Has traffic gotten worse lately? (Boston, Worcester: earthquakes, inspections, place to live)

[Dm84]

I wasn't really trying to disagree with you. More like adding to what you were saying.

[lrfox]

Originally Posted by wolfgang239

I agree. Just pointing out that it was not extremely rare to find cars that could get 30mpg a decade ago which you stated.

Fair enough, I picked a poor example to illustrate my point.

Originally Posted by impala096

I was only responding to this sentence…



Lrfox was implying that drivers don’t pay a toll to drive. Whether or not the gas tax fully funds the roads wasn’t the debate. You are pushing this conversation in another direction entirely.

I wasn't implying that. I was trying to illustrate that the correlation between gas tax and transit fares isn't accurate. When you pay a transit fare, you are paying a user fee for a single use. It's pretty straightforward. Paying a toll on a highway works the same way.

The gas tax isn't a user fee. That money goes to state and federal roadways (and in many cases, more than just roadways). It doesn't pay for local roads which make up the vast majority of MA roadways. Moreover, the MA gas tax is below the national average and hasn't been raised since the early 90s whereas transit fares have been raised multiple times in that span and are currently under consideration for a hike again.

Latent/Induced demand is a concept that applies to both mass transit and automobile use (google it). We're at a point, especially in Massachusetts, where it's extremely difficult to do anything to expand roadway capacity significantly. It makes sense to make major infrastructure improvements to our transit system to increase capacity. While I do agree that our trains will still be crowded (due to the induced demand), that's how transit is supposed to work. Unlike highways, if you're trains and buses aren't full at peak times, you either have an inefficient system or you've vastly overbuilt. Packed trains mean more fares coming in to offset operating costs.

If you polled drivers (or even folks on this forum), many, many, many of them would prefer taking public transit if the network worked for them. The commuter rail network is nice, but the frequencies and fares are prohibitive to many. The rapid transit network is too prone to delays and breakdowns for many. It also doesn't cover the outer reaches of the metro area like DC's Metro or San Francisco's BART network and the commuter rail isn't a good substitute for the reasons mentioned above. Traffic will never be a non-issue here. However, major improvements to the transit network would give commuters more options and help offset some of the demand on the roadways.

[impala096]

If lrfox truly understood the concept of latent/induced demand they wouldn’t mischaracterize the effects better transit would have on vehicular traffic.

Originally Posted by lrfox

Better transit takes more cars off the road. It reduces wear and tear on roads, traffic, and decreases demand for fuel. good public transit is the best thing in the world for people who love to drive.

In their utopian world, this might happen… in the real world it doesn’t work this way. Google pipe-dream.

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by impala096

If lrfox truly understood the concept of latent/induced demand they wouldn’t mischaracterize the effects better transit would have on vehicular traffic.

In their utopian world, this might happen… in the real world it doesn’t work this way. Google pipe-dream.

I think it's a somewhat more open question than you make it out to be:

Public Transportation Does Relieve Traffic Congestion, Just Not Everywhere - CityLab

Public Transportation Relieves Traffic Congestion

Of course pro-transit entities are going to report pro-transit reports, just as anti-transit entities are going to report studies that demonstrate the opposite:

Does Rail Reduce Congestion

If reducing congestion is the goal, the most effective tool is to make driving during peak hours prohibitively expensive as compared to other means of transportation.

I don't think reducing congestion is the real goal, though.

[BostonMike7]

OK, i'm venting.

This week has been terrible! I've seen my normally 45-60min commute each direction turn into 1.5-2hrs now. No major accidents along my route, just more cars out there, longer backups, slower traffic.

I'm attributing it to nicer weather, and people going in earlier to get out early and enjoy the day.


It just sucks going from 2 hrs in a car each day commuting, to nearly 4!

[Whatsnext75]

there's really no easy commute into Boston. Sure, some commutes are easier than others, but there is going to be traffic no matter where you are coming from during rush hour. This is another reason I think businesses need to build up in other citires in the area-worcester, springfield, quincy, etc. As time goes on it's going to get even worse as the city becomes more populated.

[Parsec]

Originally Posted by BostonMike7

OK, i'm venting.

This week has been terrible! I've seen my normally 45-60min commute each direction turn into 1.5-2hrs now. No major accidents along my route, just more cars out there, longer backups, slower traffic.

I'm attributing it to nicer weather, and people going in earlier to get out early and enjoy the day.


It just sucks going from 2 hrs in a car each day commuting, to nearly 4!

You've been working in Billerica for a while now, right? Does this happen to your commute every year when the weather warms up? I've noticed my commute always gets worse in September, usually for a month right after school starts. Then it quiets down again after people get themselves back onto a regular schedule after summer break. I've never noticed my spring commute getting worse until this year.

[impala096]

It's the first spring since 2010 average gas prices has been below $3/gallon. The lower gas prices are having an effect on vehicle miles traveled.

[Guineas]

I'm in Milton and the commute to downtown (6 miles) has been about the same on the Southeast Expressway. 10 minutes to downtown before 6am, and 30 minutes between 7-9am. Evening commute is about 20-30 minutes, but I go on Morrissey Blvd for the drive home instead of I-93. It was a lot worse this winter (double time) when the MBTA red line and commuter trains were down even though the roads were clear (which should answer the above question of whether rail relieves traffic). I think Southeast Expressway traffic has always been bad, and sort of has reached max capacity long ago, it's just a lot of other highways are now becoming as bad as us.

I don't know how you guys handle 50 minute commutes. I find my 30 minute commute taxing enough, I would shoot myself if I had to regularly do 50-90 minute commutes. My sanity is well worth the slightly higher real estate prices living closer. I do think businesses really need to go more into the less popular burbs or Providence.

[mp775]

Originally Posted by Parsec

You've been working in Billerica for a while now, right? Does this happen to your commute every year when the weather warms up?

Traffic on urban arterials in Mass. is at its highest in June (10 percent higher than the annual average) and second-highest in May (9 percent higher) - http://www.nmcog.org/traffic%20count...014.pdf#page=9. So it's only going to get worse before it gets better .

I've noticed my commute always gets worse in September, usually for a month right after school starts. Then it quiets down again after people get themselves back onto a regular schedule after summer break.

I've heard a plausible reason for this from a couple of independent sources - traffic is worse in September and then improves because students who can't quite handle college start to drop out.