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Fair enough, fella. I can agree to some stuff: What I would agree to in this day long discussion (I am bored here, as if you couldnt already tell... i teach classes at night) is the following:
but fella, you ignore the fact that while most Americans don't list CRIME as a big concern for their nation, in Mexico, crime and safety are always in the top 5.
There is hope for Mexico, although I believe you may be a bit optimistic about it. Purchasing power has a loong way to go in Mexico. The girl that I like to hook up with lives with her boyfriend (dont need moral police, thank you) and together they make about 7000 MXP a month. I'm sorry, but that's abhorrent. Everytime I go to Mexico City, aside from the condo I rent out, I end up spending about 5000 mxp a week in just food, taxis and going out, nothing too extravagant. Yes, there has been much more progress in the last 10 yrs than in the previous 70 yrs, depending on who you ask. If you haven't already, listen to Juan Luis Guerra's El Costo De la Vida song, it epitomizes the situation in Mexico now. Prices have gone up dramatically, but the majority of the population's wages have stayed the same. The business environment isn't as aggressive as needed.
Mexico doesn't need sacrificial lambs, as malamute suggests, that should stay in Mexico and work and make the economy better. That's not how it happened in Italy. Mexico needs to create an environment safe for investment, opportunities for young professionals, and in general a vibrant environment for intellectualism and innovation. Mexico needs to strapm down and brace itself for globalization and worldwide competition, instead of whining about foreign companies taking over all of Mexico. Mexicans need to educate themselves and make the nation a major competitor in the world market instead of slowly slipping down the list of GDPs and loosing competitive advantages to Asian nations.
Back on the crime thing... no I am not a horrible pessimist that hates Mexico and thinks it's the scum of the earth. I love Mexico, but I think it is important to point out, AGAIN, that crime and safety are among the top 5 national concerns for Mexicans, while that doesn't even register in the top 10 of Americans' concerns. Is it crime levels, or police responsiveness that triggers that? well, I guess that's another thread for us, isn't it fella?
Oh and just in case you seriously doubted by 30 million claim:
Yes I understand that it includes those already born there, but it's still 30 million of us that live outside our 'homeland'.
So many excellent points made there! (couldn't rep you again)..
YES to the terrible buying power of average Mexicans - I can't figure out how they can afford to buy even the most basic things like milk and eggs, etc. on the salaries they make. We have a young gardener (who worked as an ayudante building our little casitas) and he began to take care of our property while we were in the states. He was actually making a better wage than most at around 1400 pesos a week (maestros at around 2500-2800 pesos). Well we just got back from Chapala and heard the wages for maestros and ayundantes were little more than HALF what they pay here. How can one afford to live on that - alongside the gringos and Canadians who can generally afford these prices. YES, this has to change in order for average and poor Mexicans to move forward economically. Long-term poverty tends to breed criminality.
And I really liked this statement you made...
"..... vibrant environment for intellectualism and innovation. Mexico needs to strapm down and brace itself for globalization and worldwide competition, instead of whining about foreign companies taking over all of Mexico. Mexicans need to educate themselves and make the nation a major competitor in the world market instead of slowly slipping down the list of GDPs and loosing competitive advantages to Asian nations."
Surely one way this can and absolutely should happen is to strip away some of the infuriating, endless, slow as a turtle bureaucracy for Mexicans and foreigners alike. (I'm not complaining for myself) We've learned to deal with it. But slowing things down to a snail's pace and requiring endless pieces of paper and stamps for everything (like banking, etc.) is horribly frustrating and time consuming. (I won't even talk about the postal system which is a joke). A change in this could make a huge difference in the average person/worker's daily time schedules.
(When I go to the bank here to withdraw money from my account, there are several hurdles I have to go through, along with numerous pieces of paper to sign. In the states I walk in with a check, present it and walk out with my money)
I know Mexico is loathe to involve experts from other nations (for historical reasons) to come in to the country and help unravel some of its problems - such as technology involving oil development (and the postal system). But they may have to accept that things aren't working very efficiently - and that to perform well on the world stage they may have to make some uncomfortable adjustments. I bet some expert efficiency experts could suggest some radical (probably unpopular) changes that if implemented could make a huge difference.
And, of course another enormous factor is EUDCATION.. Educated people generally don't become thieves and murderers and kidnappers. Our 22 year old 'gardener' ("muy noble y honesto", per his former boss) cannot read nor write. But he is an inherently smart young man, who, if he *could* read and write could likely go on to university and do very well. For those reasons and his dedicated hard work we pay him more than what he was making as an ayudante. There are some who say, we're fooling with and altering the class system by paying him more.. But the point being, pay people what they're worth and maybe you can push them up to the next ladder and build a better, fairer society. Keep people uneducated and poor and they become desperate and look for less legal ways to survive.
