2021 Real Estate Observations (Boston, Weymouth, Salem: best town, brokers, calculated)

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by msRB311

Would it end being much less than 825k at this point? Probably not. Might as well have your space and eat it too.

Yes it would you just don't know how many units of that housing they have. Theres soo much. There are 825k ones in the blue-chip suburbs of DC in VA but they're absolutely massive.

829k Alexandria VA

https://www.trulia.com/builder-commu...ker/9069987019

375k Arlington VA- ~5 miles from DC proper

https://www.trulia.com/p/va/arlingto...04--2090627494

440k Washington DC

https://www.trulia.com/p/dc/washingt...32--2090406196

399k Silver Spring MD

https://www.trulia.com/p/md/silver-s...10--2019134135

545k Alexandria VA

https://www.trulia.com/p/va/alexandr...04--2020588095

Then there are other luxury ones going for over 1 million. it's all about OPTIONS and economic diversity/integration. New England towns don't do well with that except for rough around-the-edges urban areas. And that still comes in the form of vertical wooden 100 year old apartments as opposed to you getting multiple floors in suburbia, modern construction.

[msRB311]

I think many people want to live in their own house with their own yard and not have to worry about seeing a neighbor in the hallway or on the elevator or loud noises. I think plenty of people already do live the condo/townhouse life and pay a lot for it but it's not for everyone. I might be missing the point youre trying to make though? I mean people in the Boston area have options but they are $$ regardless.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by msRB311

I think many people want to live in their own house with their own yard and not have to worry about seeing a neighbor in the hallway or on the elevator or loud noises. I think plenty of people already do live the condo/townhouse life and pay a lot for it but it's not for everyone. I might be missing the point youre trying to make though? I mean people in the Boston area have options but they are $$ regardless.

the point is if you want affordability you have to allow that type of development in suburbia. Without it the are will never be reasonable. Obviously many many people don't mind it. Virginia and Maryland are very populous wealthy states. It's mostly a MA culture thing that prevents affordability. In general, this region doesn't take ideas from other regions and that's why it can be stagnant and difficult. Things that work well in other states we reject in MA. I say this all the time.

By opening up, suburban areas to density prices are alleviated everywhere. You're not gonna see a neighbor in the hallway in those townhomes because you don't share a hallway...there are no elevators.....the walls are thick. I live in a rowhome right now- take my word for it. The issue with new development in MA is its all that big block apartment style with the aforementioned elevators and hallways. That's much rarer here. Townhomes are preferred in the suburbs. Big Box apartments are for DC and baltimore.

People don't have nearly as many options because three a huge dearth of middle-class housing available in decent towns. Much less the case here-which is probably why this is the 2nd biggest state for departure from MA. I see at least one MA/CT plate here every single day. I literally live a few blocks from a girl I know who grew up in Milton. Indeed I've got many MA friends here.

[porterhouse]

Mortgage rates now firmly on the way up. This should (eventually) cool down some of the speculative appreciation. We'll see what impacts this has, both in terms of real purchasing power in certain price ranges, but also the psychological impact. I'm continually surprised by the comments from younger people in particular, in regard to mortgage rates. Something like 6% for a 30 year fixed would probably dissuade some from buying and cause a lot of social media angst. In reality that is a fantastic rate historically.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Dense detached homes in an African american section of Maryland

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9215...7i16384!8i8192


the same "community also offer a range of a attached and semi detached homes: https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9243...7i16384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9265...7i13312!8i6656

And retail:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.9224...7i16384!8i8192

Now before people say its impossible to build like that in MA, remind you that Maryland is the 5th densest state in the nation and both the Baltimore and Washington MSA ae more densely populated than Bostons MSA...

Its a shame to me that people in MA deprive themselves of these types of developments because of the town meeting set up. Too much pride in the struggle.

[id77]

Originally Posted by porterhouse

Mortgage rates now firmly on the way up. This should (eventually) cool down some of the speculative appreciation. We'll see what impacts this has, both in terms of real purchasing power in certain price ranges, but also the psychological impact. I'm continually surprised by the comments from younger people in particular, in regard to mortgage rates. Something like 6% for a 30 year fixed would probably dissuade some from buying and cause a lot of social media angst. In reality that is a fantastic rate historically.

