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I think the border wall will be the biggest, most stupid white elephant waste of money, ever.
However, being from the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, I support trying it, because it's an impoverished area and people need jobs down there. I'm not sure how they'll deal with the private property owners along the Rio Grande river, many of whom are conservative farmers and ranchers. But I guess Trump likes eminent domain.
But hey. Think about all those government jobs to build and then staff the wall. It'll be like a border region New Deal.
This is an organic conversation. Not sure what you are crying about?
You can sugar cost it as much as you want but these issues relate.
Is every topic on the Mexico forum suppose to be about best beaches, where to meet a nice Mexican girl or the best tacos in Tiajuana ?
FYI everyone posting..... we have been told to get back to the topic..the suggested wall. Not the person who suggested it.
If Mexico has to pay for it..... should they get to choose the colour of it ?
The thing is, for those of us who grew up here at the border, we are used to these things. There is already a wall, a double wall, and it's quite extensive. It was started during the Clinton presidency, so this isn't just a Republican thing. It looked ugly at first, but now it's ignored.
At the SD/Tijuana border, the wall actually pushed for commercial activity in the area. A huge shopping center, parks and housing communities were built on the US side. On the Mexican side, the area in Tijuana by the wall has been cleaned up significantly. In the beach area, you see people picnicking and having fun at the beach near the wall. There's also now a cross-border bridge to go to the Tijuana airport easily, its very handy for the thousands of people crossing back and forth each day.
It's a symbolic thing for all of the insecure Americans from far off areas. It won't change anything locally. And, if they charge Mexico for the wall, who cares. Its not like Mexico has never been in debt and they have bigger, more important issues to worry about. Right now there are tens of thousands of Haitians and many Central Americans who keep arriving, thats a pressing issue of concern.
Last edited by rosa surf; 11-13-2016 at 09:12 AM..
When a politician experience tells to base my judgement on acts rather than words. Trump has had some pretty aggressive words during his campaign, but in all honesty I very much doubt any politician is driven by intimate convictions, especially at that level. You have to be cynical to be successful, and he opted for a very straightforward speech to appeal to a specific niche of electors. Truth to be said whoever advised into this strategy him did a good job for that matter.
Now that he was elected, his style will probably change. I do not foresee him doing a fraction of what many people are saying he will. Thinking he will lead the US into a large scale war, or put together concentrations camps to throw minorities into is being very very naive and overly dramatic IMO. The wall? There pretty much already is a wall at the US-Mexico border with tons of soldier watching over it. Deporting illegal immigrants? Nothing new, thousands and thousands of illegal immigrants were sent back home by force while Obama was in the office.
This ^^^
Politicians are actors- all of them. They have to have an act to get elected.
Last edited by rosa surf; 11-13-2016 at 09:44 AM..
Ok, now it is my turn. I started out in a sleazy apartment community where a good percentage of the people were on Section 8. I saw how destructive the Democrat policies to the human spirit. They destroyed the core human desire to succeed and better one's lot in life. They caused people's lives to stop revolving around family and work. Instead they sat around making sure that they had no income or a low enough income to qualify for the all the government goodies. They sat around making babies who they did not care about and the cycle of welfare continued. Of course not everybody was like that and there were some great neighbors, but there was also a very real welfare culture there. This was reality, this was where my adult experience began and that is where I decided that the Democrats were the most evil thing to ever happen to our country. They have successfully made millions upon millions dependent on voting for them rather than being dependent on themselves. THAT is pure evil.
Long story short, together with my wife (who is Latina and speaks with an accent), we worked our way out and up. We met good people and also had run-ins with the ignorant along the way. She has had to deal with sexual stereotyping at work and hear the occasional immigrant slur. (The most blatant moment of racism occurred in tolerant France, BTW). Rather than cower and demand safe spaces, she kept going. I opened my own business and she is a regional manager for company that everybody here would know.
We have a son with ASD, which brings its own set of challenges and encounters with ignorance. We have taught our son that people say nasty things. If one chooses to take them personally, they will spend their lives as victims and being a victim is an easy excuse to fail. Despite his disability, he understands this concept. Please do not tell me that I don't understand or that I am in some sort of ivory tower.
I did not vote for Trump, but my wife held her nose and did. She weighed Trump's crudeness, opposition to abortion and his sometimes wacky statements against the destructiveness of the Democratic policy. That is how much she detests what the Democrats have done to people with their multiple welfare programs. She is not a redneck, she is not a Nazi, she is not uneducated, she is not poor and she is not ignorant. She is an American who is very proud of her Latina heritage.
That is the silliest comment I have ever heard. First of all, did you really get to know that population you lived amongst? Doesn't seem like it. They don't vote. It is rare for benefits recipients to vote, they don't care about civic participation.
Also, depending on the area you are in, the welfare receiving population can have a high demographic of Republicans. Seems like you are not familiar with the low-income Republican communities, you seem to have this ridiculously dreamy idea that all Republicans are high-income and all Democrats are low-income and on welfare. That is just silly nonsense.
Aid programs are made to assist people in need. What people decide to do with their lives based on that assistance is their personal responsibility. No one forces them to stay on aid, its voluntary.
If they decide that they prefer to stay poor and milk the system for chump change, that is their poor decision. If they decide they do not want to be a part of the system and prefer to get out and work hard (many also make that choice), again, it's a choice.