And the majority of kindappers and the majority of kidnapped are from...
Are you saying that as far as Phoenix, they are "outsiders"? Because that's the same thing a lot of people from Monterrey and Juarez say about the kidnappers in their cities.
The USA has the city with the second highest rate of kidnappings for ransom and if Mexico is to be blamed because it's not doing enough for the people who turn to crimes then wouldn't the same be true for Phoenix?
Are you saying that as far as Phoenix, they are "outsiders"? Because that's the same thing a lot of people from Monterrey and Juarez say about the kidnappers in their cities.
The USA has the city with the second highest rate of kidnappings for ransom and if Mexico is to be blamed because it's not doing enough for the people who turn to crimes then wouldn't the same be true for Phoenix?
Touché, malamute. It is the U.S.'s fault for not tightening immigration and allowing a large Mexican population to settle in Phoenix. It's America's fault for the desire for illegal immigrants and importing them, albeit clandestinely, from Mexico and Central America and now we have that problem.
We can explore that route, but I doubt that'll be more than a one sided conversation on immigration.
Are you saying that as far as Phoenix, they are "outsiders"? Because that's the same thing a lot of people from Monterrey and Juarez say about the kidnappers in their cities.
The USA has the city with the second highest rate of kidnappings for ransom and if Mexico is to be blamed because it's not doing enough for the people who turn to crimes then wouldn't the same be true for Phoenix?
First, I never said "outsiders" was not a legitimate problem but I agree with Joel that it is not very constructive for a local population to sit back and blame it all on outsiders.
Second, in one case (Mexico city) the "outsiders" are from the same country, in the other (Phoenix) they are from another country (most kidnappers and victims are illegal aliens). Jurisdiction and sovereignty differences affect what each can do about the outsiders.
Third, how about we compare and contrast what the police in D.F. and Phoenix are doing to address the issue? I don't know where it will lead but I'll bet the U.S. is doing more (adding resources, task forces, etc.) and has a higher arrest rate.
First, I never said "outsiders" was not a legitimate problem but I agree with Joel that it is not very constructive for a local population to sit back and blame it all on outsiders.
Second, in one case (Mexico city) the "outsiders" are from the same country, in the other (Phoenix) they are from another country (most kidnappers and victims are illegal aliens). Jurisdiction and sovereignty differences affect what each can do about the outsiders.
Third, how about we compare and contrast what the police in D.F. and Phoenix are doing to address the issue? I don't know where it will lead but I'll bet the U.S. is doing more (adding resources, task forces, etc.) and has a higher arrest rate.
Amen Todd. I sometimes feel like I'm the lone ranger of reality here.
On a different subject, but still talking about the safety situation in Mexico, it saddens me that no one on the political stage is talking about guns for ordinary citizens.
Obviously the crooked police and the corrupt officials don't want guns for ordinary citizens that want to protect their farms/families. But wouldn't that be great? My grandparents in Juarez both have heavy duty assault weapons and all the neighbors know it. Guess what... the house and the surrounding units are crime free. Most criminals, at least in Mexico, are people from the neighborhood that know your daily repetoire. My grandparents own a tiendita and one time my grandfather left to pick up a delivery in El Paso. A neighbor from a couple blocks down broke in, thinking my grandmother was helpless. Shot the bastard in the leg, and he was the ridicule of the neighborhood.
Do I advocate mob justice? No. But when legal avenues for justice and law enforcement are nothing but wishful thinking, and decent police offers are scant,that's what people have to do to protect themselves.
Unfortunately, the Mexican media and the government have done a fantastic job at making Mexicans feel as if gun ownership is barbaric, and blow up instances of gun violence in schools in the U.S. "Ay no, que horror, I'm so glad in Mexico we don't have such a high prevalence of guns" Well, you'd be surprised. The mafiosos of tepito have an arsenal that is way more powerful than the metro police.
When you criminalize guns, only criminals have guns.
I hesitated on posting this because it is a deeply detressing video, especially for those of us who have family in Juarez. I truly hope that those who watch it will be able to combat some of what this reporter says. But the 'truths' about what drugs are doing to not only Mexico's way of life and its culture are also true in the US as he talks about the high incidences of meth labs in places you wouldn't expect. This is a plague upon all our houses and a solution that works MUST be found and soon.
* Charles Bowden on "Murder City: Ciudad Juárez and the Global Economy's New Killing Fields" * (From Democracy Now!)
