Amtrak and MassDOT piloting new Valley Flyer service in Western Mass (Boston: mover, homes)

[OyCrumbler]

Originally Posted by RBThescot

I live in Greenfield, haven't actually tried it. Never will. No reason to. I've posted several times earlier in this thread with my take on it. Look it up, I don't want to repeat myself.

Most of the people posting in this thread are Connecticut people arguing about how it affects CT and the CT cities'/Stamford relationship to NYC. In general, people here in Franklin/Hampshire counties have no connection to Stamford/NYC. I don't care at all what goes on there.

What we need in Western Mass is transportation service to Boston, our capital city. I've come to realize that I don't want the train at all, or the development and attitudes it would inflict on us. We have a good deal here. I don't want to see it ruined with the high real estate costs, commuter problems, and crime that opening us up to Boston and New York people would bring.

They can keep their train. Not interested. Please pass by here without stopping.

I think given the length of time for travel, NYC is a stretch outside of weekend or longer trips. It’s a lot more oriented towards Springfield, Hartford, and possibly Bradley Airport and New Haven.

I think it’s generally silly to think it’s an either/or proposition in regards to this service versus a train to Boston that you want (and that I want as well), because there was no either/or here. The Valley Flyer was implemented because it was mostly there already due to Connecticut’s investment into the Hartford Line. It costs Massachusetts little and yet provides for service in four western Massachusetts cities with Greenfield, Northampton, Holyoke, and Springfield whether or not the majority are going to NYC which to me sounds incredibly unlikely.

Your take on this seems odd to me because part of what can compel federal and state investment into western Massachusetts rail and mass transit service in general is proof that there is ridership potential—which the Hartford Line and the Valley Flyer line would greatly bolster. If this fails, then the chances of a Springfield to Boston line with any frequency then dips down considerably for the next several years or longer. Also, wouldn’t the Greenfield to Springfield stretch be a lot more useful for a train ride from Greenfield to Boston if you actually had some frequency to Springfield for a transfer in the event of a frequent Springfield to Boston run?

Anyhow, none of what you said answers what I’m asking. You haven’t even given the train a shot to see what it’s like so you don’t answer the question and apparently you intend to never do so. Great, I guess, but I’m asking to hear from people who have.

[jxzz]

Originally Posted by OyCrumbler

I think given the length of time for travel, NYC is a stretch outside of weekend or longer trips. It’s a lot more oriented towards Springfield, Hartford, and possibly Bradley Airport and New Haven.

I think it’s generally silly to think it’s an either/or proposition in regards to this service versus a train to Boston that you want (and that I want as well), because there was no either/or here. The Valley Flyer was implemented because it was mostly there already due to Connecticut’s investment into the Hartford Line. It costs Massachusetts little and yet provides for service in four western Massachusetts cities with Greenfield, Northampton, Holyoke, and Springfield whether or not the majority are going to NYC which to me sounds incredibly unlikely.

Your take on this seems odd to me because part of what can compel federal and state investment into western Massachusetts rail and mass transit service in general is proof that there is ridership potential—which the Hartford Line and the Valley Flyer line would greatly bolster. If this fails, then the chances of a Springfield to Boston line with any frequency then dips down considerably for the next several years or longer. Also, wouldn’t the Greenfield to Springfield stretch be a lot more useful for a train ride from Greenfield to Boston if you actually had some frequency to Springfield for a transfer in the event of a frequent Springfield to Boston run?

Anyhow, none of what you said answers what I’m asking. You haven’t even given the train a shot to see what it’s like so you don’t answer the question and apparently you intend to never do so. Great, I guess, but I’m asking to hear from people who have.

fair take, I think you have realistic read on the whole thing on Western mass rail.

Lots of western mass people seem to have naive take that massDOT or Fed will simply put money into East West Rail Boston/Springfield without looking at ridership on Valley flyer or CTrail Hartford Line.

The perception is that Northampton is motherload of potential riders who are eager to come to CT/NYC or Boston for all kinds of things. It may be true, but ridership of Valley Flyer or CTrail need to show up before any new investment can come.

For yeas I have noticed that dramatic different attitude on rail investments MA verses CT. CT always seem to gamble big on rails funding three rails covering almost whole state plus Springfield while MA is timid and unwilling to spend beyond eastern mass. For one thing, I know the reason of the difference. CT economy is not doing so well in recent decades, it does not have population of urban cities like NYC or Boston. The rail gambling is hope or dream to incorporate all small cities population on rails to provide jobs or economic scale to compete with NYC or Boston. Think of this, adding up all Western Mass population including those northampton plus CT, the population is huge, matching those Boston or NYC. I am not sure CT rail gambling will pan out or not in the end economically, but as New Haven residents, I certainly support more rail infrastructure in whole new england area, it certainly helps on life style or economic opportunities without need of moving to big cities. The worst thing would be, because of lacking jobs, rural town residents have to leave comfortable cheap houses and relocate to big cities like NYC or Boston. The mega trend of losing population is true already for young population in CT or Western Mass. Only big cities like NYC or Boston are doing well economically in recent years.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by jxzz

Most New Haven co residents work in downtown New Haven or nearby places.

