~Southern New England Demographic Update 2016 (2015) ~ (Boston, Worcester: renting, insurance, high crime)

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

Madsachusetts' Urban poor would be greatly helped if density were more evenly spread through the region. It would lessen inequality but evening out property values and taking the concentration of apartments, projects and tenement off of our cities. Most of it cities are not Boston and will continue to decline whether we want to admit it or not. The only city not within 10 miles of Boston to truly turn around and come up is Lowell. The rest have up and down years but overall theystruggle mightily.

So move poor people to Weston and Lexington? The people in the gold plated suburbs are totally happy with a system that socioeconomically segregates society. Elderly housing? Sure. None of those leafy suburbs are going to allow construction of public housing ghettos.

Lowell turned around because of huge piles of Tsongas Federal money. In 2017, you think any other failed city is going to get that kind of Federal cash injection? In a blue state?

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

So move poor people to Weston and Lexington? The people in the gold plated suburbs are totally happy with a system that socioeconomically segregates society. Elderly housing? Sure. None of those leafy suburbs are going to allow construction of public housing ghettos.

If more any kind of housing was allowed (increasing the supply to meet demand) that would put some relief on the overall prices, eliminating the need for more subsidized housing.

[Dm84]

Originally Posted by massnative71

If more any kind of housing was allowed (increasing the supply to meet demand) that would put some relief on the overall prices, eliminating the need for more subsidized housing.

lol keep dreaming. People want to protect their property values. They do not want price relief.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by Dm84

lol keep dreaming. People want to protect their property values. They do not want price relief.

Existing homeowners, yes.

[GeoffD]

Originally Posted by massnative71

What doesn't make sense is that states with higher poverty rates find the money to pay for those things, or at least do a better job with it.


The individual welfare payouts in MA are among the highest, even adjusted for COL. Bad behavior gets rewarded, and those that are productive and play by the rules get shafted.

The red state approach is to pay for it with local sales and property taxes. Take Tennessee for example. The suburbs south of Nashville are one of the most affluent places on the planet. No state income tax. Big town/county property tax and local sales taxes pay for all the infrastructure and services. Great schools. Superb roads. The latest in police and fire services. The same trappings you'd find in a top-5 Boston suburb. If you're white trash hillbilly in Eastern Tennessee or poor black in Memphis, you don't see a dime. The infrastructure is a disaster. The town/city services pretty much don't exist.

In Memphis or Appalachia, bad behavior doesn't get rewarded but people are still dirt poor and trapped there. It's an ACA opt-out state so most of them don't qualify for Medicaid. If you get sick with something easily curable, you die.

I'd love to see a citation for "The individual welfare payouts in MA are among the highest" where healthy adults get big piles of cash to sit around and do nothing. Able bodied people don't get payouts. They get Medicaid in the guise of MassHealth. The spending otherwise is targeted at the elderly, the disabled, single mothers, and very poor families with children. We can talk about public policy changes that could discourage the whole single mother problem but it's not like an able bodied adult without children can get a dime of public assistance beyond Medicaid.

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The red state approach is to pay for it with local sales and property taxes. .

Red states like Tennessee are also heavily subsidized by northern blue states tax dollars flowing to them.

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by GeoffD

The red state approach is to pay for it with local sales and property taxes. Take Tennessee for example. The suburbs south of Nashville are one of the most affluent places on the planet. No state income tax. Big town/county property tax and local sales taxes pay for all the infrastructure and services. Great schools. Superb roads. The latest in police and fire services. The same trappings you'd find in a top-5 Boston suburb. If you're white trash hillbilly in Eastern Tennessee or poor black in Memphis, you don't see a dime. The infrastructure is a disaster. The town/city services pretty much don't exist.

In Memphis or Appalachia, bad behavior doesn't get rewarded but people are still dirt poor and trapped there. It's an ACA opt-out state so most of them don't qualify for Medicaid. If you get sick with something easily curable, you die.

