Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
After a long and emotionally draining rental hunting in the area 15 miles from Reading, it looks like we will have to settle for a house in North Andover. The house itself is predicted to meet our needs just fine.
The trouble is its specific location. That particular spot seems more rural than I can stomach, with the nearest grocery store about 5 miles away, requiring quite a bit of drive through endless woods.
Husband says I will get used to it but I am terrified kids will go insane with boredom there and that I will not have any places to run them to quickly during the day. If I fear that they may end up missing the Wall-Mart they now have in small-town Alabama, while we are temporarily living with husband's mother, then this is surely not a good sign.
That being said, what should we know about North Andover? Is it this rural everywhere? This house is located closer to Andover and Boxford (even though it has a North Andover address). What is there to do during the day? If we want to escape the darn woods, where to?
Any other information about North Andover will be highly appreciated. I did a search on other threads but I could not find that much info.
Also, does anyone know anything about Sargent Elementary School?
After one week visit to the Boston area I concluded that I LOVE Boston and its immediate, quaint (and unaffordable) small towns but I absolutely HATE MA rural areas. I find the MA laws against development taken to an insane extreme that only serves to maintain housing prices through the roof, so much the better for the old money in the region. After all, why not?
Yet, there is something seriously wrong when non-rich people who need a somewhat larger home than your typical 19th century crammed, run down space are forced to live in the woods, on country roads without electricity.
As "lefty" as I have been from Atlanta, I already have a feeling MA is going to make me see Glenn Beck's rants in a whoooole new light.
I long for a "common sense" spot on the political continuum in this country.
Thank you so much for any information you can provide about North Andover!
As "lefty" as I have been from Atlanta, I already have a feeling MA is going to make me see Glenn Beck's rants in a whoooole new light.
Syracusa, I'm scratching my head here. You have made very clear your distaste for the monotonous burbs of Atlanta. If I understand you correctly, you see these these vast stretches of housing as affordable, comfortable, and yet banal, uninspired.
Now you come to Mass. and see a stark difference from the Southern city you now call home. You find places that have charm, uniqueness yet many of the houses/apartments are ramshackle, small, and pricey. And now seem to be suggesting that you loathe the very tight rules on development that help constrain Mass. from turning into another Atlanta (or Dallsas, Pheonix, or any number of other sprawling sun belt metropolises filled with the ).
Look there's a choice: we can either allow developers to build housing as the market allows all over, say, North Andover. This will help expand the supply of housing (and, hence, lowering costs and/or improve quality) and eliminate the rural character that you dislike of the town. But the result will be more sprawling, monotonous 'burbs that you also dislike. Or we can restrict development in the interest of preserving the character and charm of Massachusetts communities -- but this means OLD and RURAL (or at least semi-rural....none of the communities surrounding Boston is truly rural) and it means less opportunity for developers to build new housing (and, hence, higher costs and/or lower quality)
No offense, but as I think I suggested at the outset, what you want doesn't exist. You want cool, urban/dense, trendy, and safe. Lots of room in good condition, with good schools. And cheap, of course. Good luck!
Regarding things to do: this can be tough in the winter. When the weather is nice most kids love to play outdoors. When its cold and dark so early (i.e. in winter) it can be a challenge. Many suburban communities have active parks and recreation offices that offer a variety of activities (look in your town and in neighboring towns). Public libraries are, of course, available. People take trips to the mall and/or big box stores just to let the kids run around indoors. And there are often local dance/gymnastics/athletic businesses that offer programs for kids.
Last edited by professorsenator; 11-10-2009 at 03:43 PM..
No offense, but as I think I suggested at the outset, what you want doesn't exist. You want cool, urban/dense, trendy, and safe. Lots of room in good condition, with good schools. And cheap, of course. Good luck!
Professor,
Absolutely no offense, because I think you were indeed right in the beginning. I disliked Atlanta suburbs as compared to traditional, taken care of urban areas (not deserted from white flight) or a quaint, walkable small town - which is pretty much all you'll find in Europe anywhere, save some unusual spots.
We found out that in MA these two options are simply not for mere mortals. However, I never said that I would like rural, completely undeveloped area better than modern, Atlanta type suburbs. If I only had these two choices, Atlanta-type modern developments would win. I found this out the hard way.
In other words, this is going to be a case from going from "bad" to "worse".
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsenator
You want cool, urban/dense, trendy, and safe. Lots of room in good condition, with good schools. And cheap, of course.
