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It's not bad at all, and the demographics are changing significantly-- especially the last five years. Around the Landing, houses are selling within a week at asking price. Not bad for the 'bad town' in the area! Factoring in that there's a huge redevelopment boom in the city, I think you'll hear a lot of people in 5 years saying that they can't believe how much it has changed, and for the better.
I noticed that, too, the last time I was down that way.
I'm calling it "The Quincy Effect" because I'm betting once the redevelopment there is said and done, Weymouth is going to get the overflow and/or the people who were priced out.
I agree with all of this but need to quibble over the top-2% salary part. Top-5% statewide, maybe. Massachusetts has a ton of very high paying jobs. It's why an OK house in a leafy Boston suburb with a good school system costs $1 million+. Median household income in Norfolk County is $90K. 1/4 of the people in the county make Amazon-level money. That $125K to $150K Amazon tech job is nothing special. It's not like everybody in the building makes $250K+ until you start counting stock options and ESPP up-side.
In Springfield, Amazon money is Thurston Howell III money. If you're not in a medical job or director level, few people see that kind of compensation.
Depends. I've seen some jobs posted today in Cambridge and the same pay for the same position exists in Springfield.
Boston isn't exactly in a sustainable position right now.
Boston runs on Dunkin Actually Boston runs on Quabbin. The vast majority of water for the MWRA comes about 90 miles away. Springfield has sources of water much closer http://www.waterandsewer.org/pdfs/Water_Service_Map.pdf
Access to water might not sound like much but you have to remember the more that is involved the more it costs in the long term. At the same point it takes less time to take the train from Springfield to NYC vs the Boston to NYC route (even with the Acela). The MBTA is one of the most delayed railines in the country. If it ever gets to the point where they have to shut it down again the exodus will start. If commuting from the 128 belt, north shore and south goes from one hour to two/two and a half and Fridays goes beyond three we'll see companies start to leave. I already personally know of companies that have their HQ's in the suburbs for this very reason. I know some have this obsession with Boston in that everyone is young, fresh and healthy and some think the world runs around it. Yeah I did as well until I traveled. Boston is nice but pretty much everything in it is imported. Water, labor, students.
Meanwhile
Springfield public schools has a graduation rate of about 68%
Boston public schools has a graduation rate of about 72%
Springfield public schools is the largest receiver of Massachusetts School Building Authority funds in the state with twice as many projects as Boston even though Boston has about three times the number of buildings.
Springfield can easily be argued to be poor but half the people in Boston make 35K or less.
If Springfield is remote I have to ask remote from what exactly? Baystate Health is the 3rd largest hospital in the state. Ass in access to Mercy and Shriners and it adds up. Of course they'll always be some specific care by which you can go to boston but is that ever day?
Yes Boston is known for sports but at the same time the Revolution and Patriots play in Gillette Stadium which is much further south. If you want major league sports ok fine I get that. Springfield has the Thunderbirds and you can catch a AAA game in Hartford and ABA at the Basketball Hall of Fame.
At the same point why wasn't the Big E in Boston? It just set a one day record at 171,000 people. That's more than Fenway Park, Gillette Stadium and the Boston Garden combined. The Big E 2017 sets new attendance record | masslive.com
You have to ask yourself initially why Amazon didn't set up in the bay area to begin with. It's not like Boeing and Starbucks really fit into online retailing during the mid 1990's.
Personally I don't think that Springfield would get it but it wouldn't surprise me if Hartford did. Connecticut needs more economic growth and they have made some efforts in Hartford. The amount of rail linking Springfield and New Haven easily gets beyond the population they want (400K direct urban and over 600K in more semi urban/suburban). It's also much closer to NYC vs Boston.
"The nearest Trader Joe's and Whole Foods is Amherst. You have to drive to Hartford to get your Porsche or Volvo serviced. It's isolated the same way rust belt and flyover country is isolated. "
Please if you are using car dealerships as a form of wealth that's a weak argument. I see plenty of different cars on the road from low end to high end, hybrid, electric etc. Cars are often financed and drop in price dramatically year over year. No one really invests in a car.
