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All officials are watching this, but Mexico is a sovereign country and we have to let them solve their own problems on their own soil. We've offered anything and everything to them to help out, but there are limits to what they will accept. Working as a US official in Mexico is well known to be dangerous and its been that way for over a decade.
1. Yes, Mexico is a sovereign state. However, when another country's government offices or that country's citizens working in representation of that government are attacked, sovereignty becomes more malleable. While this attack against US interests occurred on Mexican soil, it is hardly just "their (Mexico's) problem." I'm not referring to a US invasion of Mexico or any such nonsense like that. I am, however, advocating Mexican acceptance of e.g. US agents on the ground in Mexico, given the Mexicans' apparent and bewildering ability to continue exacerbating an already critical--to say the least--problem.
2. It is "well known" that working as a US official in Mexico is dangerous and has been for over a decade? Really? Can you cite just one prior incident--just a single one--in which US government employees were targeted and killed? Just one.
I can think of one attack against the United States in Mexico over the past several years--two years ago when the American consulate in Monterrey came under gunfire. There were no fatalities, no injuries. Perhaps you are referring to that single incident?
As for "backstories" and the such: You're right; likely no one here knows if those killed were part of some worldwide visas-for-coke scheme or whatever the Conspiracy Theory of the Day might be.. But sometimes a duck is just a duck. Shockingly to some, it very well could be that US Government employees were targeted and brutally murdered for no reason other than that they were American govt officials. It is--again--the first such incident we have seen in Mexico, but certainly not in the world.
1. Yes, Mexico is a sovereign state. However, when another country's government offices or that country's citizens working in representation of that government are attacked, sovereignty becomes more malleable. While this attack against US interests occurred on Mexican soil, it is hardly just "their (Mexico's) problem." I'm not referring to a US invasion of Mexico or any such nonsense like that. I am, however, advocating Mexican acceptance of e.g. US agents on the ground in Mexico, given the Mexicans' apparent and bewildering ability to continue exacerbating an already critical--to say the least--problem.
Good luck with that. You try explaining that to your citizens. What if in the aftermath of Katrina Mexico offered to send in their military to help clean up and aid New Orleans, how well would that have gone over? Once again it is their country and they are free to choose how its policed and defended. In any event US agents are constantly on the ground in Mexico and are allowed to investigate incidents like this. But they will never be allowed to act as the judicial system.
2. It is "well known" that working as a US official in Mexico is dangerous and has been for over a decade? Really? Can you cite just one prior incident--just a single one--in which US government employees were targeted and killed? Just one.
I can think of one attack against the United States in Mexico over the past several years--two years ago when the American consulate in Monterrey came under gunfire. There were no fatalities, no injuries. Perhaps you are referring to that single incident?
It has been well known for a long time. I met the third in charge of the US Embassy back in early 2001, pre 9/11, and he told me this. He said every US consular employee is required to have top notch Spanish skills, deep security training and participate in regular risk assessment meetings. He said they all felt threatened since Kiki Camarena got killed in the 80s and that some people who might have been offered a position in the Embassy passed on it out of safety concerns. Just because an incident didn't happen didn't mean it wasn't feared.
As for "backstories" and the such: You're right; likely no one here knows if those killed were part of some worldwide visas-for-coke scheme or whatever the Conspiracy Theory of the Day might be.. But sometimes a duck is just a duck. Shockingly to some, it very well could be that US Government employees were targeted and brutally murdered for no reason other than that they were American govt officials. It is--again--the first such incident we have seen in Mexico, but certainly not in the world.
Perhaps but unless its clearly reported to be such an attack I am going to assume it was something independent of an attack on the US. Makes little sense to do so, if you are going to attack to make a statement you do a lot more than this.
1. Yes, Mexico is a sovereign state. However, when another country's government offices or that country's citizens working in representation of that government are attacked, sovereignty becomes more malleable. While this attack against US interests occurred on Mexican soil, it is hardly just "their (Mexico's) problem." I'm not referring to a US invasion of Mexico or any such nonsense like that. I am, however, advocating Mexican acceptance of e.g. US agents on the ground in Mexico, given the Mexicans' apparent and bewildering ability to continue exacerbating an already critical--to say the least--problem.
2. It is "well known" that working as a US official in Mexico is dangerous and has been for over a decade? Really? Can you cite just one prior incident--just a single one--in which US government employees were targeted and killed? Just one.
I can think of one attack against the United States in Mexico over the past several years--two years ago when the American consulate in Monterrey came under gunfire. There were no fatalities, no injuries. Perhaps you are referring to that single incident?