If you take "trendy" out and replace urban with "small town", you will see that such expectation should not be that unreasonable in a decent world. But this is no longer a "decent" world and you are right. We're outta luck.
The reality is people are here on this Earth and they need a place to live in accordance to 21st century demands. I really think that having a few commercial spots and some electricity on the roads in the rural areas would not kill the quaint-ness and authenticity of New England. From what I saw, I sincerely believe that MA laws are there to serve old money interests and to preserve their property values through the roof.
As for taking the kids out in bad weather, would you happen to know what might be the nearest mall to North Andover?
Thanks again for all your posts!
If you live in North Andover, you are lucky because you would be very close to all the tax free shopping in New Hampshire. Most people drive over the border to Salem where you will find numerous shopping options.
I really don't think you saw enough of Eastern Massachusetts when you were here. If you did, you wouldn't think that North Andover is "undeveloped". It's a pretty good sized, typical suburb in the greater Boston area. It is not out in the boonies, nor is it "old money" at all, it's middle class.
From what I saw, I sincerely believe that MA laws are there to serve old money interests and to preserve their property values through the roof...
You're not too far off here. The limits on development benefit ALL current property owners -- not just the "old money" (though they, obviously, benefit too). Thus, buying in Mass. is not unlike joining a club. There is a barrier to entry (cost) but once you're in it can be very comfortable (high quality of living, excellent opportunity for property value appreciation).
I am still torn about whether it is all good or bad -- on the whole I think Mass. has gone a bit too far toward the anti-growth end but I would NOT want the unfettered approach of many sun belt cities. There is what is called a "smart growth" movement that would at first glance appear to offer a happy medium. But in reality this movement is, at its core, mostly hostile toward development, and when such folks support growth it is usually very limited and with a distinct socio/political engineering agenda (i.e. they have a distinct anti-single family house bias, fondness for below-market-rate [i.e. subsidized] housing, skepticism about any large scale development, and an embrace of environmentalism that is, at times, irrational). I say this as a high-income homeowner who had no real problem getting into the club and who lives in (and benefits from) one of those wealthy, leafy Boston 'burbs. But I am keenly aware that there is a price for all this and that, in many ways, others pay a heavier price than I do for these policy decisions.
What drives this whole land use issue here in New England is a very deep seated conservatism. It is not a conservatism as in Republican Party/American politics conservatism. It is a conservatism in a more classic sense -- resistance to change, reverence for the past, an uncommon taste for the simplistic, and a general skepticism about that which is new.
In this way, New England is quite opposite from the Atlanta's and Dallas's of America, where growth and expansion are the values and goals that unite people across all sorts of different socio-economic fault lines and where that which is new is widely embraced (but then often quickly discarded for the even newer).
You know, I was a public transit and walking person all of my life. Even though I had driven various cars all over the world, I was seven months past my 33rd birthday before I first owned a car. And when I got that car, all of a sudden it was not easy to take the 73 bus to Harvard and transfer to the Red Line to spend Saturday downtown. I wanted to drive in comfort and pay $11 for the garage under Boston Common. Finally, after a few months of this, I made the conscious decision to wean myself of that bad habit and save the car for places I needed it to get to. Emphasis on need.
It seems to me that is a lot of what's going on with your housing situation. At the price of having to live in the woods outside Atlanta, you've had the opportunity to be relatively house-rich for little cash outlay, and you appear unwilling to give it up though eager to give up Atlanta itself. I recall earlier posts in which you mentioned that people in Metro Atlanta wouldn't be caught dead in some of the houses you'd seen near Boston. As people said then, this isn't Metro Atlanta. And most of the time, at least, it appears you think that's a good thing.
I understand your point about the regulations being set up to benefit those who already own property. And I understand that the humble wood my house is made of is not as sturdy as the 600-year-old stone used in European cities. I also know you're not looking for 5,000 tacky square feet and a half-dozen rooms you won't use. I haven't seen the places you've looked at, but I have seen places in your price range that seem to me to be beautiful. Maybe my standards are lower, I don't know, but I'm pretty picky. A friend looked at one place just a couple of weeks ago, with 4 BR and 2 baths, in a two-family right near us in Belmont. It was going for something like $2300 and appeared to be renovated and clean.
I've told dozens of people that there's a very limited range of Boston-area locales to look in if you're young and want an urban lifestyle with major nightlife. And there is a slightly larger list of communities, including Arlington, Newton, etc., if you're a family looking for something with any semblance of walkability and non-woodsiness. Many of those places are on the expensive side.
