Strategies for buying house in a seller's market.. (Boston, Quincy: 2013, townhouse)

[jayrandom]

Originally Posted by academica

Well, I appreciate this advice, but I already can find houses to my taste in these areas at this price point, so the problem is not the budget. And sometimes the sold prices are even not higher than what I offered. Can you clarify how expanding into other areas would change anything?

Your problem is money. The problem is almost always money (maybe some co-ops might care about your character, but for a SFH it always comes down to money). The problem is that you are walking right up to the edge of your budget in towns where that isn't enough to close the deal.

I recently (about 18 months ago) sold a house in your price range in a reasonably desirable town just outside of 128. We had multiple offers that drove the price up, but at no point did we get an all-cash offer or have anyone waive the mortgage or inspection contingencies. That doesn't happen nearly as much outside of 128 as inside, in large part because of the difference in types of buyers. They're definitely more like you, i.e. normal people who want to buy a house to live in.

Originally Posted by academica

OK, fair enough I will consider other areas. do you mind telling me if you know a few towns that satisfy the criteria below (in priority order):

1. <1hr door-to-door public transport to Park Street area in downtown
2. Safer neighborhood- low crime
3. Good elementary schools (read: greatschools rating ~7 or up) that is enough for me.
4. Walkscore >60 (walkable for at least some errands, with a nice downtown maybe.. not totally bedroom community)

Just to remind, here is what I was looking for: A SF house with a small yard, or a condo/TH with SF feel (nice shared yard, private deck, etc) 2-3 br 1.5 (or 1) bath, 1000-1500 sqft, budget~ $500 - $550k

The house we would buy should be in a reasonably move-in condition, no fixer uppers.

Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions!..

I think you should seriously consider a commuter rail town. Door-to-door to downtown or Back Bay it is much faster on the commuter rail than it was when we lived in Belmont and could take bus->red line. I work in Cambridge and add a 30 minute walk to my commuter rail ride and still make it to and from work in just about in a hour. If you actually work in Boston you should be able to have a much shorter commute (my wife has about a 30 minute door-to-door commute, at least if you count one of the doors as daycare). There are downsides, though. Commuter rail is infrequent, especially off of normal commute times, so if you work an unusual or varied schedule it is not a great choice. It is also expensive. A monthly pass will run you about $250 and parking in many locations is $4/day.

As to your specific commute, it's about 10 minute walk or two stops from South Station to Park Street Station. If you live within a 10 minute drive to the station, that gives you about 40 minutes on the train if you want < 1hr commute. Some commuter rail possibilities would be Canton, Natick, or Westwood. You might also consider Milton and Braintree, which probably wouldn't be commute rail but do have reasonable public transit access to Boston.

I actually think, based on where you're looking and what you're after, that you probably shouldn't pick one of these further-out towns, but you should at least consider them.

[G-fused]

In terms of waiting...I don't know. Interest rates will likely keep rising and that sometimes has the affect of bringing prices down - that doesn't happen hear as much as other places but just throwing it out there. OP has a decent income so can tolerate a bit of a higher interest rate and although it would be more expensive in the long run, may be a trade off that he needs to make. Just a thought.

Other than that, yeah - it's nutty that someone with such a good income has so much trouble. Nobody should be surprised though. There are so many cash offers. OP, I know it's a long shot but I'll throw this out there too - if you have parents with cash or sibling or anything, maybe you can borrow it from them to increase the down payment to 20%+. I don't know.

Best of luck.

[robr2]

Originally Posted by academica

OK, fair enough I will consider other areas. do you mind telling me if you know a few towns that satisfy the criteria below (in priority order):

1. <1hr door-to-door public transport to Park Street area in downtown
2. Safer neighborhood- low crime
3. Good elementary schools (read: greatschools rating ~7 or up) that is enough for me.
4. Walkscore >60 (walkable for at least some errands, with a nice downtown maybe.. not totally bedroom community)

Just to remind, here is what I was looking for: A SF house with a small yard, or a condo/TH with SF feel (nice shared yard, private deck, etc) 2-3 br 1.5 (or 1) bath, 1000-1500 sqft, budget~ $500 - $550k

The house we would buy should be in a reasonably move-in condition, no fixer uppers.

