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Coconut Grove, Edgewater, Midtown, Downtown and Downtown Coral Gables are small parts of Miami (Miami Dade) geographically as well as population.
Of course you will see many more international tourists and residents in these areas but the rest of Miami and Miami-Dade County are so heavily weighted and drastically different from the areas you mention that, again, for the average person who does not work or live in these areas, the only interaction with the variety of these areas is had on a weekend evening or day.
The normal week-to-week daily living is punctuated by hispanic after hispanic interaction with very little variety outside of that.
No problem for the single adult, I lived on South Beach prior to NY and loved it but for most families there are inherent problems to living in the areas you describe that actually have retained some semblance of international variety. Broward is much more diverse throughout it.
But those areas are still part of Miami. That is his experience, that's where he lives and that's his reality. Just like your experience will be very different if you lived in Pinecrest, Hialeah, Coral Gables, Little River, Homestead or West Kendall. Miami is a huge city. And the same thing is true for Broward, it is not the same experience if you live in Miramar, Weston, Coral Springs, Sunrise, Hallandale, Pompano or Hollywood. They are all different areas with different demographics, architecture and household incomes.
But those areas are still part of Miami. That is his experience, that's where he lives and that's his reality. Just like your experience will be very different if you lived in Pinecrest, Hialeah, Coral Gables, Little River, Homestead or West Kendall. Miami is a huge city. And the same thing is true for Broward, it is not the same experience if you live in Miramar, Weston, Coral Springs, Sunrise, Hallandale, Pompano or Hollywood. They are all different areas with different demographics, architecture and household incomes.
Absolutely. You could fly someone into Miami International and after a quick cab ride drop them off in Liberty City and if they stayed in that area for the next 20 minutes or 20 years they would probably have a fairly jaded view of Miami. Does that mean individual experiences distant from the norm should negate or counter the collective and common experiences of the majority? I don't know but you can certainly start to generalize when you have seen enough of Miami and even though it is a huge city it becomes very much the same.
The OP was speaking of his individual experience in Miami but brought up some fairly common observations and blanket statements of Miami as a whole. We have all read these common issues within other threads.
Miami is certainly very diverse in individual areas and much more international and varied than most places in the world. Surprisingly, though, it turns out to be very monotonous across much of it and drastically much less cosmopolitan in almost every area outside of a select few.
This is at the core of why people love to hate Miami. Only a small percentage actually live in the "Miami" version of what it is billed to be. I think that is why it often gets the third world moniker. Not because of its large hispanic population but because Miami has the glitz and the glamour that draws people in while the majority of those who stay end up living outside of it.
Have you ever visited Cancun or Rio or San Jose, Costa Rica or San Juan, Puerto Rico? The list goes on but in those places if you get out of the tourist areas and see where the real people live you see something much different and decidedly less varied and appealing? Third world, perhaps?
People in Kendall or Pincrest or even Westchester, Sweetwater or Hialeah would not consider that they live in the third world but compared to everything South Beach and Brickell has to offer and the typical idea of life in South Florida everyone in those communities are actually in living in the third world by comparison.
Even Pinecrest, big homes and big lots, is stuck away from nearby beaches and is saddled with crappy traffic to get anywhere outside its borders, crappy restaurants, crappy shopping... Third World living compared to "South Beach". The only real difference there is that you still have no trouble speaking English but stop by The Falls and you'll hear almost everyone walking by speaking Spanish. This is typical Miami and a far cry from the diverse and varied experience you may find in the Grove or South Beach.
Coconut Grove, Edgewater, Midtown, Downtown and Downtown Coral Gables are small parts of Miami (Miami Dade) geographically as well as population.
Of course you will see many more international tourists and residents in these areas but the rest of Miami and Miami-Dade County are so heavily weighted and drastically different from the areas you mention that, again, for the average person who does not work or live in these areas, the only interaction with the variety of these areas is had on a weekend evening or day.
The normal week-to-week daily living is punctuated by hispanic after hispanic interaction with very little variety outside of that.
No problem for the single adult, I lived on South Beach prior to NY and loved it but for most families there are inherent problems to living in the areas you describe that actually have retained some semblance of international variety. Broward is much more diverse throughout it.