Once you get outside 128, or at least 5-10 miles past it, you're either in the woods or in a fairly distressed city like Lawrence, and there are not so many rentals large enough for a family like yours. That's the way it is in Massachusetts, for better or worse, and you're going to have to decide what has to give.
And I sincerely hope that you won't come to agree with a guy who spends most of his nights telling television audiences that Barack Obama is somehow a Nazi and a Stalinist all rolled into one freedom-ending package.
The woods are a lovely place to walk in, I firmly believe that you will come to discover this. A walk on a snowy path with your spouse is something that I hope you try at least once.
There is a certain quality of life that I think you will discover, once you are away from the Wal-marts and vast McMansions homes of Atlanta. It is good for kids to get a little bored and seek their own entertainment. My mother used to kick me outside and tell me to not come in until called for lunch.
I sense that you are feeling nervous about your impending move and are seeing all the potential pitfalls and hazards. I know how you feel because I am often the same way about other things.
I am humbled by the supportive replies. I must not have seen the entire North Andover but the spot where this house is located is a really remote one. On walkscore.com it received the whooping walkability score of ZERO.
My husband suggested we ask you about any winter-related problems in such a location. Would we be in danger of getting stuck in the house and not being able to drive to the grocery store (a few good miles away) during harsh winter days? What happens to those undeveloped country roads in situations like this? Do they freeze completely? Does anyone reserve any salt for them too? :-)
We would also appreciate any information about Sargent Elementary school.
Casey B, thank you for the NH suggestion because with the housing price we will have to pay in MA, we might as well do all the shopping tax-free in NH. Anything to contribute to survival.
ProfessorSenator, I love the kind of conservatism you described, practically speaking, these are principles I have always lived by (save the emphasis on overly simple esthetics, I like a bit of French "pretty" to just about anything ). Unfortunately, at this moment we are not in the "club" you were talking about and when applied to housing, such ideology doesn't exactly serve our needs right now. It's hard not to be resentful when you have to pay such a heavy price, even more so when the move was not by choice. We were forced to be newcomers in MA and this is one aspect I resent most. But I do understand how things look like walking in the owner's shoes.
Holden, we spent almost the entire week looking exactly at the two-family type of units you mentioned, in Belmont, Arlington, etc. We had very high hopes for such apartments before we arrived in MA, but once we saw them in person we realized we would not be able to fit all of our furniture and other belongings in such a place without severely crowding it. Some of our furniture pieces are taller than the ceilings in such apartments and we would have to just get rid of them, which we'd rather not do. Our townhouse in Atlanta, though not very large (1300-1400 sqf), had very tall ceilings so the furniture never overwhelmed the place.
I do know what you mean about the 5000 sqf of tacky space, and I could not agree more. When you live in the Atlanta area, your friends have them - that's a given. I have seen more than my share. I would never want to live in something that large in Georgia, Texas or Arizona, let alone in MA - especially not as poorly and inadequately furnished and decorated as most of these places usually end up. But I will admit that what got us spoilt in Georgia was the new construction.
When we returned from MA we dropped by our townhouse one more time before tenant moved in. After MA, I have renewed appreciation for our downright gorgeous place located in a spot with a gigantic "walkability" score. Walk to Whole Foods, Theater, Cinema, two grocery stores, tons of restaurants, tons of shops (both boutique and chain) and just about anything else I could imagine - all in an apparently secluded, private corner with a view to kill for.
We have one gem of a townhouse here, darn it ...built by a Persian builder in 2003 - elegant and unique by Atlanta standards. We rented it in mint, sparkling condition - beautiful hard-woods, fresh paint, brand new carpets and the jazz. It made it even harder for us to understand why Mass owners think it is perfectly OK for the tenant to want to move in with dingy walls, no general cleaning or ugly, worn-out carpets. After all, these cost as much to re-do/replace in MA as they cost in Atlanta.
Housing costs aside, it seems as if in MA dumpy overall condition is much more acceptable. We could have never afforded to NOT get the house in sparkling shape before attempting to rent it, not with the menacing competition from new construction.
So...I guess that's what they mean when they say the free market keeps you on your toes.
Holden - you said that "in general, there are not so many rentals for a family as large as ours". Now...for one second, I felt like the Duggard family. What is the average number of children per family in MA? Believe me, in retrospective, our decison to become parents does not look as smart. But still, is two a sacrilege in MA? Do most families there have onlies? ...