Thank you in advance for any and all suggestions!..

You're going to have to give something up:

1 hour commute with public transportation to downtown with get you 2 and 3 but not 4
Safer neighborhood - low crime you might get 1 and 3 but not 4
good schools - you will get with 1 and 2 but not 4 and not at your budget for a move in condition
walk score you get 1 but rarely 2 or 3.

You might be able to get 1,2,3 at $500 or so in Woburn and Wilmington and maybe Burlington if you are willing to take something that needs some updating or on a main st. The train from Wilmington or Woburn is 30 minutes to North Station and a 15-20 minute walk to downtown.

[MikePRU]

Originally Posted by academica

Mike: Thank you for your reply, I appreciate it. To your comments:

1. Yes, thanks for correcting me, my Redfin agent is also regional. I didn't know the difference of regional / local, I said local because he has lived and lives in these towns I am looking to buy for his life, and his family is in construction business so he seems to know what he is doing.

No two agents are created equal. Hiring someone from Redfin is no guarantee that you're getting someone capable just as hiring someone from Coldwell Banker would not be either. My only hope is that people have a positive experience with their agent as I am in general a supporter of the industry. If you like your agent and he's doing a good job, then I'm happy for you.

Originally Posted by academica

2. It is true, I also noticed some look strange when I say Redfin. But guess what, on one condo in Arlington last weekend, the page I was signing up in the signup sheet was full with Redfin buyers, I counted 6 of them in a page. so whether people like it or not, these guys are here for good. Frankly I don't hear nearly as much complaints about their service as I do about some traditional agents and two of my friends bought with them in Belmont and Medford.

Again, hiring someone from one brokerage or another is no guarantee that this person is capable. I've dealt with plenty of Redfin, Coldwell Banker, Re/Max, you name it agents who didn't know their elbow from their backside. Also, please see my original post. I specifically stated that Redfin exists because it meets a need for some people. I don't see them going anywhere but I also don't see them as a fit for everyone.

People like to save money and their promise of discounts and rebates is very attractive. They don't always delivered and I've been happy to take on several clients who were less than pleased with their Redfin agent. I've also taken on clients who previously work with Re/Max, Coldwell Banker, etc., etc., etc. Again no two agents are created equal.

Originally Posted by academica

3. My agent is also listing.

Great! I've never seen a Redfin agent who works with buyers also list a house in my area. As their service model breaks down functions and gives them to different members of the team I incorrectly assumed that they split up that function as well.

Originally Posted by academica

I am still not convinced that a local agent in Arlington or Medford can actually pull up "hidden" listings without a seller puts them in market and drives bidding wars in open houses. I just can't see how that could happen. Maybe in the past. But today, if I was selling, and if my agent told me this, I would fire him. Why not show to as many buyers as you can and take advantage of this crazy bidding wars?

I would fire that agent too. However, it happens all the time. Some people are happy not to list. Personally, I'd rather get more money and be inconvenienced. I just had a sale a few months ago with someone who contacted me through City Data. The house they bought was not listed and surely would have sold for more if it had made to the market. However, the seller was happy to sell it to them. It's not my job to look out for other people's clients so I was happy to take advantage of the situation.

[academica]

Originally Posted by alidmc

How long have you been looking for? This is the hottest time of the year to look for houses. I am familiar with the areas you are looking in and can tell you that quite a few houses that were listed and did not sell in the fall/winter were re-listed in the spring and were under agreement within days.
I also do not think your budget is unrealistic for these areas, I just think things are ridiculous right now.
If you don't have to rush, wait a bit. Nobody likes to move in during winter, but if it gets you a place in a location you really want it will be worth it.