Trader Joes? Yeah that's Hadley not Amherst and even then Aldi is pretty much the same thing (related company) there's a large number of Aldi's across the region and they are planning a nationwide refresh. Whole foods? Apparently you haven't heard of Fresh Acres which is pretty much the same thing. Fresh Acres Market - Fresh Acres Market® Keep in mind the farms that are in the area and the sourcing of food.
Then there's the smaller ones like Frigos https://www.frigofoods.com An Asian supermarket just opened up 5 Star Farmers Market - HOME
You want coffee shops? You want real ethnic restaurants? Cheaper housing? Historic homes? Boutique shops? Access to higher ed? Bike sharing? Marker shops? Startup incubators? etc. It all adds up.
Boston gentrified gradually to the point where it is next to impossible to financially do anything. That and the traffic and infrastructure problems add up. GE is already delayed two years, they had layoffs and are spinning off their transportation line. There's a number of people that do not want boston to be affordable to live and work. The casino was large argued against because Boston has some of the highest hotel prices in the country.
Back to Amazon I still think Hartford has a interesting shot because the state actually needs the jobs and revenue and the location is pretty good along with the price. It's close enough to NYC, has a fair amount of academia and transit.
I'm not saying places like Springfield or Hartford or anywhere else are "bad," but they simply have no shot at landing Amazon.
In this situation, a "dark horse" winner would be somewhere like Pittsburgh, or Cincinnati, or Minneapolis. Anywhere smaller than a midmarket metro would be truly a major shock. But it's just not going to happen, regardless of how great a given small city may be.
I'm not saying places like Springfield or Hartford or anywhere else are "bad," but they simply have no shot at landing Amazon.
In this situation, a "dark horse" winner would be somewhere like Pittsburgh, or Cincinnati, or Minneapolis. Anywhere smaller than a midmarket metro would be truly a major shock. But it's just not going to happen, regardless of how great a given small city may be.
I think a few areas can be cut out off the top.
They can't make it in Seattle because that's just too much.
If costs were of no concern at all I'd argue NYC.
Cincinnati would be interesting given the downfall of Macy's. It's going to be a very sad day when they shutter.
Space is also a factor. What areas have a scalable area of nearly a quarter mile. We're talking complete city blocks if directly in a city
It also depends as to how metro is defined. The NYC metro area includes Litchfield and New Haven County https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...litan_Area.png
It isn't that far of a stretch to say that Hartford might be argued to be in the NYC metro area, Springfield a bit harder but still. Albany metro stretches into North Adams etc.
Western Mass is closer to NY than the rest of the state. NY radio stations often come in. You can find Yankees fans pretty easily, Giants fans and sometimes Mets Manhattan real estate developers operate apartments now in Springfield. Starting in May people will be able to buy metronorth tickets at union station.
Would it look odd if they said Hartford and they claimed it was in the NYC area? Maybe but I think most would understand.
Depends. I've seen some jobs posted today in Cambridge and the same pay for the same position exists in Springfield.
Sure, but Boston has far more high paying jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
Boston isn't exactly in a sustainable position right now.
Boston runs on Dunkin Actually Boston runs on Quabbin. The vast majority of water for the MWRA comes about 90 miles away. Springfield has sources of water much closer http://www.waterandsewer.org/pdfs/Water_Service_Map.pdf
Access to water might not sound like much but you have to remember the more that is involved the more it costs in the long term.
Maybe if Amazon needed massive amounts of fresh water. They don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
At the same point it takes less time to take the train from Springfield to NYC vs the Boston to NYC route (even with the Acela). The MBTA is one of the most delayed railines in the country. If it ever gets to the point where they have to shut it down again the exodus will start. If commuting from the 128 belt, north shore and south goes from one hour to two/two and a half and Fridays goes beyond three we'll see companies start to leave. I already personally know of companies that have their HQ's in the suburbs for this very reason. I know some have this obsession with Boston in that everyone is young, fresh and healthy and some think the world runs around it. Yeah I did as well until I traveled. Boston is nice but pretty much everything in it is imported. Water, labor, students.