I'd love to see a citation for "The individual welfare payouts in MA are among the highest" where healthy adults get big piles of cash to sit around and do nothing. Able bodied people don't get payouts. They get Medicaid in the guise of MassHealth. The spending otherwise is targeted at the elderly, the disabled, single mothers, and very poor families with children. We can talk about public policy changes that could discourage the whole single mother problem but it's not like an able bodied adult without children can get a dime of public assistance beyond Medicaid.

I lived near Nashville for about a year. Williamson County taxes are actually very low, lower than Davidson County or anywhere in MA. Can't comment about Memphis or Appalachia, but comparing the rougher parts of Davidson to Boston I didn't see anymore suffering or starvation among the poorest of people. There is a larger white underclass down there but I actually saw more upward mobility among the blacks there. The blacks there seemed to be doing much better than in the Boston area. My neighborhood was majority black and middle class, it was fine. I would NOT live in a majority black neighborhood anywhere in MA, save for maybe a small part of Milton. Infrastructure was superior THROUGHOUT the Nashville area, not just in wealthy Williamson. I've just driven through East TN, but the roads there also seemed better than MA. Knoxville area has all newer roads/utilities, etc.


On health care, you may be surprised that TN was once at the forefront of reform (way before MA) with their TennCare program. It has been scaled back over the years, for their inability to control costs. I believe the poorest still qualify for Medicaid like anywhere else, and those with pre-existing conditions are still eligible. Nashville is home to the HMO industry, so naturally there was/is a lot of corruption in that relationship. TN has been #1 for prescription drug use/abuse, it shouldn't be a mystery why.


https://www.tnjustice.org/tenncare/t...able-care-act/

[MMS02760]

Originally Posted by bolehboleh

Fair point on the commute, but Providence is still one of the MBTA's busiest commuter station.

But what about Providence jump starting their own economy? Certainly they can offer some tax incentives for certain types of businesses that will encourage people to commute there instead of Boston.

RI is trying to jump start its economy. It is however no easy task given many of its challenges. The main focus of this has been the plan for a creation of an Innovation & Design knowledge district on the downtown land that was formerly traversed by the Route 195 overpass. The highway was straightened out and moved south of the Hurricane Barrier. It freed up a considerable amount of land situated in what was once the jewelry district. This area is located between the downtown colleges (Brown University/RISD/JWU) and the hospitals (RI Hospital, Hasbro Childrens, Women & Infants) and the intent is to leverage these institutions. The Brown Med School is already located in this area and will expand. The nursing programs for both URI and RIC will move off campus to the area. The planned Wexford Science & Technology Center is expected to create over 1000 permanent jobs. Its main tenant is the Cambridge Innovation Center (CIC), founded by MIT grads as a community of entrepreneurs. JWU has already constructed a new academic building. Other developments already approved include student & residential housing and a hotel to serve the new businesses. Many of these projects are being undertaken with tax incentives.

There has been some other small successes in Providence such as the new GE Digital and Virgin Pulse offices which will increase tech jobs. Development continues throughout the city as evidenced by five new planned hotels and continued addition of new residential units in and around the downtown.


PROVIDENCE INNOVATION & DESIGN DISTRICT
https://www.195district.com/

5 new Providence hotels could open in 2018 + map
5 new Providence hotels could open in 2018 + map - News - providencejournal.com - Providence, RI

Land freed up by relocation of Rte 195 (green open space path snaking its way in middle of photo)
http://www.providencejournal.com/sto...-308079543.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.gcpvd.org/wp-c...rial-ridot.jpg

[massnative71]

Originally Posted by timberline742

Red states like Tennessee are also heavily subsidized by northern blue states tax dollars flowing to them.

Yes and no. A large part of that money flowing showed in those "studies" include military spending, where there is of course a large presence in states like NC and TX. And yes those states do tend to have higher poverty (always have), so more social assistance money goes there.

[MMS02760]

Many here have questioned the much lower growth (population and wages) for the neighboring states of RI and CT. One could however raise these same questions about most of the state of Massachusetts. I write this as nearly all growth in MA is in some way tied to Boston (neither RI or CT has such a comparable growth engine). Do people feel the rest of the state is actually growing at a good rate? How do you explain cities such as Lawrence, Lynn, Brockton, Fall River, New Bedford, Lowell, Worcester, Springfield, and Holyoke?