A new report by the Mexican government has found the death toll from the so-called drug war is much higher than previously thought. Nearly 23,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence in Mexico since a US-backed military crackdown on cartels began more than three years ago. The report said 2009 was the deadliest year in the drug war, with over 9,600 people killed. The death toll is on track to be even higher in 2010 with more than 3,300 people in the first three months of this year alone. We speak to reporter Charles Bowden, author of Murder City: Ciudad Juárez and the Global Economy's New Killing Fields.
I hesitated on posting this because it is a deeply detressing video, especially for those of us who have family in Juarez. I truly hope that those who watch it will be able to combat some of what this reporter says. But the 'truths' about what drugs are doing to not only Mexico's way of life and its culture are also true in the US as he talks about the high incidences of meth labs in places you wouldn't expect. This is a plague upon all our houses and a solution that works MUST be found and soon.
* Charles Bowden on "Murder City: Ciudad Juárez and the Global Economy's New Killing Fields" * (From Democracy Now!)
A new report by the Mexican government has found the death toll from the so-called drug war is much higher than previously thought. Nearly 23,000 people have been killed in drug-related violence in Mexico since a US-backed military crackdown on cartels began more than three years ago. The report said 2009 was the deadliest year in the drug war, with over 9,600 people killed. The death toll is on track to be even higher in 2010 with more than 3,300 people in the first three months of this year alone. We speak to reporter Charles Bowden, author of Murder City: Ciudad Juárez and the Global Economy's New Killing Fields.
Very interesting, but it's difficult to see how the remittances have really helped since all this crime isn't ending because of them. It's not likely the USA can go on having billions of dollars sent out and millions more cheap workers brought in when it's the USA with the sky high unemployment rates.
It seems Bowden's only solution is to only further the economic dependence on the USA and throw open the border and have the whole nation of Mexico move over into the USA.
He really doesn't offer a way to end the violence but he does point out how Juarez is NAFTA's number one city and that few of these murders are solved.
Another video recently out, showing some of these violent gangs doing their thing, very brazenly. Hitmen stuffing their noses with cocaine - which correlates with what Bowden said about the fast growing drug addiction in Mexico that helps fuel this killing spree.
Very interesting, but it's difficult to see how the remittances have really helped since all this crime isn't ending because of them. It's not likely the USA can go on having billions of dollars sent out and millions more cheap workers brought in when it's the USA with the sky high unemployment rates.
It seems Bowden's only solution is to only further the economic dependence on the USA and throw open the border and have the whole nation of Mexico move over into the USA.
He really doesn't offer a way to end the violence but he does point out how Juarez is NAFTA's number one city and that few of these murders are solved.
Another video recently out, showing some of these violent gangs doing their thing, very brazenly. Hitmen stuffing their noses with cocaine - which correlates with what Bowden said about the fast growing drug addiction in Mexico that helps fuel this killing spree.
Because malamute and I disagree on everything except the color of the sun, (Maybe even that, I see it as a yellow tinge) I'm not even going to comment.
But...
MY FAMILY IS TOTALLY FROM THAT AREA. My mother and three of my uncles were born right outside of Creel. It's gone way down. And that area is absolutely gorgeous.
Wow... How did they manage to film that? It's like a horrific made-for-tv movie.
As to the remittances - obviously even they can't stem the tide of poverty and crime!
Interesting article in the Huffington Post by economist Robert Reich (whom I really like and respect) but the points he made were loco! In talking about the US social security and the declining numbers of workers to support that system, he said this is one reason to get these illegal workers out of the shadows so they can pay into the system, thus supporting the pending wave of baby boomers soon to be on SS.. You can just imagine the comments he got for proposing this! Interesting on one level; crazy on another..
Wow... How did they manage to film that? It's like a horrific made-for-tv movie.
As to the remittances - obviously even they can't stem the tide of poverty and crime!
Interesting article in the Huffington Post by economist Robert Reich (whom I really like and respect) but the points he made were loco! In talking about the US social security and the declining numbers of workers to support that system, he said this is one reason to get these illegal workers out of the shadows so they can pay into the system, thus supporting the pending wave of baby boomers soon to be on SS.. You can just imagine the comments he got for proposing this! Interesting on one level; crazy on another..
Apparently that was from 4 cameras that were running. They have now identified some of them.
La Procuraduría General de Justicia del Estado dio a conocer la identidad del presunto jefe del grupo de sicarios que fue captado en plena acción por las cámaras del C-4, y cuyo video se proyectó el 8 de abril pasado en cadena nacional en el programa “Punto de partida” que encabeza la periodista Denise Maerker.
Se trata de Enrique López Acosta, alias “El Cumbias”, quien aparece en el video dando órdenes e inhalando cocaína.
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