Worcester Woo Sox? (Boston, Springfield, New Bedford: city hall, buying, schools)

[rethcir]

Originally Posted by mdovell

As much as I might like to personally see it built porterhouse is correct. RI has a bad taste from the Curt Shilling incident. Trust me they don't forget.

If you want ice hockey Springfield has the Thunderbirds with a great crowd and Hartford has the Wolfpack. Gradually I think Hartford has become the minor league capital of the country but that's just me.

Minor league sports are fine as they are cheaper than the majors but I just can't really see this as pressing need in the state. I rather see it towards roads, bridges, healthcare, transit etc.

Worcester has a minor league team again, the Worcester Railers. Went to their opening day - fun time, once we got in, but claustrophobic in there.

[CaseyB]

Originally Posted by rethcir

Worcester has a minor league team again, the Worcester Railers. Went to their opening day - fun time, once we got in, but claustrophobic in there.

The DCU center is pretty small.

[MMS02760]

Originally Posted by rethcir

Worcester has a minor league team again, the Worcester Railers. Went to their opening day - fun time, once we got in, but claustrophobic in there.

It is its third minor league team in just the last two decades as two former AHL teams (Icecats and Sharks) didn't last all that long in the city. The Railers just finished their inaugural season and after a lot of ownership investment and promotion drew a little below the ECHL league average.

[The_General]

Yeah but Boston's team is a huge thing. If the Worcester Sharks players were good they'd go play in San Jose. Nobody would watch the Providence Bruins if they were the Providence Sharks.

[MMS02760]

Originally Posted by The_General

Yeah but Boston's team is a huge thing. If the Worcester Sharks players were good they'd go play in San Jose. Nobody would watch the Providence Bruins if they were the Providence Sharks.

No doubt that the Boston major league team connection is huge. When interest in the Bosox was at its peak in the early 2000's, it translated over to the Pawsox and helped them lead the International league in attendance several times. A Red Sox team in Worcester will have that advantage. Given however that most attendees at games come from within 30 miles, I just don't think the smaller metro Worcester area can ever achieve the numbers that the team did in Pawtucket (within the larger Providence metro). Worcester's lack of any local tv also hurts. All four RI network affiliate newscasts air Pawsox scores and highlights numerous times throughout the day giving the team added free PR. That won't be the case in Worcester where their main tv news source are Boston stations which are very unlikely to give the Woosox any coverage. The two AHL teams that recently left Worcester listed no local tv as a drawback which contributed to their departure.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by MMS02760

No doubt that the Boston major league team connection is huge. When interest in the Bosox was at its peak in the early 2000's, it translated over to the Pawsox and helped them lead the International league in attendance several times. A Red Sox team in Worcester will have that advantage. Given however that most attendees at games come from within 30 miles, I just don't think the smaller metro Worcester area can ever achieve the numbers that the team did in Pawtucket (within the larger Providence metro). Worcester's lack of any local tv also hurts. All four RI network affiliate newscasts air Pawsox scores and highlights numerous times throughout the day giving the team added free PR. That won't be the case in Worcester where their main tv news source are Boston stations which are very unlikely to give the Woosox any coverage. The two AHL teams that recently left Worcester listed no local tv as a drawback which contributed to their departure.

That's actually a pretty good point. But this also bumps into the weird agreements that leagues have about having teams a certain amount of a distance away from each other. When the whole Hartford yard goats The Vape started selling Springfield wanted to bring back baseball. Although some of the schematics did look interesting they're frankly isn't as much of a crowd for here. Basketball and soccer might work. Ice hockey is long ingrained here and when the Falcons left it was a scramble and some business owners got the team from Maine to come down here.

To a point though with TV and radio coverage it might detract a bid from League attendance. I can understand hearing the game because I've got Sirius XM and they've got licensing agreements I can hear a huge amount of games across the country if not world. But the bargaining power that a minor league team might bring simply isn't going to get on satellite radio and would have a bit of a harder time finding TV coverage.

Well it is true that in Rhode Island you can get coverage that's also because it's a pretty small state but there's also the Bates about what channels get covered. Generally speaking over the air television is supposed to be covered by cable companies but there were attempts in the past of Rhode Island stations asking Bristol County Cable Systems to be included. Currently there are debates in the Berkshires about cable companies that have dropped Boston Affiliates and even Springfield stations. It's technically closer to Albany.