North Miami/North Miami Beach has a large Caribbean and West African specifically Nigerian population. Aventura is mostly European i.e. Russians/Yugoslavian etc. Buena Vista East is mostly Caribbean with whites and latinos thrown in for good measure. Wynwood and Midtown are up and coming as well and the diversity is apparent when you are in the area. Wynwood has a excellent lottery school, it is all boys, so that is the draw back if you have a daughter. Miami Springs has a large WASP population. There is a large black population just past Coral Gables, moving down US1 (away from Downtown), not sure of the name of that area. That area where Garcia's is, on the East side of 95 seems to be mostly black with whites and Hispanics thrown in as well. East Little Havana believe it or not has a lot of black, whites and Hispanics. We were researching the area recently and started spending time over there to get a feel of the area, and the diversity was shocking given what you are always told of the place. I am talking the east side of Little Havana to be specific. The roads I would also argue has a decent mixture. Yes, some of the western suburbs are heavily Hispanic, but that is no different than any other big city. I am from Brooklyn originally and it is not uncommon to find areas that are heavily one ethnic group with little interaction with other groups. Older cities tend to be like that, with some areas being more diverse.
As for Brickell, Coconut Grove, Edgewater, Midtown, Downtown or Downtown Coral Gables "for most families there are inherent problems to living in the areas [i] describe", that statement is rather confusing. Coconut Grove has TONS of families and has one of the top rated grade schools in Miami. Brickell also has a up and coming elementary schools (Southside Elementary) with a very good magnet program. Edgewater has a lot of families moving in, though the zoned grade school isn't the best yet. Though i do believe it received a B last year. besides the zone school you also have the Children's Museum charter school which is pretty decent. Then there is a school in that area that is lottery based, which is using the IB curriculum, which is one of the best curriculums in the world. The school zoned for downtown Coral Gables is also pretty good. So I am not quit sure what you are talking about in this regard. Now I can't speak for south beach, because I don't know any families living there, but I do know families living int he areas I have mentioned previously and I am the father of a child and I live in Coconut Grove, and the amount of families in the Grove is VERY high. We also have great parks and events in the Grove. Downtown Coral Gables may not have the amount of parks we have, but they do have a lot going on in terms of events. I don't think you can take your South Beach experience and try to apply it to the all neighborhoods on the East side of Miami, because that doesn't work, its apples and oranges.
Absolutely. You could fly someone into Miami International and after a quick cab ride drop them off in Liberty City and if they stayed in that area for the next 20 minutes or 20 years they would probably have a fairly jaded view of Miami. Does that mean individual experiences distant from the norm should negate or counter the collective and common experiences of the majority? I don't know but you can certainly start to generalize when you have seen enough of Miami and even though it is a huge city it becomes very much the same.
The OP was speaking of his individual experience in Miami but brought up some fairly common observations and blanket statements of Miami as a whole. We have all read these common issues within other threads.
Miami is certainly very diverse in individual areas and much more international and varied than most places in the world. Surprisingly, though, it turns out to be very monotonous across much of it and drastically much less cosmopolitan in almost every area outside of a select few.
This is at the core of why people love to hate Miami. Only a small percentage actually live in the "Miami" version of what it is billed to be. I think that is why it often gets the third world moniker. Not because of its large hispanic population but because Miami has the glitz and the glamour that draws people in while the majority of those who stay end up living outside of it.
Have you ever visited Cancun or Rio or San Jose, Costa Rica or San Juan, Puerto Rico? The list goes on but in those places if you get out of the tourist areas and see where the real people live you see something much different and decidedly less varied and appealing? Third world, perhaps?
People in Kendall or Pincrest or even Westchester, Sweetwater or Hialeah would not consider that they live in the third world but compared to everything South Beach and Brickell has to offer and the typical idea of life in South Florida everyone in those communities are actually in living in the third world by comparison.
Even Pinecrest, big homes and big lots, is stuck away from nearby beaches and is saddled with crappy traffic to get anywhere outside its borders, crappy restaurants, crappy shopping... Third World living compared to "South Beach". The only real difference there is that you still have no trouble speaking English but stop by The Falls and you'll hear almost everyone walking by speaking Spanish. This is typical Miami and a far cry from the diverse and varied experience you may find in the Grove or South Beach.
I agree with what your are saying here, but being a Native New Yorker myself, I can say the same for the Metro area of New York City. Living in Manhattan is vastly different than living in Sound View, or Far Rockaway or Sheepshead bay for example. The amenities you will have available to you will be different and the socio-economic make up will be different. Heck even in Manhattan things can change drastically. Living in Inwood is very different from living in Washington Heights, as opposed to living in Chelsea, The Upper East Side or Morning Side Heights. This is also true in Chicago, Washington DC and every other old, major city. I think White Americans have a issue in Miami because they find themselves as minorities, a position they are not used to. I am not white, nor do I have a problem with living among Hispanics. The Hispanic population didn't determine my move to Coconut Grove, it was the walk-ability, great schools, parks and access to mass transit. We would have moved downtown, but the parking issue with some of the buildings there precluded us from doing that.
Have you ever visited Cancun or Rio or San Jose, Costa Rica or San Juan, Puerto Rico? The list goes on but in those places if you get out of the tourist areas and see where the real people live you see something much different and decidedly less varied and appealing? Third world, perhaps?
