means there are drainage issues.

We figured with the kitchen drawing $40K+, we'd end up putting in $100K. Maybe that's too conservative an estimate. But even if it was, that kind of work requires some supervision, and we figured in a pain-in-the-a** figure of $20K, since we're very busy (both have full time jobs, plus small children).

With all that, plus our budget, our "let someone else have it if they want it that bad!" number was $750K, which was 50 over asking.

I'd be interested in knowing what you think about the various neighborhoods in Winchester. That neighborhood was really nice insofar as it was a quiet street with other families with kids, but the home values seemed like they were all over the map.

[Parsec]

Originally Posted by mmyk72

The mold was not just a localized problem. It was the entire attic due to improperly putting insulation in the attic (which prevented any ventilation) years ago. Every inch of the roof sheathing (wood boards on the other side of the shingles) was black.

I'm somewhat educated about mold and not scared by terms like 'toxic mold' and things like that. However, I'd rather just let it go because when it comes time to sell, the next buyer may not be as calm about buying a house that had major 'mold remediation'.

Also, eventhough the surface mold can be treated, mold spores are already everywhere in abnormally high concentrations in that attic. The remediation wasn't going to remove all the mold and spores from the roof sheathing (which was all black), nor touch the insulation. The scope of work was painting over the mold with a biocide paint, HEPA vac what they can, and call it a day. I won't be comfortable with that and whenever I have allergies, I would only wonder if it's the mold from the attic, being scattered into the house by the HVAC system and duct work in that attic.

Thanks, this alleviates my concerns. Our mold situation wasn't nearly as bad - just the parts above the bathrooms had mold (about 1/4 of the attic). The mold remediator washed the wood sheathing with bleach and warrantied it for 10 years. I believe the sellers paid $1200 for this service.

[relocate37]

Originally Posted by MikePRU

"the gatekeeper" what does that mean?

I assume he meant the agent.

Originally Posted by MikePRU

Skimping on the inspection is penny wise and pound foolish.

I agree---if nothing else, the thing could look great but in fact be a thriving termite colony---but it's hard to deal with this issue when there are so many people who are foolish enough to waive inspections.

We looked at another house just a couple hours ago and will try to get a pre-offer inspection done.

[Parsec]

Originally Posted by relocate37

Oh, yes, we knew it was really underpriced. How much underpriced, I'm not sure. It did have these problems:

1. I'm not a "kitichen guy," but the kitchen clearly needed to be gutted and replaced. That's $40K right there
2. The house was heated with oil. That's terribly expensive. So either you're stuck with that, or you'd have to install a gas furnace. We called the gas company; more than $2K to bring the gas line to the foundation.
3. The house seemed like it was in pretty good condition, but there was at least some water damage in the ceiling of an upstairs bathroom due to a roof issue. And while it seemed like there was probably no major problems lurking undernneath the wood shingle siding, it wasn't in the best of shape.
4. Had a sump pump, so right there that means there are drainage issues.

How is the house being heated with oil a problem? Half the houses around here are heated with oil.

[relocate37]

Originally Posted by Parsec

How is the house being heated with oil a problem? Half the houses around here are heated with oil.

Because it's expensive as hell compared to gas.

[mmyk72]

Originally Posted by Parsec

Thanks, this alleviates my concerns. Our mold situation wasn't nearly as bad - just the parts above the bathrooms had mold (about 1/4 of the attic). The mold remediator washed the wood sheathing with bleach and warrantied it for 10 years. I believe the sellers paid $1200 for this service.

Sounds like you had a bath vent that just dumps the moist air into the attic instead of terminating out to the exterior?

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by relocate37

I assume he meant the agent.

I assumed that as well. Contrary to what might be believed by the public more often than not it's the homeowner who is withholding the information and not the agent.

Originally Posted by relocate37

I agree---if nothing else, the thing could look great but in fact be a thriving termite colony---but it's hard to deal with this issue when there are so many people who are foolish enough to waive inspections.

We looked at another house just a couple hours ago and will try to get a pre-offer inspection done.

Home inspections don't catch everything. In fact, I've seen plenty of inspectors say plenty of things that are just plain untrue. I had an inspection this morning where the inspector said the town doesn't allow homes on septic to have garbage disposals. 100% not true, sorry.

Anyway, an inspection is still a great starting point for getting an idea of the condition of a home. I wouldn't bypass it unless I was the guy who won mega millions last night.

[3cents]

Originally Posted by relocate37

Oh, yes, we knew it was really underpriced. How much underpriced, I'm not sure. It did have these problems:

1. I'm not a "kitichen guy," but the kitchen clearly needed to be gutted and replaced. That's $40K right there
2. The house was heated with oil. That's terribly expensive. So either you're stuck with that, or you'd have to install a gas furnace. We called the gas company; more than $2K to bring the gas line to the foundation.
3. The house seemed like it was in pretty good condition, but there was at least some water damage in the ceiling of an upstairs bathroom due to a roof issue. And while it seemed like there was probably no major problems lurking undernneath the wood shingle siding, it wasn't in the best of shape.
4. Had a sump pump, so right there that means there are drainage issues.

As long as the kitchen isn't falling apart, I think most buyers look past that. Oil doesn't really factor into most offers. A sump pump doesn't necessarily mean there is drainage issues. It might only be operating under very heavy rain, i.e. a few times a year. So of all those, probably only point 3 is a potential issue.

In highly competitive towns, do sellers actually agree to pre-offer inspection? I'll be surprised if they do.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by 3cents

A sump pump doesn't necessarily mean there is drainage issues. It might only be operating under very heavy rain, i.e. a few times a year. So of all those, probably only point 3 is a potential issue..

I agree. A sump pump does not automatically mean drainage issues. I have a builder that I work with who puts sumps in every house they build. Why . . . because they once got water in their own basement and it doesn't cost much to put one in. So, they do it without regard to need.

Originally Posted by 3cents

In highly competitive towns, do sellers actually agree to pre-offer inspection? I'll be surprised if they do.

Not that I'm aware of. However, some inspectors have told me they've been paid by potential buyers to show up at the open house and give the property a look. It's not as thorough as a full inspection, but it gives the buyer a little more peace of mind.

[relocate37]

Originally Posted by 3cents

As long as the kitchen isn't falling apart, I think most buyers look past that.

I don't quite understand. If you're comparing two houses that would be priced the same, except that one needs a complete kitchen renovation and the other doesn't, then IMHO the value of the one that needs a renovation should be that much lower, to you.

While averaging over all prospective buyers is in general hard to do, it's very difficult to believe that anyone buying that house at that price point isn't going to renovate the kitchen.

Matters might be different if the buyer can cut costs, e.g. is themselves a GC.