Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't think A.A.propagates anything and is off most peoples' radar.
I could care less what the courts say, such as Casey Anthony being innocent.
Why does ST need a resentment list? It's a fun thing.
Of course it does. Plus you lie. AA has ALWAYS been about the disease model and how dare you pretend otherwise. Do NOT insult me as I know quite more than you do about AA. And even massiveattack knows more than you do, as this person has been in the "program" for far longer than you have. And you KNOW this.
And don't you dare try to divert this discussion to something that has nothing to do with addiction.
And ST is a serious site, devoted to exposing the quackery of AA, which you ALSO know. Stop pretending like you don't know any of this.
No mistygrl092, I am not wrong, and I do not lie, and I am not busted.
I am offended that you would call me a liar.
I don't care how long your friends have been in A.A. It's not a cure-all for everybody. If A.A. is not for you, gladly leave. There are no membership drives going on.
The thing these days is quality, not quantity. If A.A. was a religion, it would belong in the Religion subforums. It's here in the mental health subforums, so go easy on folks here. This is not ST nor is it SR.
No mistygrl092, I am not wrong, and I do not lie, and I am not busted.
I am offended that you would call me a liar.
I don't care how long your friends have been in A.A. It's not a cure-all for everybody. If A.A. is not for you, gladly leave. There are no membership drives going on.
The thing these days is quality, not quantity. If A.A. was a religion, it would belong in the Religion subforums. It's here in the mental health subforums, so go easy on folks here. This is not ST nor is it SR.
Raise the bar.
Well, I apologize then. I got the impression from your posts you were being less than honest.
And I have done my best to raise the bar. I mentioned several resources that people might not even be aware of - both groups and medications. I also pointed out that 95 plus percent of treatment centers are 12 step. I also offered a couple of places that I know are not 12 step. You say AA is not for everybody. Well, then why not mention these other places? I know someone who was lied to about a center not being 12 step and she lost a lot of money there.
I know AA works for some but I also want to point out the truth: that is has a 5% or less success rate. I also believe that AA's "we're about attraction rather than promotion" has seriously been compromised as there are far too many posts I read that suggest otherwise - telling people to go to AA as if there are no other choices. This would come from the old timers (and maybe yourself?) And not even the old timers. I've seen people get shred apart on SR if they do not follow the standard party line and just go along with what others tell them to do. And it happens far too often.
At any rate, I am not going to get caught up in this discussion with you further. But I think I've done a valuable service by providing the information I did.
I really am very neutral about AA and other addiction programs (at least the ones that don't charge people $80,000). I'm sure each approach has advantages for different people, whether it is religious/spiritual or not, whether it uses 12 steps or not, whether it uses a disease model or not.
I would hesitate to believe any program that claimed a cure rate over 50%, as I think recovery is long process that usually takes a lot of trial-and-error attempts to happen. But 5%? I was wondering about this figure.
It's against the TOS to play doctor. I don't talk about the pros or cons of any drugs, just to be safe.
I don't tell anyone to go to A.A. I wasn't sponsored that way either. I tell my experience, which includes the use of A.A. and that's it. Look at my first post in here and it should reflect that.
Show me where A.A. has a 5% recovery rate. A.A. doesn't have an accurate stat for any such thing. The Triennial Studies showed that 5 of 19 folks within their first year made it beyond that year. That would show a 26% success, but it was not meant for that. Stats can show you whatever you want to see. The above studies also showed tha something like 40% of those that made it 5 years had success with A.A. And the stat goes up.
I first got sent to A.A. in 1984 at age 18. I drank again. I went back to A.A. in 1994 and got sober for almost 2 years. My first wife and I divorced. I drank. I got sober again in A.A. for almost 3 years. I drank again. I drank again about another 4 times.
So what's my stat? -600%?
What do these stats mean? How many people who walk into A.A. are alcoholics? 100% ? If you want to throw stats around, answer me that.
I asked a reputable couselor in my town about SMART, RR, Life Ring, etc. He said they may be alright for hard drinkers and hard drug users, but not real addicts and not real alcoholics. I asked him why he said that. He said all they do is sit around and ***** about A.A.
Moderation Management leader Kishline didn't drink enough booze and moderate her blood alcohol up to .26 and kill a man and his 14 year old daughter because she went to an A.A. meeting. Why did she get "sent" to A.A. in the first place? Was it because she broke the law and chose A.A. meetings and probation instead of taking jail time?