I have been looking last 2-3 months. I don't mind buying on Christmas day if that means I will be able to buy in a town I prefer. However, I am told that although less buyers will be in market in the Fall/Winter, less properties will be available too, so that makes the competition not any better.

But IF buyers in those seasons will be less crazy (i.e. less cash buyers, more normal ones like me) that could help.. but that is a big if.

Originally Posted by Partial Observer

With your budget, you should look into Natick. You could technically get to Park Street Station in exactly one hour by taking the commuter rail to South Station and hopping on the Red Line. I would have given my left arm, right leg, and both testicles to have had $500-550K to spend in Natick when I was house-hunting.

I am trying to stay within 128 due to several reasons.

Originally Posted by Ninotchka P

Drop the Redfin agent. You're not doing yourself any favors, and while it may not make the final difference, why saddle yourself with an agent that other agents prefer not to work with? My personal experience as a prior seller reflects that - my agent did his best to steer from a good Redfin offer to a similar non-Redfin offer.

interesting, if other agents dislike/hate them that much, I may consider dropping Redfin for just that reason.. especially when it comes to minor differences in offers, I need all the leverage I can have..

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

OP might have the same problems in lesser towns. I put 7-8 offers on homes in central MA and southern NH (can't remember the exact number), and was passed over for "better qualified buyers" even with 16% down, no inspection cont., and a commitment letter which was 100-150K higher than my offers from a reputable local Credit Union. All of the properties sold for above asking.

I ended up dabbling in short-sales simply to avoid the herd.

^^ this. exactly what I was thinking, but had no information for. If this is what is likely to happen, I am OK to keep offering & waiting in the towns within 128.

[academica]

Originally Posted by jayrandom

I think you should seriously consider a commuter rail town. Door-to-door to downtown or Back Bay it is much faster on the commuter rail than it was when we lived in Belmont and could take bus->red line. I work in Cambridge and add a 30 minute walk to my commuter rail ride and still make it to and from work in just about in a hour. If you actually work in Boston you should be able to have a much shorter commute (my wife has about a 30 minute door-to-door commute, at least if you count one of the doors as daycare). There are downsides, though. Commuter rail is infrequent, especially off of normal commute times, so if you work an unusual or varied schedule it is not a great choice. It is also expensive. A monthly pass will run you about $250 and parking in many locations is $4/day.

As to your specific commute, it's about 10 minute walk or two stops from South Station to Park Street Station. If you live within a 10 minute drive to the station, that gives you about 40 minutes on the train if you want < 1hr commute. Some commuter rail possibilities would be Canton, Natick, or Westwood. You might also consider Milton and Braintree, which probably wouldn't be commute rail but do have reasonable public transit access to Boston.

I actually think, based on where you're looking and what you're after, that you probably shouldn't pick one of these further-out towns, but you should at least consider them.

this is the issue, I work on varied schedule (although I can fixate it, I prefer this way). that is why I liked Melrose, I can use commuter rail in one of the three stops, and in case train schedule doesn't work, I can go to Oak Grove for T. That is just perfect commute for me. (my office is very close to Park St or Downtown crossing T stops, so that helps).

Another concern is that my wife goes to school at UMass Boston and she drives. So I am trying to keep her driving time (in rush hour) less than 1 hr as well. Some faraway towns which are OK with commuter rail transport are simply too far to drive in traffic. And she can't take the T because she drops and picks up our son from daycare.

A third reason I try to stay in these areas is the fact that all friends that we had since we moved to Boston three years ago are living in Watertown, Medford, Newton, Waltham, Arlington etc. mostly north and west of Boston. that is why I am very foreign to the towns south of Boston.

For these three reasons we are OK to even give up on SF but suffice with a condo.

Originally Posted by G-fused

In terms of waiting...I don't know. Interest rates will likely keep rising and that sometimes has the affect of bringing prices down - that doesn't happen hear as much as other places but just throwing it out there. OP has a decent income so can tolerate a bit of a higher interest rate and although it would be more expensive in the long run, may be a trade off that he needs to make. Just a thought.