Yeah, Amazon doesn't care about students at UMass anywhere. They are hiring from Harvard and MIT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
If Springfield is remote I have to ask remote from what exactly? Baystate Health is the 3rd largest hospital in the state. Ass in access to Mercy and Shriners and it adds up. Of course they'll always be some specific care by which you can go to boston but is that ever day?
Are you trying to convince me that Amazon will move there or that Springfield isn't a black hole of dire poverty?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
Yes Boston is known for sports but at the same time the Revolution and Patriots play in Gillette Stadium which is much further south. If you want major league sports ok fine I get that. Springfield has the Thunderbirds and you can catch a AAA game in Hartford and ABA at the Basketball Hall of Fame.
Isn't Gillette about the same distance from Boston as Hartford is from Springfield? Also, Hartford only has a AA team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
At the same point why wasn't the Big E in Boston? It just set a one day record at 171,000 people. That's more than Fenway Park, Gillette Stadium and the Boston Garden combined. The Big E 2017 sets new attendance record | masslive.com
It's an AG fair. Boston hasn't been a hub of agriculture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
You have to ask yourself initially why Amazon didn't set up in the bay area to begin with. It's not like Boeing and Starbucks really fit into online retailing during the mid 1990's.
A good pool of software engineers (from Microsoft) and proximity to one of the largest book distributors in the country. They also wanted to stay out of larger states so they would limit the number of people they'd have to charge taxes to. Why is Microsoft in Washington, you might ask? That's where Bill Gates is from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
Back to Amazon I still think Hartford has a interesting shot because the state actually needs the jobs and revenue and the location is pretty good along with the price. It's close enough to NYC, has a fair amount of academia and transit.
And this pretty much encapsulates everything wrong with what you've said. You think needing jobs is a big selling point. It's a HUGE turn-off. I think a place like Boston would be a good choice for Amazon and a bad choice for people already in Boston. I think Springfield would be a good choice for Springfield and a bad choice for Amazon. Unfortunately Amazon gets to decide, not me.
"Sure, but Boston has far more high paying jobs. "
It depends because you have to see the costs of what it gets. Can someone get a house in Boston for 140K hell no. Try about four times that. Ok so if you don't buy you rent but even then the rents are higher. Drive in? Traffic is horrible. Train in? It's falling apart. I make about 25-30% more than I did in eastern Mass. How? Because not all places have the same budget. I see people from eastern Mass and the region coming here for work. What might not stand out there does stand out here. What holds many people back is a lack of having the ability to move. In addition they might not want to work in a place that is urban, rural, being around those with different social economic statuses etc. A coworker of mine last year left for Yale yet he gets the same pay as here. The area here was on a financial control board long ago and combined with the tornado and gas explosion pretty much made people realize they have to work together. Property prices are going up, rents are going up and construction is going up left and right.
It's nice to make a good deal of money but at the end of the day does that attract retirees? So if it's too expensive for people on entry level jobs and too expensive for retirees then that really limits demographically those that can live there at least in the long term.
"Maybe if Amazon needed massive amounts of fresh water. They don't. "
Right but see what else does it bring. um power. The Green computing center was put in Holyoke because the electrical costs was half of Boston. Why pay 2x the price to do the same thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...mputing_Center
Costs *DO* matter. This is academia we are talking about. Harvard couldn't afford to put this on its own campus, neither could MIT.
"Huh? We import students and labor? "
Have you ever heard of a visa program and sponsorship? Yes that is a form of importing. https://commonwealthmagazine.org/eco...1b-connection/
"MORE THAN 1,200 Massachusetts companies hired 5,481 skilled foreign workers last year through a controversial visa program that is simultaneously being praised for helping to plug holes in the state’s tech workforce and criticized as a way to replace US employees with cheaper foreign labor."
"The H-1B visa program, which allows skilled foreign workers to be brought into the country for stays of up to three years, is used by Massachusetts companies engaged in high tech, life sciences, and the law, as well as hospitals, colleges, banks, construction firms, and even the public school systems of Cambridge and Newton. Massachusetts currently ranks sixth in the nation in terms of H-1B workers, behind California, New Jersey, Texas, New York, and Florida, according to data supplied by the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. "
Without immigration much of Massachusetts and especially Boston would be empty. Personally I rather see a path to citizenship vs a visa program. I don't know how many people and companies you hire specifically.