I worked with this population in the past. They are messed up people, many who come from broken homes and can't get out of a bad cycle. One thing I don't agree with is perennial aid. I think it should be temporary and there should be a cap on how long you can get assistance. But, besides that, these people will either be homeless or out causing crime so I think it's better to give them aid.
That is the silliest comment I have ever heard. First of all, did you really get to know that population you lived amongst? Doesn't seem like it. They don't vote. It is rare for benefits recipients to vote, they don't care about civic participation.
Also, depending on the area you are in, the welfare receiving population can have a high demographic of Republicans. Seems like you are not familiar with the low-income Republican communities, you seem to have this ridiculously dreamy idea that all Republicans are high-income and all Democrats are low-income and on welfare. That is just silly nonsense.
Aid programs are made to assist people in need. What people decide to do with their lives based on that assistance is their personal responsibility. No one forces them to stay on aid, its voluntary.
If they decide that they prefer to stay poor and milk the system for chump change, that is their poor decision. If they decide they do not want to be a part of the system and prefer to get out and work hard (many also make that choice), again, it's a choice.
I worked with this population in the past. They are messed up people, many who come from broken homes and can't get out of a bad cycle. One thing I don't agree with is perennial aid. I think it should be temporary and there should be a cap on how long you can get assistance. But, besides that, these people will either be homeless or out causing crime so I think it's better to give them aid.
Not silly at all, it is real and yes I knew many quite well. We still stay in touch with a couple that also left and feels exactly the same way we do.
We all saw how they gamed the system. They either worked for cash, didn't work at all or only earned enough to keep the gravy train rolling. Then there were the workers who lived the Section 8 apartments. Some family members would plead poverty and get the Section 8 along with the other government goodies, then the workers would stay there until there was an inspection. On the day of the inspection, they disappear. Once the inspectors were gone, the working family members would reappear. The result was households with decent wages getting all the benefits of an impoverished family. People wonder how EBT users drive away in BMWs. This is exactly how it goes down.
I have no dreamy ideas about Republicans and do not even belong to the party. As mentioned previously, I believe in personal freedom. Freedom to bear arms, freedom for consenting adults to marry as they wish, freedom for women to make their own reproductive choices, freedom to seek a doctor's assistance to end your life when suffering from terminal illness, freedom for people to speak and write whatever language they want, freedom for employers to hire and fire at will, freedom for labor to organize. I will always yield to the individual to decide what is the best choice for themselves and to sink or swim with the outcome of those decisions. That mindset has no place in the Republican or Democrat Parties.
My sister lives in KY and the Republican welfare culture of Eastern KY and parts of Appalachia is a secret to nobody. They're no different than any other welfare leech. The same sense of entitlement exists in those parts.
Who are you kidding about them not voting? That is a joke. They know exactly where their bread gets buttered and are quite skilled in getting the vote out. Knowing how to game the system does not mean that you are an ignorant fool. It is indeed a choice to stay on welfare related programs, but the programs incentivize people to stay. I heard all the BS. "I paid into the system and now I'm taking out", "My Dad died in the military and this country owes me", "I have depression and can't work". The excuses were endless, but in the end almost all of them would have been able to hold down a job if the EBT card wasn't on its way and dinner depended on them going to work.
You noted that you're opposed to perennial welfare. Guess what. It keeps the Democrats in office and it's not going away if they have a say. It is an evil vote buying scheme that destroys the human spirit. We should care for the truly indigent, but the system that is place will care for anybody that feels like being cared for or was raised and taught how to be cared for.
And, if they charge Mexico for the wall, who cares. Its not like Mexico has never been in debt and they have bigger, more important issues to worry about. Right now there are tens of thousands of Haitians and many Central Americans who keep arriving, thats a pressing issue of concern.
Saying that Mexico can afford to spend $12 billion on a wall to protect their $24-$28 billion annual receipt of remittance money is very shaky economics. First while it is probably true that the remittance money sent by workers to families in Mexico is the largest amount going from one country to another, there is over $100 billion going from the USA to other countries around the world with China, India, and Phillipines right behind Mexico. There is over half a trillion dollars generated in remittance money worldwide in all countries.
AFAIK there are only two public transportation works projects in the USA that cost over $12 billion (like the Interstate System and The "Big Dig" Central Artery/Tunnel Project in Boston). The biggest private project in USA history is probably the Hudson Yards Redevelopment Project in Brooklyn which may cost $20 billion.
You can't cite general economic figures as justification for the cost of a project. It's like saying the USA has an $18 trillion GDP so they should be able to afford a "new moon landing project", an "underwater train to Europe", a "space elevator". Any project that you can think of is minor compared to the GDP of the USA.
Mexico is facing one of the biggest projects in their history with the estimated $9 billion price tag to build a new airport in Mexico City. Unlike the USA whose airline industry is spread out over dozens of airports, Mexico's airline infrastructure is highly dependent a single airport which functions as the largest hub in the country as well as servicing origin and destination flights to their largest city.
Now I am not saying that President Trump doesn't have huge power to browbeat Mexico. In the five days since his election the worst peso collapse in two decades has cost Mexico close at least tens of billion dollars and no doubt put thousands of companies out of business. The value of Mexican banknotes has lost $8 billion US dollars alone in just five days.
But Mexico is a friendly country. At what point will we create an enemy just to satisfy xenophobic tendencies.
The fall of the peso makes Mexican exports cheaper to buy. Trump wont build the wall, the guy is, as my friends in Texas say, all hat & no cattle.
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