Can't imagine there is that much decent employment in New Haven. Taking the train from NH to Stamford makes much more sense. To me it seems like Hartford is a way better employment area than NH.

[jxzz]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

Can't imagine there is that much decent employment in New Haven. Taking the train from NH to Stamford makes much more sense. To me it seems like Hartford is a way better employment area than NH.

Hartford area, also New London/Groton has some defense jobs, stable. Insurance is stable industry too over last 10 years. NH or STM has none of that.

CT economic wreck in past 10 years started in fairfield county, or Stamford specifically, see this to know all:
https://nypost.com/2016/12/20/once-t...nearly-vacant/
Once the world’s largest, UBS trading floor now nearly vacant, Dec 2016

Those trader jobs are high paid jobs, well into 6 figures, maybe doubling or tripling average engineer salary level. They were all gone in Stamford replaced by robot, algorithm, artificial intelligence trading, which tend to have jobs in Boston or Silicon Valley. Imagine the ripple effect in Stamford, those high end restaurants for those rich traders, all gone and shut down.

New Haven has lots of commuters to fairfield co, got big hit too. Housing price maybe dropped 30% in fairfield co over last 10 years, 20% drop in New Haven, maybe dropped less than 10% in Hartford.

Hartford was lucky, but may not be lucky in the future, robot is going after insurance job too in the future.

New Haven has its own jobs too, Yale, medical, high tech start up etc, but not enough to withstand the woes in last 10 years, hence the housing price drop.

On the other hand, how low can Stamford or New Haven go? not much. It will bottom out because if the price is cheap enough, NYers will relocate and business will move to Stamford, which has been happening, and booming for construction in Stamford downtown.

In the long run, Stamford/New Haven/Hartford/New London are all in different economic industries, best area for jobs and life style is still between New Haven and Stamford in my opinion. That is why three CT commuter rails are centered around New Haven, not Hartford. Everybody knows that.

[mdovell]

Originally Posted by jxzz

Hartford was lucky, but may not be lucky in the That is why three CT commuter rails are centered around New Haven, not Hartford. Everybody knows that.

Well I an be critical of CT but Hartford does have some nice things. The park by the capital feels like central park, the biggest farmers market outside of NYC and Boston is in Hartford. I've been there but it's mostly for restaurants. You have to get there early like 5-6am.

The trouble with Hartford is its so small that the buildings tend to block viewing the smaller things.

CT also still has happy hour. Might not mean much but I went to the Russian lady once and it was pack. I was physically at the bar itself and it still took a half hour for a drink. That's packed!

[jxzz]

Originally Posted by mdovell

Well I an be critical of CT but Hartford does have some nice things. The park by the capital feels like central park, the biggest farmers market outside of NYC and Boston is in Hartford. I've been there but it's mostly for restaurants. You have to get there early like 5-6am.

The trouble with Hartford is its so small that the buildings tend to block viewing the smaller things.

CT also still has happy hour. Might not mean much but I went to the Russian lady once and it was pack. I was physically at the bar itself and it still took a half hour for a drink. That's packed!

To say Hartford capitol park is like NYC central park, that is stretching a bit. There are a lot CT residents who are more familiar with NYC Central Park than Hartford park. My old job old office in NYC was near Central Park and we used to walk inside park that a lot after work. I only had one day tour in Hartford and walked around Hartford downtown, not too familar with Hartford, but no, Hartford capital park is not even close to that of Central Park.

Hartford metro is quite solid on economics. But somehow Hartford city or downtown has bad reputation. It will take long time to overcome the perception and make the downtown great again.

This is not the case for New Haven or Stamford downtown. Both cities have some cool factors with good reputations on their downtowns.

BTW, I only heard of this happy hour law in MA here online. It sounds silly for MA to impose this kind of ban. Neither CT nor NY has that.

[KEVIN_224]

The judges were looking for BUSHNELL Park. The stone arch is at the east edge of that while the Connecticut state house is the southern side of the park. You'll be at Union Station once you cross Asylum Street (north side). The XL Center is three blocks east.

[yesmaybe]

Originally Posted by jxzz

This is not the case for New Haven or Stamford downtown. Both cities have some cool factors with good reputations on their downtowns.

What? It's been awhile since I've been there but New Haven was always considered super ghetto.

[jxzz]

Originally Posted by yesmaybe

What? It's been awhile since I've been there but New Haven was always considered super ghetto.

Here is fact, median house hold income, Dec 17,2018:
https://patch.com/connecticut/across...ome-nationally

Stamford $84,893.00 way higher number, but probably close to bottom compared to its neighbor towns.
New Haven $39,191.00 ~ 16% higher than Hartford, considering all those College Yale students residents, not that bad on the number
Hartford $33,841.00 , poorest, the bottom one

Over the last 10 years, a lot has changed. suburb is more of struggling on economy, Downtowns like New Haven or Stamford are on up trend, getting better and better.

[yesmaybe]

IIRC Hartford doesn't have much of a city population, it's mostly office space. I guess who actually lives in the city must be really poor.