Media coverage is certainly a pretty interesting thing. For a while the PBS Affiliates in Connecticut would actually have a whole Channel just high school sports. I thought it was a great idea but then they got rid of it. Online streaming can work but it all goes back to your audience. When I think minor leagues I think family-friendly, low-cost food and drinks, easy parking and pretty low-key atmosphere.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by MMS02760

Given however that most attendees at games come from within 30 miles, I just don't think the smaller metro Worcester area can ever achieve the numbers that the team did in Pawtucket (within the larger Providence metro).

To draw this conclusion, you'd have to know demographic and location of current attendees. A higher CSA doesn't mean much if few residents of Fall River or New Bedford are in attendance and/or if current attendance has a large share or Worcester and Boston CSA.

Additionally, average attendance has been going steadily down at McCoy. Whether this is a lack of local interest, poor management, or a general decline in baseball ... who knows.

2008: 8931
2009: 8937
2010: 8343
2011: 8225
2012: 7280
2013: 7827
2014: 7367
2015: 6572
2016: 6076
2017: 6406
2018: 5277

The Lowell Spinner's are putting up 3,200 with single A ball. Having attended a number of their games, I can say few of the attendees are actually from Lowell - it's all southern NH and 495/3 'burb towns. No reason to believe the same crowd won't make the drive to Worcester to see AAA ball. If Worcester can gain the northern and eastern attendees while retaining a percentage of the Pawtucket crowd, I see no reason why they can't better current attendance numbers.

[MMS02760]

Originally Posted by Shrewsburried

To draw this conclusion, you'd have to know demographic and location of current attendees. A higher CSA doesn't mean much if few residents of Fall River or New Bedford are in attendance and/or if current attendance has a large share or Worcester and Boston CSA.

Additionally, average attendance has been going steadily down at McCoy. Whether this is a lack of local interest, poor management, or a general decline in baseball ... who knows.

2008: 8931
2009: 8937
2010: 8343
2011: 8225
2012: 7280
2013: 7827
2014: 7367
2015: 6572
2016: 6076
2017: 6406
2018: 5277

The Lowell Spinner's are putting up 3,200 with single A ball. Having attended a number of their games, I can say few of the attendees are actually from Lowell - it's all southern NH and 495/3 'burb towns. No reason to believe the same crowd won't make the drive to Worcester to see AAA ball. If Worcester can gain the northern and eastern attendees while retaining a percentage of the Pawtucket crowd, I see no reason why they can't better current attendance numbers.

The Pawsox decline mirrors the lower interest in the Bosox after winning the second World Series and more recently is due in part to the bad feeling surrounding the teams demands for a new stadium. The numbers the seasons right before:



2000 8,733
2001 9,256
2002 9,052
2003 8,016
2004 9,387
2005 9,561
2006 9,289
2007 8,860




The only current PawSox fans the Woosox would retain are those living in the Boston area. The vast majority that live in and around McCoy will not be going along with the team if it moves. There will be a lot of ill will/anger and people will also not want to drive that far to a game. Worcester, if it gets the team, will have to develop its own entirely new fan base. They better hope lots of people in Massachusetts break from the norm and head to Worcester.


I just don't see the Woosox ever hitting the numbers the Pawsox did in the early 2000's, especially considering the April weather in Worcester for the early games.

[Shrewsburried]

Originally Posted by MMS02760

The only current PawSox fans the Woosox would retain are those living in the Boston area. The vast majority that live in and around McCoy will not be going along with the team if it moves. There will be a lot of ill will/anger and people will also not want to drive that far to a game. Worcester, if it gets the team, will have to develop its own entirely new fan base. They better hope lots of people in Massachusetts break from the norm and head to Worcester.

I'd argue there's already ill will post-Mondor, as seen in the attendance number trends - turnstile counts have been pretty dismal this season.

[rethcir]

The Sox farm system has also been more or less emptied out by Trader Dave Dombrowski. Not a ton of sure thing prospects in the Sox system right now. Probably affects attendence at least somewhat