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The Latin culture that you're going to find here in Miami consists mainly of immigrants just going about their day-to-day lives, many of whom are struggling to get by. It's not like you'll be immersed in some kind of dreamy cultural experiences by virtue of living here.
Isn't that true for every single place on earth with human beings, just people going about their day-to-day lives? I think he knows he's not coming to see salsa and merengue festivals with thousands of people dancing on the streets every day, but that just by being immersed daily (and nightly) in the city's life would make him happier than living where he's at right now, and going by what he has been saying he's most likely right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanCrossroads
And the only reason there's a larger "Latino Professional Class" here in Miami is because Hispanics comprise the majority of the county's population.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say but aren't you stating the obvious? If hispanics are the majority of the population then of course there's a large latino (whatever that word means) professional class.
Honestly OP, you sound like somewhat of an idealist.
The Latin culture that you're going to find here in Miami consists mainly of immigrants just going about their day-to-day lives, many of whom are struggling to get by. It's not like you'll be immersed in some kind of dreamy cultural experiences by virtue of living here.
And the only reason there's a larger "Latino Professional Class" here in Miami is because Hispanics comprise the majority of the county's population.
And the only reason there's a larger "Latino Professional Class" here in Miami is because Hispanics comprise the majority of the county's population. Uhm, am I missing something here? That's my whole point. I really don't think that there are any other major cities in the U.S. that have this. Maybe NYC on some scale but outside of that the Latino Professional class as a majority or near majority of the workforce of any major city is pretty much non-existant with the exception of Miami and possibly NYC, but I think Miami even edges out NYC on that front.
Isn't that true for every single place on earth with human beings, just people going about their day-to-day lives? I think he knows he's not coming to see salsa and merengue festivals with thousands of people dancing on the streets every day, but that just by being immersed daily (and nightly) in the city's life would make him happier than living where he's at right now, and going by what he has been saying he's most likely right.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say but aren't you stating the obvious? If hispanics are the majority of the population then of course there's a large latino (whatever that word means) professional class.
Exactly. It's kind of like a black person wanting to live in Atlanta or and Asian wanting to live in Honolulu. It's not like people are going to be celebrating in the streets, but they share more in common. I mean it makes total sense why a professional black guy would move to Atlanta, because in Atlanta that African American culture is much more embraced and the professional class is much bigger.
Yeah I don't understand the second point. That is exactly what I want, a place where there are a lot of Latinos, and not just Mexicans, but more of the type that I am accustomed to and enjoy their culture like Cubans, Puerto Ricans, Brazilians and Colombians. Obviously I wouldn't go to Seattle or Devner to seek that.
I like Miami, but it's definitely a place that isn't for everyone. For me, there are a few downsides, and the biggest one is the weather. If you like hot and humid, Miami is the place to be. Yes, there are places that are worse, but that doesn't make Miami's humidity pleasant, either. I admit, it probably is more tolerable when you're living close to the beach and can just walk there and take a dip any time you feel like it, not to mention the breeze off the water. Inland Miami, though, is not as pleasant.
In terms of Miami rudeness, yes, it does exist. It's not a matter of people just not greeting the people they pass, it's that people will literally go out of their way to be rude. If you're driving and put on your turn signal to change lanes, people will intentionally block you. There is a reason the insurance rates are so high here. A really high percentage of the drivers here learned how to drive in countries that don't have the same rules of the road and they don't bother to learn the local customs and regulations. They don't use their turn signals, they cut you off left and right, and like someone else said, you really have to learn to be a defensive driver.
That said, if you can adjust, it's not a bad place. Sure, it's full of idiots that can't drive worth a damn, and people that are literally more plastic than flesh (living in Aventura, I've seen way too many 75 year old ladies that have been nipped and tucked to the point where they look like Joan Rivers and the cat lady mated), but living here is what you make of it. The "normal" neighborhoods are pretty nice, and the food and coffee are killer.
In terms of Miami rudeness, yes, it does exist. It's not a matter of people just not greeting the people they pass, it's that people will literally go out of their way to be rude. If you're driving and put on your turn signal to change lanes, people will intentionally block you. There is a reason the insurance rates are so high here. A really high percentage of the drivers here learned how to drive in countries that don't have the same rules of the road and they don't bother to learn the local customs and regulations. They don't use their turn signals, they cut you off left and right, and like someone else said, you really have to learn to be a defensive driver.
