What is New England?

[Cloudship]

Doesn't matter what charm it has - it is still New England. Now, you might be able to argue that certain towns/cities in Connecticut might be more appropriate to be in New York, but state-wise and until they are ceded they are still New England.

[boulevardofdef]

Originally Posted by Cloudship

Doesn't matter what charm it has - it is still New England. Now, you might be able to argue that certain towns/cities in Connecticut might be more appropriate to be in New York, but state-wise and until they are ceded they are still New England.

One hundred percent agreed. I don't like talk of "real New England" much more than I like talk of "real America" (which generally excludes New England). It's all the real America, and it's all the real New England. New England is Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine and Vermont. If the Yankees relocated to Stamford, that wouldn't make Stamford less New England -- it would make New England a region where the Yankees and the Red Sox play. Places are always changing in character, and New England is no different.

Culturally, Rhode Island is very different from Vermont. Rhode Island is the most Catholic state in America, tied with New Jersey and Connecticut for the most heavily Italian population, increasingly non-white. It's the second-densest state in America. Relatively little of it is rural. It's the Ocean State. Vermont is old-school Protestant, about as white as it gets, heavily rural, landlocked. But most people acknowledge that both states are very New England. Likewise, Connecticut is different in character from both, but that contributes to New England's character -- it doesn't disqualify Connecticut.

Growing up in New York, my family made frequent trips to New England, and I always got a certain feeling once we crossed the Connecticut border. You're clearly not in New York anymore, and you're definitely very far from my native Long Island, spiritually if not geographically.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Ive got a few Different ways to divy up New England:

The biggest and most important division is between MA CT RI and NH VT ME. northern New England and southern new England are culturally very different. As time has wore on the urban northeastern influence had creeped into southern New England and made it one of the most urban areas in the country, with high immigration levels, Catholicism, density and inter connectedness. MA CT and RI are muuuuch muuch more populated than northern New England and muuuch muuch more diverse. They are still very New Englandy for their architectural build, democratic politics, shorelines, greenery, and general frugality.

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Ive got a few Different ways to divy up New England:

The biggest and most important division is between MA CT RI and NH VT ME. northern New England and southern new England are culturally very different. As time has wore on the urban northeastern influence had creeped into southern New England and made it one of the most urban areas in the country, with high immigration levels, Catholicism, density and inter connectedness. MA CT and RI are muuuuch muuch more populated than northern New England and muuuch muuch more diverse. They are still very New Englandy for their architectural build, democratic politics, shorelines, greenery, and general frugality.

I think so too. You go to Vermont or New Hampshire or Maine and you can still get some of the rural flavor. You go to most of MA, CT, and RI and you can get the urban vibe. Not ALL of southern NE has lost the rural settings but moreso than northern New England. Southern New England has had the immigration and the development while in the north it is not so much changed. Sooner or later all the rural and old fashioned elements will be lost but I hope New England never turns into what some other states look like--endless strip malls and cookie cutter houses. I guess where there are mountains, as in VT and NH that can never happen.

[missionhill]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I think so too. You go to Vermont or New Hampshire or Maine and you can still get some of the rural flavor. You go to most of MA, CT, and RI and you can get the urban vibe. Not ALL of southern NE has lost the rural settings but moreso than northern New England. Southern New England has had the immigration and the development while in the north it is not so much changed. Sooner or later all the rural and old fashioned elements will be lost but I hope New England never turns into what some other states look like--endless strip malls and cookie cutter houses. I guess where there are mountains, as in VT and NH that can never happen.

All true but nothing new about any of that. All those run-down little and medium size cities in southern New England started becoming urban places in the early 1800s. Many of these places are on rivers and water power to drive manufacturing equipment was the impetus for growth. They needed lots of labor and immigration provided a big supply. I wouldn't say the urban influence crept into southern New England from anyplace adjacent-- it originated in southern N. E., as much as anything. Southern N.E. today is more urban than New York state and it was more urban early than New Jersey. New Jersey takes the urbanization prize now but a lot of that is due to highways and sprawl; if you go back before 1920 a lot of NJ was pretty rural, whereas that period, 1820-1920, is the heyday of industrial towns and industrial growth in New England, especially southern N. E.

[nei]

Agreed.

The idea that rural New England is more real, and urban New England is something new is odd. Historically, New England was the most urban region of the country; urbanized first and industrialized first. The old cities and towns make it distinctive.

With the accent, architecture and oldest towns and cities, eastern New England feels the most distinctive

[in_newengland]

Originally Posted by nei

Agreed.

The idea that rural New England is more real, and urban New England is something new is odd. Historically, New England was the most urban region of the country; urbanized first and industrialized first. The old cities and towns make it distinctive.

With the accent, architecture and oldest towns and cities, eastern New England feels the most distinctive

It's all New England, the rural areas and the old mill towns. But rural came first and is most nostalgic to most people. The industrialization would have been gradual at first, with sawmills, blacksmith shops, water wheels, etc. then with mass immigration in the 19th C, came true industry as we usually think of it.

But I do think that tourists from other parts of the country must still think of the quintessential New England town with the white church and the village green when they think of New England. Probably they don't know about our gritty old mill towns so much, if at all.

[Cloudship]

By "New England" in a style sense you can mean many different characteristics. You have Colonial New England, you have Maple Trees and Granite New England, you have early Industrial revolution New England, and you have whaling and tall ships New England among others. And those styles fall much less along political boundaries as they do physical geographic ones.

Still, I don't think that is all there is to define what New England is. When I think of New England, first of all there is the political boundary, i.e. that isolated part of the country insulated by (or from) the rest of the country by New York, which culturally is more connected with its roots in Canada and Europe. Then there is that pragmatic mindset both personally and politically. And then there is a more traditional view on things like freedom and religion. Lastly, I think of New England as being more connected with its own history and place, and not being as transient as most other parts of the country. Thinks like family and history and home have different (subtle, but different) meanings here than out west.

[NewEnglander94]

Originally Posted by Boston_Burbs

If you don't get NESN on your cable package or get your local news from another non-New England State, you are not part of New England.

I'm looking at you Fairfield/Litchfield CT, and Berkshire County, MA. Maybe west or Rt. 7 in VT too

I didn't know that is how the Census Beaureu divided their regions. By sports and/or TV stations?

[NewEnglander94]

Originally Posted by boulevardofdef

Culturally, Rhode Island is very different from Vermont. Rhode Island is the most Catholic state in America, tied with New Jersey and Connecticut for the most heavily Italian population, increasingly non-white. It's the second-densest state in America. Relatively little of it is rural. It's the Ocean State. Vermont is old-school Protestant, about as white as it gets, heavily rural, landlocked. But most people acknowledge that both states are very New England. Likewise, Connecticut is different in character from both, but that contributes to New England's character -- it doesn't disqualify Connecticut.

Growing up in New York, my family made frequent trips to New England, and I always got a certain feeling once we crossed the Connecticut border. You're clearly not in New York anymore, and you're definitely very far from my native Long Island, spiritually if not geographically.

Thanks you! I see far too many people claiming that they just come up with their own borders. New England is 6 states, from Greenwich, CT to Caribou, ME. We are over 400 years into our history, which is a lot more than most other states can claim, so yeah, there will be more densely populated areas, however, the six states (and yes, that includes all of the 6 states) are considered New England. It's not subjective, its objective.