Assuming inventory also goes up.

If there's only 1-2 properties in a neighborhood that meet the requirements for 20 buyers, whether rates are 3% or 8% isn't going to matter since the likelihood that at least 1-2 of those 20 buyers can either do a substantial down payment or all cash is pretty high.

[msRB311]

I'm not sure the rising mortgage rates will make much of a difference in MA.

[id77]

Originally Posted by BostonBornMassMade

the point is if you want affordability you have to allow that type of development in suburbia. Without it the are will never be reasonable. Obviously many many people don't mind it. Virginia and Maryland are very populous wealthy states. It's mostly a MA culture thing that prevents affordability. In general, this region doesn't take ideas from other regions and that's why it can be stagnant and difficult. Things that work well in other states we reject in MA. I say this all the time.

By opening up, suburban areas to density prices are alleviated everywhere. You're not gonna see a neighbor in the hallway in those townhomes because you don't share a hallway...there are no elevators.....the walls are thick. I live in a rowhome right now- take my word for it. The issue with new development in MA is its all that big block apartment style with the aforementioned elevators and hallways. That's much rarer here. Townhomes are preferred in the suburbs. Big Box apartments are for DC and baltimore.

People don't have nearly as many options because three a huge dearth of middle-class housing available in decent towns. Much less the case here-which is probably why this is the 2nd biggest state for departure from MA. I see at least one MA/CT plate here every single day. I literally live a few blocks from a girl I know who grew up in Milton. Indeed I've got many MA friends here.

People who do want that style of development have options throughout the US today, so why must MA also be like everywhere else? Where do people who see living in towns with cookie-cutter townhomes as a negative live?

I'm sure you see this as playing right into your narrative, but that's sort of the point. There's an assumption that the NIMBYs simply don't know how good they could have it, when the reality is they like what they already have in MA more than this alternative universe where MA suburbs look like MD, UT, CA, and 40 other states' suburbs. MA is what it is because it doesn't want or need to be another MD. People unhappy in MA can move there and people unhappy elsewhere can move here. Having options besides the US equivalent of Soviet Constructivism is a good thing.

[BostonBornMassMade]

Originally Posted by id77

People who do want that style of development have options throughout the US today, so why must MA also be like everywhere else? Where do people who see living in towns with cookie-cutter townhomes as a negative live?

I'm sure you see this as playing right into your narrative, but that's sort of the point. There's an assumption that the NIMBYs simply don't know how good they could have it, when the reality is they like what they already have in MA more than this alternative universe where MA suburbs look like MD, UT, CA, and 40 other states' suburbs. MA is what it is because it doesn't want or need to be another MD. People unhappy in MA can move there and people unhappy elsewhere can move here. Having options besides the US equivalent of Soviet Constructivism is a good thing.

Facepalm.

yes if you want affordable homes go somewhere other than MA because attitudes like yours are the norm elitism and painful exceptionalism. And if you're not elite? f- off. I've got mine. F you.

For that reason, it will never be affordable and perpetually push its middle class away. An entire state of whiners and complainers unwilling to make the necessary changes to do anything to bring conditions back to sanity. It would be funny if it weren't ripping families apart.

The issue is you cant just move like that it cost 10 thousand dollars to move to UT or CA. If you're struggling you cant just do that. with what money?? That should go without saying.

But so long as you're content. I don't think I need to say anymore you're just circling the drain of nonsensical unaffordability. Lost cause. God's speed anyone who wasn't born pre 1980 or with a silver spoon.

No people who want to move here cant just "move here" it is too damn expensive. You know that. Well never know exactly how many people wanted to move to MA but couldn't due to NIMBY zoning. What makes MA MA isn't 1 acre lot minimus that one of the more preposterous things Ive read on this thread.

[Boston Shudra]

Originally Posted by id77

Where do people who see living in towns with cookie-cutter townhomes as a negative live?

Somewhere with a very low population density, maybe. Idaho? Northern Maine?

People unhappy in MA can move there and people unhappy elsewhere can move here.

Not always. Especially if moving here involves spending twice as much on housing cuz we never build any.