Other than that, yeah - it's nutty that someone with such a good income has so much trouble. Nobody should be surprised though. There are so many cash offers. OP, I know it's a long shot but I'll throw this out there too - if you have parents with cash or sibling or anything, maybe you can borrow it from them to increase the down payment to 20%+. I don't know.

Best of luck.

10% is the max I can do, unless I wait a year or two. and I think that the factors that push the market this way are here to stay (industry, jobs, schools, demographics, etc.), so I don't foresee any drop in prices soon.. with this level of inventory, I think the prices will go up for at least couple more years. that is my guess of course that actually encourages me to offer way over asking now, since another year will cost me 3-5% anyways.. (plus the wasted rent)

Originally Posted by robr2

You're going to have to give something up:

1 hour commute with public transportation to downtown with get you 2 and 3 but not 4
Safer neighborhood - low crime you might get 1 and 3 but not 4
good schools - you will get with 1 and 2 but not 4 and not at your budget for a move in condition
walk score you get 1 but rarely 2 or 3.

You might be able to get 1,2,3 at $500 or so in Woburn and Wilmington and maybe Burlington if you are willing to take something that needs some updating or on a main st. The train from Wilmington or Woburn is 30 minutes to North Station and a 15-20 minute walk to downtown.

ok, based on your observation, I have to give up #4. It was the lowest priority anyways, so I could do that. (my wife is the one who likes that, and I guess we can compromise if we buy in a town with lower average walk score but a house relatively closer to a grocery store or a CVS for quick errands). If you're wondering, we're from Greece and that is how we're used to living, walk to get your daily bread/milk etc. Yes we're adjusting, slowly but surely..

I see Melrose just like that, a suburban town, but some houses have relatively higher walk scores.. I convinced my wife for that. less than Melrose, we've got to think.

[sawyer2]

You mentioned that you had been looking for 2-3 months which is not too long in this low inventory/high demand market. Also, you are fine tuning your needs/wishes and getting more familiar with towns and options so I would not lose faith yet.

Real estate is all about compromise, at nearly all price points. Your budget will mean compromising on size/convenience/location and you will have to decide which one is most important to you.

Driving access to UMass seems like it would be bad from any towns north? Seems like towns south of Boston might be a better option.....appreciate your friends live North/West but I wouldn't let that be too much of a factor.

[scitu8]

Two suggestions. Prepare a letter to submit with offers. Just a brief outline about yourself, your current employment - anything that will help alleviate a Seller's fears about your purchase power. Submit for every offer, just change out specifics (I.e. I love the location of your home because...). Second, your ability to close quickly may give you an edge. Ask your lender how quickly they can work to get you cleared to close. Good luck in your search.

[xo_kizzy_xo]

Originally Posted by sawyer2

Driving access to UMass seems like it would be bad from any towns north? Seems like towns south of Boston might be a better option.....appreciate your friends live North/West but I wouldn't let that be too much of a factor.

This, if only for her commute. Getting to UMass from anywhere but south would be a bigger PITA.

We have friends who were in a similar situation as the OP, the majority of their friends being west-central toward Worcester. One landed a job on the South Shore; the other, downtown Boston. They ended up moving to Weymouth as a commuting compromise. They didn't even bother looking for a house in the area where they'd been living. They now get together with their west-central friends every other week or so.

[Dm84]

Originally Posted by xo_kizzy_xo

This, if only for her commute. Getting to UMass from anywhere but south would be a bigger PITA.

We have friends who were in a similar situation as the OP, the majority of their friends being west-central toward Worcester. One landed a job on the South Shore; the other, downtown Boston. They ended up moving to Weymouth as a commuting compromise. They didn't even bother looking for a house in the area where they'd been living. They now get together with their west-central friends every other week or so.

Seriously. When I saw she was going to UMass I couldn't believe they were looking North of Boston.