I haven't been in a major city where the drivers let you merge in front of them. Some are worse than others, but honestly I didn't get this vibe in Miami (but then I don't drive as much).
The worst place I encountered this behavior was Los Angeles, where as soon as you switch on your turn signal a driver begins to box you out. So as a result I stopped using my turn signals and it's a bad habit to this day, I will swerve in and out of lanes without them.
But then, unless there is some sort of issue with your lane, you should always merge behind someone, not in front. And by behind, I mean with ample room between cars that are approaching you. A lot of people expect to merge in front of you only for you to require slowing down, that won't happen. Welcome to city traffic.
I haven't been in a major city where the drivers let you merge in front of them. Some are worse than others, but honestly I didn't get this vibe in Miami (but then I don't drive as much).
The worst place I encountered this behavior was Los Angeles, where as soon as you switch on your turn signal a driver begins to box you out. So as a result I stopped using my turn signals and it's a bad habit to this day, I will swerve in and out of lanes without them.
But then, unless there is some sort of issue with your lane, you should always merge behind someone, not in front. And by behind, I mean with ample room between cars that are approaching you. A lot of people expect to merge in front of you only for you to require slowing down, that won't happen. Welcome to city traffic.
Right. This happens in Chicago all the time. They see I want to merge in a lane and they purposely won't let me. Heck I do it to other as well. Happened to me just this morning.
That's why I am so skeptic of some of the critics on here. They complain about things in Miami that I notice are just parts of the city that you see everywhere like in Boston, NYC, Chicago, SF, LA, etc.
I haven't been in a major city where the drivers let you merge in front of them. Some are worse than others, but honestly I didn't get this vibe in Miami (but then I don't drive as much).
The worst place I encountered this behavior was Los Angeles, where as soon as you switch on your turn signal a driver begins to box you out. So as a result I stopped using my turn signals and it's a bad habit to this day, I will swerve in and out of lanes without them.
But then, unless there is some sort of issue with your lane, you should always merge behind someone, not in front. And by behind, I mean with ample room between cars that are approaching you. A lot of people expect to merge in front of you only for you to require slowing down, that won't happen. Welcome to city traffic.
You are always going to be merging in front of someone. If you tried to wait until there wasn't anyone that would be behind you, you're very rarely going to merge. Yes, you should be matching speed (which is also a peeve of mine, the people that try to merge while going 10-15 miles under the speed of traffic), but I don't understand why people have to be asses and intentionally block people from getting in front of them when there is no reason to block them. That's one of the major issues with traffic in Miami, that people can't stand to let anyone in front of them. No one wants to merge for construction or a wreck, so you wind up with 3-4 lanes of traffic all inching forward to fit into one lane, which slows traffic down even more than it would be if people would just let people merge.
Coming from Atlanta, it was crazy for me. I mean, Atlanta drivers are stupid and regularly take a hard right from the far left lane (seriously, I learned to always alternate vehicles because so many people did that), but at least they're predictable in their stupidity and they let people merge.
And discussing Miami drivers with coworkers of mine who came from major cities all over the country, Miami drivers are unique in their "badness." New York drivers are not great, but they're still predictable, so you know what to expect. Miami drivers are completely unpredictable, so you have to be prepared for them to do anything.
OP, you sound like you have done a lot of good research. Congrats! You will be able to make a reasonable decision for yourself without huge consequences. If you move here and don't like it, just make sure you have enough saved up to move on. No big deal.
I liked many things about Miami, but ultimately it was too racist and superficial for me to stand living there. That is hard to explain, because it is not every person that you meet that is like that. I made several close friends in the years that I lived there. It's just that the overall culture is like that, not so much individuals, which pervades every day things like the media, how you interact with strangers, experiences at one's job, experiences in one's neighborhood, etc. Miami is very socially segregated. There are a ton of cool people there. But they are in the minority with their openness to people different from them. Wealthy white Cubans and South Americans run the city, and they're not exactly open to people with darker skin, so that also affects all the residents on the daily. Miami also has no activism or culture of volunteerism (or caring about people other than oneself and one's family) whatsoever, so that might be different than your experience in Chicago, where many people are openly involved in social justice issues.