It's against the TOS to play doctor. I don't talk about the pros or cons of any drugs, just to be safe.
I don't tell anyone to go to A.A. I wasn't sponsored that way either. I tell my experience, which includes the use of A.A. and that's it. Look at my first post in here and it should reflect that.
Show me where A.A. has a 5% recovery rate. A.A. doesn't have an accurate stat for any such thing. The Triennial Studies showed that 5 of 19 folks within their first year made it beyond that year. That would show a 26% success, but it was not meant for that. Stats can show you whatever you want to see. The above studies also showed tha something like 40% of those that made it 5 years had success with A.A. And the stat goes up.
I first got sent to A.A. in 1984 at age 18. I drank again. I went back to A.A. in 1994 and got sober for almost 2 years. My first wife and I divorced. I drank. I got sober again in A.A. for almost 3 years. I drank again. I drank again about another 4 times.
So what's my stat? -600%?
What do these stats mean? How many people who walk into A.A. are alcoholics? 100% ? If you want to throw stats around, answer me that.
I asked a reputable couselor in my town about SMART, RR, Life Ring, etc. He said they may be alright for hard drinkers and hard drug users, but not real addicts and not real alcoholics. I asked him why he said that. He said all they do is sit around and ***** about A.A.
Moderation Management leader Kishline didn't drink enough booze and moderate her blood alcohol up to .26 and kill a man and his 14 year old daughter because she went to an A.A. meeting. Why did she get "sent" to A.A. in the first place? Was it because she broke the law and chose A.A. meetings and probation instead of taking jail time?
It was suggested to me early on to share my experience, strength & hope in first person singular and never be a preacher or "bleeding deacon" but strive to be a "trusted servant." I, of course, wanted the top job in AA as soon as I arrived. My sponsor told me I could have it and suggested I take the position of "Coffee Maker." He was right, it was the top spot, since I met so many wonderful people who helped me stay sober that first year and many years thereafter.
I tried that drinking in moderation thousands of times - just kept getting drunk. Kinda like making love to a skunk, I never got enough but I always got more than I could stand. Good post McG.
Some may find this strange, but I don't consider alcohol to be a drug... for it is also food.
Moderation is great advice for some. WRT booze, this is horrible advice for those like me. Some are appalled by the thought that they are bodily and mentally different. This is not odd. What is odd is the fact that some are appalled at my proclamation that I am different from y'all.
Why? Is it about exclusivity? What some of us in the program call identification? Idk. Maybe some came to A.A. and were told to leave. This happens all the time. A.A. cannot be everything to everybody. This might tick some off. To grasp the history behind this controversy, look at the difference between the short form and the long form of the 3rd Tradition.
I have no opinion on other methods and would truly like to learn more about them for myself. But just from an observer's point of view.
I see no need to fix what's not broke. What do I think about 95% of the A.A. groups out there? I could not do what they do and stay sober. My group, and its attempt to follow that book is like nothing y'all have ever seen. But I can go to any A.A. meeting and let you do your thing. That's the way It's got to be for me.
You are incorrect. There are people out there who have learned to successfully moderate their drinking.
It was only AFTER Audrey Kishline returned to AA that she killed people while driving drunk.
The friend I mentioned who was sober for 7 years and then "relapsed" never went to ANY AA meetings during those 7 years. She hated the program and couldn't relate to it.
After she started drinking again, she went to meetings for a while every time she came out of rehab...and she went to them drunk.
I do not relate to the Leaving Las Vegas "Nicolas Cage" type drinker.
In A.A., they call that beyond human aid or type 4 drinker. The desire to get sober MUST come from the individual. If it doesn't, they are to be left alone by the A.A. person. No punishment nor reward I give csn cause anyone to change their behavior... when I'm not there to observe them. They must want this.
The friend I mentioned who was sober for 7 years and then "relapsed" never went to ANY AA meetings during those 7 years. She hated the program and couldn't relate to it.
After she started drinking again, she went to meetings for a while every time she came out of rehab...and she went to them drunk.
I had been told the alcoholism continues to progress whether or not you stop drinking or continue to drink. Was skeptical until I saw a guy speak at a meeting who had 9 yrs and went back out for 3 months. He had just got back from the Doc who told him he had the worst liver he had ever seen. He died of liver failure 2 weeks later.
My observations of people who put together some years and relapse would bear this out. They have a very difficult time stopping again once they re-start after long periods of not drinking. Even the "AA" Big book cites examples of this phenomena.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