OK, Glenn Beck? Hmmmm, I'll think about it. I am still at a safe distance from embracing his rants, but at the rate at which I am losing my sanity with this move, I might join the ranks of the bitter, frustrated nuts soon enough.
We had one terrible ice storm last December in this region. Quite a lot of us never experienced this type of storm like this EVER before. We were without power for 6 days. It wasn't easy, but we got thru it. It kind of ruined our Christmas holiday last year though. Hopefully we don't get hit with one like that again. A lot of people to this day won't even discuss it they get so mad. We lost all our food in the freezer and thankfully we just installed a new hot water heater that worked remarkably well due to the type we had put in. We used our gas fireplace a lot with flash lights and all that. It was hard for our poor cats though, I felt so bad for them, OH and my elderly mother had a tough time too, but we got thru it and after staying a few nights at a hotel we decided to just hang out at the house at night with the flashlights and sweaters/sweatshirts.
Trust me, it doesn't happen like that around here too much, (honest, it doesn't!). That ice storm we had last year was very very unusual as a matter of fact. We being New Englanders are used to snowstorms and blizzards, but that was a tough one for a lot of us where we never experienced anything like that before.
During harsh winter days, we always have to make sure we stock up with plenty of food, you know the staples are the important things to have in the house. Check your batteries for the flashlights and make sure you have them around the house, scattered here & there. We now have three big "Eveready" yellow flashlights from Home Depot all around the house! We also wanted communication where we live, so we ended up going to the "Shack" (Radio Shack's new name go figure) for one of those Emergency Red Cross Radio's. It worked AWESOME during those 6 days without power. We ended up buying the last one in the store and believe me when I tell you this. It came in handy. You know those long matches for the fire? You can get them at the Christmas Tree Shop. THOSE came in handy for our fireplace. We're actually all so spoiled and SO fortunate that we only had this happen to us in all these years living in New England! We really lucked out thru the years.
You'll be fine where you are. Like I said and as you will read below when you get a minute, you are near SO MUCH more than me where I live!
You have no idea what being in the woods is like where you are, compared to where I am! You are really SO SO lucky you're only about 25 minutes from downtown Boston where you live, that's a dream to me! I'm telling you, try living further up the coast from where you are! You think it's easy, do you?!!!!
At least you have all the cool stores down near you! I don't even have a decent "Simon" Mall near me AT ALL but see that? YOU do! At least you can take off for NH's tax free shopping and be at a Simon Mall in no time! I can't do that that quick! You lucked out having the Mall at Rockingham in Salem, NH a hop skip and a jump from No. Andover:
Do you know how many Home Goods are near where you live? There's 25 of them just in New England now alone and all you have to do is hop on that highway near you and head up to the Salem, NH Plaza @ S. Broadway & Hagop Road to get to one OR you can go a few miles up the highway from you to the one in Tewksbury near their Marketbasket supermarket. I have to go ALL the way over on the dangerous rte 101 in NH to get to Bedford, NH to get to mine OR down to Danvers, MA where I'd have to pay your dreaded tax and that's not going to happen any time soon, (no way hozay), you lucked out and you don't even appreciate it just yet I bet!
If I want to visit my friends down in Boston, it's a whole day affair and it's planned for weeks with them on where we're going and when we're going to be there. You can zip in to Boston in less than 40 minutes and you're there from No. Andover.
I searched and I searched for a good allergist where I live and I mean I SEARCHED. You think I could get one that knew what was wrong with me? Course not. I ended up going to this incredibly talented physician that's even on Channel 5 now and then for allergy season every year and where is his office? Right in No. Andover, MA. He rescued me from dust and dust mites with those shots I got and believe me I was told to go there for a good 3 to 5 years and I was there like clock work because this physician and his staff figured out exactly what was wrong with me. He's Dr. Thomas F. Johnson, MD located at 555 Turnpike Street in No. Andover, MA., YOUR neck of the woods lady Jane and he's awesome, he's even a specialist for asthma and an Internal medicine specialist, he came highly recommended and believe me, I wouldn't go any where else if I had this happen to me again.