"Yeah, Amazon doesn't care about students any where. They are hiring from Harvard and MIT. "
Which explains why I friend of mine works for them and he went to Kellogg.
"Isn't Gillette about the same distance from Boston as Hartford is from Springfield? Also, Hartford only has a AA team. "
Irrelevant argument. The CT connector is only $6 each way between Springfield and Hartford. There is no frequent train to Gillette in the same fashion. I've been to both. Boston traffic vs a train 12 times a day. By car without traffic it can be the same but good luck with that at the Braintree split.
"It's an AG fair. Boston hasn't been a hub of agriculture."
Uh...no it's not an "AG fair". Sorry but that's maybe 70 years ago but not today. The Big E is also the fairgrounds which is year round. The fair itself is about three weeks. The Big E I take it you have not attended. Again why isn't this in the Boston area? Well for awhile they shut down amusement parks. Paragon Park closed in '85 and Kings Castle land way back when. At the same point there's a six flags here as well.
"A good pool of software engineers (from Microsoft) and proximity to one of the largest book distributors in the country. They also wanted to stay out of larger states so they would limit the number of people they'd have to charge taxes to. Why is Microsoft in Washington, you might ask? That's where Bill Gates is from."
"And this pretty much encapsulates everything wrong with what you've said. You think needing jobs is a big selling point. It's a HUGE turn-off. I think a place like Boston would be a good choice for Amazon and a bad choice for people already in Boston. I think Springfield would be a good choice for Springfield and a bad choice for Amazon. Unfortunately Amazon gets to decide, not me."
No not really a turnoff. Again have you ever hired anyone or a company? I've dealt with companies that didn't "need" the work. Ok fine I can't force them to work for me but that just means I have to find those that do. If someone doesn't really need work they are less apt to go for it. It is hard to explain to a board room and shareholders that you decided to spend more just because you wanted to compete for other talent on a whim. The no poaching lawsuit in the bay area left a bad taste in peoples mouths. Also remember Mass gradually is getting rid of non competes so if Amazon or anyone else thinks they can force them they can't. EMC tried to fight it but often times this backfires during layoffs. It's hard to argue someone doesn't bring value and they get laid off but then can't work for a competitor because they *DO* have value
If businesses were automatically attracted to high costs then why did factories move further south and then via globalization move overseas If costs were not a factor it all would have stayed domestically. Gateway cities are a perfect example. Lowell, Lawrence and Lynn with textiles, Fall River and New Bedford with whale oil and fishing, Brockton with shoes etc.
"Sure, but Boston has far more high paying jobs. "
It depends because you have to see the costs of what it gets. Can someone get a house in Boston for 140K hell no. Try about four times that. Ok so if you don't buy you rent but even then the rents are higher. Drive in? Traffic is horrible. Train in? It's falling apart. I make about 25-30% more than I did in eastern Mass. How? Because not all places have the same budget. I see people from eastern Mass and the region coming here for work. What might not stand out there does stand out here. What holds many people back is a lack of having the ability to move. In addition they might not want to work in a place that is urban, rural, being around those with different social economic statuses etc. A coworker of mine last year left for Yale yet he gets the same pay as here. The area here was on a financial control board long ago and combined with the tornado and gas explosion pretty much made people realize they have to work together. Property prices are going up, rents are going up and construction is going up left and right.
It doesn't depend. Boston has more high paying jobs. Whether it's the better place to live is another question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
It's nice to make a good deal of money but at the end of the day does that attract retirees? So if it's too expensive for people on entry level jobs and too expensive for retirees then that really limits demographically those that can live there at least in the long term.
Does it attract retirees? I'm sure that's priority #1 for Amazon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"Maybe if Amazon needed massive amounts of fresh water. They don't. "
Right but see what else does it bring. um power. The Green computing center was put in Holyoke because the electrical costs was half of Boston. Why pay 2x the price to do the same thing? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...mputing_Center
Costs *DO* matter. This is academia we are talking about. Harvard couldn't afford to put this on its own campus, neither could MIT.