People in Kendall or Pincrest or even Westchester, Sweetwater or Hialeah would not consider that they live in the third world but compared to everything South Beach and Brickell has to offer and the typical idea of life in South Florida everyone in those communities are actually in living in the third world by comparison.
Even Pinecrest, big homes and big lots, is stuck away from nearby beaches and is saddled with crappy traffic to get anywhere outside its borders, crappy restaurants, crappy shopping... Third World living compared to "South Beach". The only real difference there is that you still have no trouble speaking English but stop by The Falls and you'll hear almost everyone walking by speaking Spanish. This is typical Miami and a far cry from the diverse and varied experience you may find in the Grove or South Beach.
I don't understand this definition of third word. It seems it includes suburban living, lack of diversity and possibly Spanish speaking. Residential areas close to the beach are very limited anywhere in the US, this is just not a Miami thing.
Most Americans live in non diverse suburbs by choice surrounded by big box retail stores and strip malls. It just happens that many suburbs in Miami are hispanic while most suburbs in the US are white non hispanic. How can Miami suburbs be that different from other US suburbs when they all look extremely similar? Crappy shopping in Pinecrest? Most places in the US wished they had access to the stores people in Pinecrest have access to.
Anyone expecting an area with 2.5 million people to look like a vacation brochure must not be very familiar with cities and metro areas in general or must be a naive young hispter.
North Miami/North Miami Beach has a large Caribbean and West African specifically Nigerian population. Aventura is mostly European i.e. Russians/Yugoslavian etc. Buena Vista East is mostly Caribbean with whites and latinos thrown in for good measure. Wynwood and Midtown are up and coming as well and the diversity is apparent when you are in the area. Wynwood has a excellent lottery school, it is all boys, so that is the draw back if you have a daughter. Miami Springs has a large WASP population. There is a large black population just past Coral Gables, moving down US1 (away from Downtown), not sure of the name of that area. That area where Garcia's is, on the East side of 95 seems to be mostly black with whites and Hispanics thrown in as well. East Little Havana believe it or not has a lot of black, whites and Hispanics. We were researching the area recently and started spending time over there to get a feel of the area, and the diversity was shocking given what you are always told of the place. I am talking the east side of Little Havana to be specific. The roads I would also argue has a decent mixture. Yes, some of the western suburbs are heavily Hispanic, but that is no different than any other big city. I am from Brooklyn originally and it is not uncommon to find areas that are heavily one ethnic group with little interaction with other groups. Older cities tend to be like that, with some areas being more diverse.
As for Brickell, Coconut Grove, Edgewater, Midtown, Downtown or Downtown Coral Gables "for most families there are inherent problems to living in the areas [i] describe", that statement is rather confusing. Coconut Grove has TONS of families and has one of the top rated grade schools in Miami. Brickell also has a up and coming elementary schools (Southside Elementary) with a very good magnet program. Edgewater has a lot of families moving in, though the zoned grade school isn't the best yet. Though i do believe it received a B last year. besides the zone school you also have the Children's Museum charter school which is pretty decent. Then there is a school in that area that is lottery based, which is using the IB curriculum, which is one of the best curriculums in the world. The school zoned for downtown Coral Gables is also pretty good. So I am not quit sure what you are talking about in this regard. Now I can't speak for south beach, because I don't know any families living there, but I do know families living int he areas I have mentioned previously and I am the father of a child and I live in Coconut Grove, and the amount of families in the Grove is VERY high. We also have great parks and events in the Grove. Downtown Coral Gables may not have the amount of parks we have, but they do have a lot going on in terms of events. I don't think you can take your South Beach experience and try to apply it to the all neighborhoods on the East side of Miami, because that doesn't work, its apples and oranges.
Yes, you are correct. I was speaking to the general populace of middle class professionals living in the suburbs (which the OP seemed to fit that profile) who would not live in the various areas you describe. The inherent problems I referenced for families in those areas are specifically geared towards quality public school education and proximity to high crime/low income areas that some outsiders thinking of moving may not be comfortable with. Unless noted, most posters here are not in the position to afford Ransom Everglades, Carrollton and pay for a home in these areas.
However, I will stop making blanket statements as there are, in fact, too many variables in Miami and a family with means can carve out an adequate bubble for themselves.
I don't understand this definition of third word. It seems it includes suburban living, lack of diversity and possibly Spanish speaking. Residential areas close to the beach are very limited anywhere in the US, this is just not a Miami thing.
I've noticed this too....
"Third-world" has completely lost its meaning. It used to mean slums, rampant violence, and utter destitution. Now its code for "working-class suburbs with large minority population."
Makes me wonder sometimes what people truly want to say when they throw around this term.....