As for "backstories" and the such: You're right; likely no one here knows if those killed were part of some worldwide visas-for-coke scheme or whatever the Conspiracy Theory of the Day might be.. But sometimes a duck is just a duck. Shockingly to some, it very well could be that US Government employees were targeted and brutally murdered for no reason other than that they were American govt officials. It is--again--the first such incident we have seen in Mexico, but certainly not in the world.
Both you and Willy702 are correct regarding Camarena. And I advocate the US Government taking steps not unlike they did in investigating Camarena's death in Mexico when US officials are murdered.
What do people here with knowledge of the complexity of the situation think can be done - especially now with the murders of US citizens? Will this be a catalyst to take a more dramatic approach?
Should there be a huge multi-national assault on the drug cartels? Should the US seriously address legalizing marijuana? Should average citizens in Juarez be temporarily relocated elsewhere in order to isolate the cartel members. I know these sound far-fetched but drastic situations require drastic solutions. Living in this country has made me starkly aware of the problems in the north - along with having family in that stricken city.
Honestly I don't think much can be done. If you take the path Calderon has taken you have to accept these consequences. There is a much less violent path, but it is one which sweeps the problem under the rug and allows Mexico to continue down the path of a completely narco run state. Ask Colombians though if it was worth it to put up with many years of pain while they finally brought much of the drug corruption and violence under control. They still have narcos around, there still are issues, but in time confronting the worst of the problem eventually paid off. This is the Calderon strategy and I am sure he's been reassured by Uribe that success in the process won't really come until he's out of office. It takes at least 6 years to get a true change in the outlook of the country and how the consider these narcos. As I have stated before eventually it will change. A few years ago I am sure many parents were thinking of their daughters marrying a narco as something like winning the lottery. If enough of them are killed or imprisoned surely this view will change and I suspect it is already changed.
I don't think its a catalyst for anything different, no changes will come from the US side and the Mexican side has too much to handle for them to do more than shamefully acknowledge what happened. One thing I have always wondered though is why doesn't the US have its consulate right at the border in Juarez or Tijuana? Something that is very short walk from the US side could provide a lot more security in times like this, consular employees could always be US residents and not have to subject themselves to living in Mexico. They could spend time out in the Mexican community as part of the job, but when the work day ends they go home to a US resident family. Doesn't this just make common sense?
Both you and Willy702 are correct regarding Camarena. And I advocate the US Government taking steps not unlike they did in investigating Camarena's death in Mexico when US officials are murdered.
Also several border patrol agents have been killed and a couple of FBI agents investigating train robberies were attacked and dragged over to the Juarez side of the fence and beaten very badly.
I'm not for the US government getting involved however except to close Consulates because Mexico is a sovreign nation. Americans wouldn't like government officials from foreign nations messing around here.
What do people here with knowledge of the complexity of the situation think can be done - especially now with the murders of US citizens? Will this be a catalyst to take a more dramatic approach?
Should there be a huge multi-national assault on the drug cartels? Should the US seriously address legalizing marijuana? Should average citizens in Juarez be temporarily relocated elsewhere in order to isolate the cartel members. I know these sound far-fetched but drastic situations require drastic solutions. Living in this country has made me starkly aware of the problems in the north - along with having family in that stricken city.
The cartels also smuggle and traffic meth, heroin, the date rape drugs and anything else so it couldn't be legalization of just pot because that wouldn't stop the profits from trafficking other drugs.
The really big problem I see with legalization as the solution is that the USA is not experiencing a big crime wave, and meth addiction is tearing up some communities -- it would take years to convince the American people that every sort of highly addictive drug should be sold legally and openly throughout the USA in order to solve the problems of Mexico.
In this thread all have become judges and the veredict is: Mexico Guilty.
No one is killed just for nothing, there must be some reason, and before blaming an entire contry for an event, you should wait and investigate and not rely on people for the mere fact of being american and work in the consulate are free of all suspicion.
I agree with you el inombrable. Mexico is too big of a country to blame for this incident. I do not even blame some of the misinformed forumers here. I blame the US media.
My mother just came back from Mexico on Sunday. She had no problems, nor did she fear for her life. I leave tomorrow to Mexico and today at work, I have been stopped at least by 15 people (all Americans) asking me, begging me to not go to Mexico. While I assure them that I will be okay and that this event is hundreds of miles away from where I will be, they cant seem to understand that this drug problem requires the cooperation of both nations or there will be no solution at all.
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