They're not building a data center, they're building a headquarters. Iowa seems to be a popular location for those data centers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"Huh? We import students and labor? "
Have you ever heard of a visa program and sponsorship? Yes that is a form of importing. https://commonwealthmagazine.org/eco...1b-connection/
"MORE THAN 1,200 Massachusetts companies hired 5,481 skilled foreign workers last year through a controversial visa program that is simultaneously being praised for helping to plug holes in the state’s tech workforce and criticized as a way to replace US employees with cheaper foreign labor."
"The H-1B visa program, which allows skilled foreign workers to be brought into the country for stays of up to three years, is used by Massachusetts companies engaged in high tech, life sciences, and the law, as well as hospitals, colleges, banks, construction firms, and even the public school systems of Cambridge and Newton. Massachusetts currently ranks sixth in the nation in terms of H-1B workers, behind California, New Jersey, Texas, New York, and Florida, according to data supplied by the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. "
Without immigration much of Massachusetts and especially Boston would be empty. Personally I rather see a path to citizenship vs a visa program. I don't know how many people and companies you hire specifically.
I'm sure this is relevant to something, but not whether Amazon should move to Springfield.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"Yeah, Amazon doesn't care about students [from UMass]anywhere. They are hiring from Harvard and MIT. "
Which explains why I friend of mine works for them and he went to Kellogg.
As in the Kellogg School of Business at Northwestern? Which UMass campus is that affiliated with? Amazon will likely hire a good candidate from anywhere, but I don't think they will be recruiting heavily from UMass Boston if they relocate to Boston, but will likely focus on Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Northeastern, Bentley, and Olin. That UMass Boston isn't as good as UMass Amherst is probably both true and irrelevant to Amazon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"Isn't Gillette about the same distance from Boston as Hartford is from Springfield? Also, Hartford only has a AA team. "
Irrelevant argument. The CT connector is only $6 each way between Springfield and Hartford. There is no frequent train to Gillette in the same fashion. I've been to both. Boston traffic vs a train 12 times a day. By car without traffic it can be the same but good luck with that at the Braintree split.
It's a rebuttal to an irrelevant argument. Amazon doesn't care that Springfield has an ABA team and access to a AA baseball team. That's literally a selling point for no one, even the poor kids that are playing on that AA baseball team.
And there is a train to Gillette on Patriot Gamedays. It is more than $6, but I'd guess Patriot's tickets are more than Yard Goat tickets, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"It's an AG fair. Boston hasn't been a hub of agriculture."
Uh...no it's not an "AG fair". Sorry but that's maybe 70 years ago but not today. The Big E is also the fairgrounds which is year round. The fair itself is about three weeks. The Big E I take it you have not attended. Again why isn't this in the Boston area? Well for awhile they shut down amusement parks. Paragon Park closed in '85 and Kings Castle land way back when. At the same point there's a six flags here as well.
I've heard good things about the fair, although Wikipedia describes it as "The Big E, also known as The Eastern States Exposition, is billed as "New England's Great State fair". It is the largest agricultural event on the eastern seaboard and the seventh-largest fair in the nation.[2] The Big E is inclusive of all six of the New England states: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Each of the New England states is prominently represented at the fair."
Amazon doesn't care. I'm not trashing Springfield, it's just that none of this is all that relevant. Why isn't it in Boston? Why is the Topsfield fair in Topsfield?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"A good pool of software engineers (from Microsoft) and proximity to one of the largest book distributors in the country. They also wanted to stay out of larger states so they would limit the number of people they'd have to charge taxes to. Why is Microsoft in Washington, you might ask? That's where Bill Gates is from."
Wrong? Microsoft is in Washington. You seem to just want to disagree with me even when you send me links showing me I'm right. I never said they were founded in Washington. Why did they end up in Washington? That's where Bill Gates is from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
"And this pretty much encapsulates everything wrong with what you've said. You think needing jobs is a big selling point. It's a HUGE turn-off. I think a place like Boston would be a good choice for Amazon and a bad choice for people already in Boston. I think Springfield would be a good choice for Springfield and a bad choice for Amazon. Unfortunately Amazon gets to decide, not me."