I agree with what your are saying here, but being a Native New Yorker myself, I can say the same for the Metro area of New York City. Living in Manhattan is vastly different than living in Sound View, or Far Rockaway or Sheepshead bay for example. The amenities you will have available to you will be different and the socio-economic make up will be different. Heck even in Manhattan things can change drastically. Living in Inwood is very different from living in Washington Heights, as opposed to living in Chelsea, The Upper East Side or Morning Side Heights. This is also true in Chicago, Washington DC and every other old, major city. I think White Americans have a issue in Miami because they find themselves as minorities, a position they are not used to. I am not white, nor do I have a problem with living among Hispanics. The Hispanic population didn't determine my move to Coconut Grove, it was the walk-ability, great schools, parks and access to mass transit. We would have moved downtown, but the parking issue with some of the buildings there precluded us from doing that.
I agree, good points. In reverse, when I speak of New York I speak from my experience living exclusively in Manhattan and I am able to recognize that my viewpoint is therefore drastically different from someone in the rest of the city or suburbs.
If I were to move to Miami full time and not live near family I would choose the Grove or Miami Beach and my viewpoint would be different than it is now from visiting family members who are in Doral, Gables, Kendall and Palmetto Bay.
I don't understand this definition of third word. It seems it includes suburban living, lack of diversity and possibly Spanish speaking. Residential areas close to the beach are very limited anywhere in the US, this is just not a Miami thing.
Most Americans live in non diverse suburbs by choice surrounded by big box retail stores and strip malls. It just happens that many suburbs in Miami are hispanic while most suburbs in the US are white non hispanic. How can Miami suburbs be that different from other US suburbs when they all look extremely similar? Crappy shopping in Pinecrest? Most places in the US wished they had access to the stores people in Pinecrest have access to.
Anyone expecting an area with 2.5 million people to look like a vacation brochure must not be very familiar with cities and metro areas in general or must be a naive young hispter.
I was trying to point out the large gap in how people project they live and yet in reality truly live in large swaths of Miami and how in some ways it is as strikingly different as the places I referenced.
I also tend to read into when people on this forum have thrown out the third world description and the knee jerk reaction is for others to take offense by believing it is solely based on the hispanic presence but I have felt in the past that perhaps it was based on an OPs observation of this "reality" gap.
Perhaps I am wrong in this inference of other's posts and by no means is my personal understanding or definition of a third world country based upon the lifestyle differences I described between these communities in Miami.
Regarding your question, though, Miami suburbs do feel drastically different than many other US suburbs and it is certainly based upon its predominantly latino influences. I am not noting that they are wrong or bad, just very different than many other US suburbs.
I would also state that many suburbs in NY/NJ do not feel like a typical US suburb. There is a bell curve and these suburbs certainly fit into the norm and the fabric of the US but I would suggest any number of nearby suburbs in nearby Broward, Palm Beach, outside of Orlando or Tampa or Jacksonville, Atlanta etc... As more typical to what people expect as a "typical" American suburb with variety but a basis and culture more aligned with traditional American customs.
Miami suburbs are not a melting pot just as a suburb outside of Birmingham, Alabama would be recognized as being a more typical Southern suburb versus representative of the US in general. You may like the suburbs but if you don't like many of the focused interests and accents in Birmingham you may be dissatisfied there and as much as someone may tell you from there it is a typical American suburb you would know that there were things there that skew it towards having a Southern feel or character that is indisputable.
Last edited by shamrockfisher; 05-08-2014 at 09:47 AM..
Yes, you are correct. I was speaking to the general populace of middle class professionals living in the suburbs (which the OP seemed to fit that profile) who would not live in the various areas you describe. The inherent problems I referenced for families in those areas are specifically geared towards quality public school education and proximity to high crime/low income areas that some outsiders thinking of moving may not be comfortable with. Unless noted, most posters here are not in the position to afford Ransom Everglades, Carrollton and pay for a home in these areas.
However, I will stop making blanket statements as there are, in fact, too many variables in Miami and a family with means can carve out an adequate bubble for themselves.
I think the problem is your lack of familiarity with the areas being discussed. Coconut Grove has a A/B PUBLIC elementary school i.e. Coconut Grove Elementary. The Middle School is Ponce De Leone which I think is B/C and it has one of the best IB programs in the country. Then there is coral gables high which also has one of the best IB programs in the country. So, no one has to pay a dime to send their kid to get a quality education in the Grove. The other schools I listed, in relation to the other areas I mentioned, are also public schools. I believe a lot of people do not do proper research about much of anything in this life. Then when they get lemons they want to cry about it. If people are proactive they can find really good areas on the east side of Miami, in a diverse area. There will naturally be trade offs for sure, but you can do it, if you want it. I'm not going to lie and say Miami is the best city ever, it isn't. Not even close. But it isn't dire straights either.
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