Merrimack College is in No. Andover @ 315 Turnpike Street right near where this Physician's office is. On Friday December 4th, 2009 there's a show at the Roger Center for the Arts at Merrimack College and it's called "Cherish The Ladies". If you don't get tickets to see it, you're out of your mind. It's going to be SO good, I'm driving down for it that night. There's a lot of us going to see this show. It's a Christmas Celtic show and it's going to be awesome:
The Dance Recital for the Nancy Chippendales Dance Studio is being held on May 22, 2010. Mark your calendar because it's not your ordinary dance recital, it's awesome to go to this one, you'd really like it a lot:
You have a Barnes & Nobles right in No. Andover, (I don't have one near me, you think it's easy!!??) it's at 562 Turnpike Street in No. Andover.
You have Harrison's Roast Beef at 80 Chickering Road in No. Andover I don't! They have the nice rolls there we don't have them where I live, so it's a treat to us when we are down in YOUR neck of the woods and trust me, they're wonderful there!
YOU also have the Butcher Boy Meat Market at 1077 Osgood Street, we don't have one as good as this one, no matter what we ever get here it's always out of this world, especially good for grilling in the warmer weather:
You have Joe Fish's Seafood restaurant on Osgood Street, it's pretty good there, so remember that and also you lucked out having the China Blossom in your town. We even drive down there sometimes it's that good. It's located at 946 Osgood Street. You also have a great woman's shop you know, it's called Chico's and it's at 119 Turnpike Street at the Osgood Crossing, I have to go all the way over to Concord, NH to get to mine.
We also think your Panera's Bread is much better than ours in the town of Portsmouth AND your Bertucci's Pizza is a LOT better than the one that we have to drive all the way over to Manchester for!
You also have the Andover Flower Farm & Country Store located at 2370 Turnpike St. in No. Andover. We love that place and have been there several times. Although, we have "Tuttle's Farm" in Dover, NH and it's the oldest family farm in America that's quite good:
You also have "The Vineyard" with a wide selection of fine wines, spirits and beers and gourmet cheeses and food and here they even do up gift baskets, I've driven down there over some holidays a few times, it's wonderful there:
In the nicer weather you have Richardson's Ice Cream not too far from you, it's located at 156 So. Main Street on Rte 114 in Middleton. GO there some day, it's really good.
You can get from No. Andover past Fuddrucker's that's wonderful by the way and located at 550 Turnpike Street and also called Rte 114 West. Well, you can go past Merrimack College, go past this Fuddrucker's (think burgers!) and stay on this road all the way heading east and you can get to Richardson's Ice Cream, you'll see it on the left hand side about 15 miles up the road I think it is. Also you can get to Carter's Diamonds on this same Rte. 114 in Danvers, MA., way beyond Carter's is a new Grassfields Restaurant, yes, it's a 2nd one, as the first one is located in Andover near their MarketBasket and Marshall's, well this newer 2nd Grassfields Restaurant is located right on Rte 114 near the Burlington Coat Factory, or I should say just beyond it on the left hand side. It's WONDERFUL there, actally the two locations are great, so remember this place, it's really good for family or friends get togethers. They specialize in steak and seafood, there Jumbo Maryland crabmeat pie is SO incredible here:
Like I said, there's one on Rte 114 in Danvers as well. So get in your car and cruise the north shore near where you live and check out some of these places. Get the tickets for the show at Merrimack College too and put it on your calendar in May for the Dance Recital, it's one that you will love to see, there's going to be a lot of people at both places to meet and see, it's fun to get out and do these type of things.
You're going to have to give it more time too, you're going to end up liking this area where you live I bet, it's just going to take time. Be patient too, you don't know the area yet. It took me several road trips before I found a lot of these places. I also think you should cruise thru Andover to see it, it's amazing to see the Academy and all around that whole area.
Too bad the "Andover Inn" in Andover right now is undergoing a major renovation as it won't be opening until 2011. So mark your calendar for 2011 and GO there, you hear me? It's going to be amazing when they're done. (It kind of needed a face lift any way, it was time!)
Hey good luck just the same! Go ahead, get out there and explore your new town a little more and this whole area outside the box you're in, you'll see what I mean!
Last edited by CityGirl52; 11-11-2009 at 12:14 AM..
Holden, we spent almost the entire week looking exactly at the two-family type of units you mentioned, in Belmont, Arlington, etc. We had very high hopes for such apartments before we arrived in MA, but once we saw them in person we realized we would not be able to fit all of our furniture and other belongings in such a place without severely crowding it. Some of our furniture pieces are taller than the ceilings in such apartments and we would have to just get rid of them, which we'd rather not do. Our townhouse in Atlanta, though not very large (1300-1400 sqf), had very tall ceilings so the furniture never overwhelmed the place.