No not really a turnoff. Again have you ever hired anyone or a company? I've dealt with companies that didn't "need" the work. Ok fine I can't force them to work for me but that just means I have to find those that do. If someone doesn't really need work they are less apt to go for it. It is hard to explain to a board room and shareholders that you decided to spend more just because you wanted to compete for other talent on a whim. The no poaching lawsuit in the bay area left a bad taste in peoples mouths. Also remember Mass gradually is getting rid of non competes so if Amazon or anyone else thinks they can force them they can't. EMC tried to fight it but often times this backfires during layoffs. It's hard to argue someone doesn't bring value and they get laid off but then can't work for a competitor because they *DO* have value
If businesses were automatically attracted to high costs then why did factories move further south and then via globalization move overseas If costs were not a factor it all would have stayed domestically. Gateway cities are a perfect example. Lowell, Lawrence and Lynn with textiles, Fall River and New Bedford with whale oil and fishing, Brockton with shoes etc.[/quote]
You don't hire the person no one else wants to hire. Business aren't automatically attracted to high COL areas. High margin businesses like Amazon, Google, Apple, Goldman Sachs, and Facebook seem to be. Low margin manufacturing businesses definitely want to go to low cost of living places. It depends where on the value chain a company sits. When employee costs are not the most important aspect of the business (i.e. pretty much anyone can do this), lowering expenses is vital.
Again, this isn't about which is the better place to live, just where is more likely for Amazon to choose. Boston has a lot of negatives that make it unlikely to be the choice. Springfield either doesn't or only loosely even meets the stated criteria. I'd put Boston's percentage chances in the high single digits and Springfield's below 0.1%.
Last edited by jayrandom; 11-09-2017 at 08:39 PM..
"They're not building a data center, they're building a headquarters. Iowa seems to be a popular location for those data centers."
Right and AWS certainly needs data and data needs power.
"As in the Kellogg School of Business at Northwestern? Which UMass campus is that affiliated with? Amazon will likely hire a good candidate from anywhere, but I don't think they will be recruiting heavily from UMass Boston if they relocate to Boston, but will likely focus on Harvard, MIT, BU, BC, Tufts, Northeastern, Bentley, and Olin. That UMass Boston isn't as good as UMass Amherst is probably both true and irrelevant to Amazon."
Yes Kellogg. I'm fine wherever they attempt to get but I'm not looking at where they are getting people but where they are moving to. You do realize that people can move..right? Not all companies in boston operate just in Boston. Even Mass Mutual operates in Boston and yet the headquarters is still in Springfield.
"It's a rebuttal to an irrelevant argument. Amazon doesn't care that Springfield has an ABA team and access to a AA baseball team. That's literally a selling point for no one, even the poor kids that are playing on that AA baseball team."
It's simply something of entertainment just as the Pawsox look to ultimately go to Worcester. It's not a matter of Amazon caring but what entertainment brings to an area.
"And there is a train to Gillette on Patriot Gamedays. It is more than $6, but I'd guess Patriot's tickets are more than Yard Goat tickets, too. "
And with the NFL there are 16 regular season games and half are at home so eight sundays it gets busy. It's a nice place don't get me wrong I like the shopping plaza more than the team itself. Kraft didn't have to make it but he did a great job.
"I've heard good things about the fair, although Wikipedia describes it as "The Big E, also known as The Eastern States Exposition, is billed as "New England's Great State fair". It is the largest agricultural event on the eastern seaboard and the seventh-largest fair in the nation.[2] The Big E is inclusive of all six of the New England states: Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, and Vermont. Each of the New England states is prominently represented at the fair."
Amazon doesn't care. I'm not trashing Springfield, it's just that none of this is all that relevant. Why isn't it in Boston? Why is the Topsfield fair in Topsfield? "
Because that's where it's from rather than holding a regional state fair. Local vs regional huge difference. It does attract other bands and companies. The fairgrounds itself has events around the year.