Holden - you said that "in general, there are not so many rentals for a family as large as ours". Now...for one second, I felt like the Duggard family. What is the average number of children per family in MA? Believe me, in retrospective, our decison to become parents does not look as smart. But still, is two a sacrilege in MA? Do most families there have onlies? ...
OK, Glenn Beck? Hmmmm, I'll think about it. I am still at a safe distance from embracing his rants, but at the rate at which I am losing my sanity with this move, I might join the ranks of the bitter, frustrated nuts soon enough.
I've got no idea how tall your furniture is, or what apartments you looked at, but our place here in Belmont does not have particularly low ceilings. I'm a couple of inches over six feet and I'd notice. We have just under 1400 square feet for a 2 BR + office. My girlfriend's old place in Belmont (shared with roommates, total rent about $2500) had 5 bedrooms, 2 full baths, and an office. That one was about 2250 square feet.
Of course, the furniture just adds another wrinkle. I sympathize completely with how hard it is to find affordable housing around here. But it gets that much harder when you not only have a budget, you want (1) at least 3-4 bedrooms; (2) reasonably close to Reading; (3) in a fairly developed place and not in the woods; (4) not old, small, or run-down; (5) a very good school district; (6) high ceilings.
I certainly didn't mean to suggest that your family is exceptionally large. It's just that a lot of the rentals in the area, especially outside 128, are 1 and 2 bedrooms. Even 3 bedrooms are harder to find, and 4 and up are either nonexistent or pretty expensive. Here in Belmont I've seen $-BR single family homes no nicer than our old 5-BR in the 2-family house renting for $4000. The market for a home even that large is definitely skewed toward buying.
As is true of many people, you are a paradox, syracusa. If I recall correctly, your policy preference is for population control and your two kids are too much for you, not for me. Though of course you love them very much now that they're here! It is true, however, that people in MA tend to have fewer kids these days because it's so expensive here, and there are so many professional women whose time is already stretched thin. Parents couldn't handle 7 or 8 the way the big Irish families did it in the 50's.
You're also a paradox in that you've stated that you HATE the MA woods (really, on the basis of about 5 hours total in them), and you claim to hate them because you hated the GA woods. Now, your townhouse in GA is in a "secluded, private corner with a view to kill for." A week ago you "voted left" but now you're open to Glenn Beck because Mass. has high home prices? There's proof the move is making you insane!
Obviously, I have emotional attachments to this area that you don't have. But a few years ago I was qute frustrated. I had graduated from one of the best law schools in the nation, but hadn't taken a big, high-paying law firm job. I was struggling to put a decript roof over my head in New York, with three strangers for roommates in what used to be a 2-BR apartment. And it still took 45 minutes on the subway to get to work. In the meantime, a friend who hadn't finished college and on paper made less than I did was buying a beautiful 4-bedroom home near Dallas for well under $200,000. I had to ask myself if I would consider leaving NYC and saying goodbye to Boston, to live in the land of cheap housing. And I just couldn't. I did not want to live there, even at the cost of not having the nice cheap clean housing. So with that I made my peace and I still don't live in a place as nice as his house. He pays around $800 a month, while I pay four times that in New York and chip in for some of the rent in Belmont. I made the choice and, as much as I hate writing the check every month, I don't regret not moving to Dallas.
Right now it's not surprising that you're frustrated. But like many people before you who relocated to MA, you will ultimately select the house that comes closest to everything you want and you will get used to living in that house. And then, I hope, you will get out and explore all the great things New England has to offer and feel that, on balance, you're in a great place.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
). Unfortunately, at this moment we are not in the "club" you were talking about and when applied to housing, such ideology doesn't exactly serve our needs right now. It's hard not to be resentful when you have to pay such a heavy price, even more so when the move was not by choice. We were forced to be newcomers in MA and this is one aspect I resent most. But I do understand how things look like walking in the owner's shoes. 
...built by a Persian builder in 2003 - elegant and unique by Atlanta standards. We rented it in mint, sparkling condition - beautiful hard-woods, fresh paint, brand new carpets and the jazz. It made it even harder for us to understand why Mass owners think it is perfectly OK for the tenant to want to move in with dingy walls, no general cleaning or ugly, worn-out carpets. After all, these cost as much to re-do/replace in MA as they cost in Atlanta. 
)