"Wrong? Microsoft is in Washington. You seem to just want to disagree with me even when you send me links showing me I'm right. I never said they were founded in Washington. Why did they end up in Washington? That's where Bill Gates is from."
Right and he also had to go to Harvard and drop out. It's not like he stayed in Washington all the time.
"You don't hire the person no one else wants to hire. Business aren't automatically attracted to high COL areas. High margin businesses like Amazon, Google, Apple, Goldman Sachs, and Facebook seem to be. Low margin manufacturing businesses definitely want to go to low cost of living places. It depends where on the value chain a company sits. When employee costs are not the most important aspect of the business (i.e. pretty much anyone can do this), lowering expenses is vital."
Right but the margin on businesses varies all over the place. The fact of the matter is the labor market is very tight and I already asked you if you ever hired anyone or any company. Yes or no? I don't mean for five figures but rather six. At this point if someone is interviewing for a job and they already have one chances are they could be shopping around for job offers to get a raise and you cannot assume you are the only one they are interviewing with. This is a far cry from 2008. I know people at staffing companies pulling their hair out to get more people.
There's asking prices and then there are selling prices. This is why many employers drop their standards to get someone in the door. Bidding higher for talent might work for some but not all. Outreach efforts are now provided to groups that normally were considered unemployable. https://www.wsj.com/articles/ex-conv...bor-1501156800 I've been headhunted twice in the past few years, my supervisor once. This really does feel like the late 1990's all over again in more ways than one. I've seen more places looking for help today then I have since then.
I would argue everyone that has the basic credentials is already working. So you two options. Compete in the labor market and bid higher somehow and then go back to your board to say why or lower the standards and hire. In government if you don't spend the money it gets cut, in non profits if you don't spend the money it also gets cut or it makes grants smaller, in the private sector if you don't spend it goes back to the shareholders, marketing, m&a or r&d.
Heck some even think Detroit could be in the game for it. Given what Dan Gilbert did with Quicken it wouldn't surprise me given the amount of space they have.
"Again, this isn't about which is the better place to live, just where is more likely for Amazon to choose. Boston has a lot of negatives that make it unlikely to be the choice. Springfield either doesn't or only loosely even meets the stated criteria. I'd put Boston's percentage chances in the high single digits and Springfield's below 0.1%."
Keep in mind Amazon said "metro area" if they moved to some small town in western CT that's still in the NYC metro area. I see costs and space being the major factors regardless of where they go. Also keep in mind the Boston Chamber of Commerce supports expanding the commuter rail to Springfield. They wouldn't do this unless they had a need for more labor, much of which has a lower education and lower skills.
We have 9,000-11,000 baby boomers retiring every day, drug abuse taking significant amounts of able bodied men out of the workforce (women but mostly men) Opioid Crisis Dragging Down Labor Force Participation Rate | Fortune , a high incarceration rate and further restrictions on legal and illegal immigration. This labor market will be tight for quite some time as long as these factors remain true. I've seen projects delayed if not cancelled because they cannot find enough people. Automation is great but not everything can be automated. So maybe this means you give a second change. You hire someone without a degree, maybe a slight mark on their record, maybe out of a halfway house. Do you want to play an auction house or moneyball In project management these are called change orders and are fairly common.
It’s basically impossible to respond to the above on my phone. And it seems you’ve strayed far from the original topic toward broader trends in the economy, the desirability of Springfield, and who I’ve been involved in hiring (yes, and languishing on the market is a huge turnoff).
Amazon has low pay jobs and high pay jobs. The HQ2 is believed to be looking for the latter. I’m not sure whether they want a high COL place or a low COL place, but whatever advantages Springfield has wrt cost, large Southern cities have, along with actually meeting the stated criteria.
Washington State, where Amazon and Microsoft are currently headquartered, has no personal income tax.
MA is up against places like TX where not only is there no personal income tax, but also no corporate income tax.
Connecticut? Really? It's a case study in economic collapse.
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Factoring in that there's a huge redevelopment boom in the city, I think you'll hear a lot of people in 5 years saying that they can't believe how much it has changed, and for the better.