I moved just a year and a half ago to the Florida Keys, just South of Miami, so I am still able to visit Miami frequently and take the good, and leave the bad behind me when I go home. The Keys have a terrible economy for workers, and are overall a bad choice for a place to live for a majority of people so I can't recommend them, but they fit me very well and are extremely open to different kinds of people. If you're obsessed with the water, they're great. Many people feel that the Ft. Lauderdale area is more tolerant of different types of people, and ultimately more diverse, than Miami is. But it is less dominantly Latin American. So that could be an alternate choice for you if you want the warm weather and not the racism and superficiality, but it's not perfect either, and ultimately Miami may be a better choice for you culturally.
One other thing to consider is that Miami is not a good place to experience Nature unless you're at the beach (which I personally don't see how you can ever get tired of). The interior is swampy and often unbearably hot with no breeze, and most of it is radically manipulated and pruned and fertilized within an inch of its life. The walkable areas don't have large open parks in which to enjoy naturally occurring plants, and one almost never sees wildlife in Miami other than cockroaches (common due to the Everglades being their home), or other bugs. The landscape has been too radically altered to get many songbirds, and there is too much pesticide everywhere for most other animals to exist. Miami startles me with its utter lack of roadkill - every single lump you see is a palm frond. Not enough wild animals live in Miami to get hit by cars. For many people, this inability to connect with nature would be very difficult to live with. If you have money and can live near the beach for easy access, or frequently escape the city, it is easier.
It sounds like you know enough about the real Miami to make a decent decision, and then whether you like it or not will ultimately come down to your actual experience when you get here. Be sure to have income lined up first. Miami chews up and spits out broke people, which is true of a lot of places, except than Miami attracts more of them who want to be broke there intentionally. Many people who see Miami as exclusively positive have never been poor in Miami, because Miami is utterly lacking in services for the poor more than many other large cities, such as public transportation, or movements to encourage safety, equality, and improved education for the poor. Chicago has far more services for people in need than Miami does, per capita.
Last edited by StarfishKey; 04-13-2015 at 05:49 PM..
OP: If you are into scuba diving and of Hispanic origin, you'll fit right in in Miami. There's people who move to south FL just to scuba dive(great reefs and diving options down there). Plus you have the Keys 1-2 hrs south.
I often venture to South FL but very rarely get into Dade cty. I prefer Lauderdale or Palm Beach, but then again even those are considered metro Miami area. It seems the more south I drive, the more congested and somewhat dirty it gets. DT Miami is great. INMO Miami is fairly big (not a medium sized city, given its skyline). Should be a fun city if you're young. For people who want to settle down and have a family, not sure. However, I do see some nice areas on the west part of Dade cty(Weston, Pemproke etc..)
+1 .. I am one of those people that moved here for the diving and learned to love the rest (especially the no state income tax part coming from NY and DC). I've been here 8 years now.
If walkability is highly important, I suggest Brickell.
I thought of 2 other things that might affect your experience here, that I don't think anyone mentioned:
1. With the large Latin American and Caribbean population, comes different attitudes about pets from the mainstream US. Get ready for rampant feral cats and dogs, and also a huge amount of animal abuse - especially if you happen to live in an area with outdoor patios or space such that you will see a ton of people leaving their pets on the hot patio with no food or water all day, or otherwise left outside so you will see and hear them beat their animals. Prepare yourself also for a huge amount of total disinterest and apathy for the suffering of animals. Additionally, I found that some 90% of people in Miami are totally unaware of the concept of picking up their pet's waste. Thus, between the feral animals and the pets with irresponsible owners, the beaches and grass are utterly filled with pet excrement. The beaches and parks are not dog friendly, so you can't bring your pet to most of them, but that doesn't stop the hordes of feral cats from using the beach as their own mass kitty litter. When I lived in Miami, I encountered animal excrement literally every single day I was there. I learned never to walk in the grass near where I lived because it was filled with it. Likewise, never walk on the beach if you have cut your foot or leg - cover it and leave immediately. If you live in an apartment or condo that includes outdoor space, expect that to be your experience too. Some people will find this to be no big deal, and some people will be driven out of their mind by it. It really depends on one's personal culture and values. People in single family houses will tend to deal less with this, except the abundance of animals crapping on their front lawn.
2. One other thing to consider, is that SFL is very geographically isolated. From Chicago, you can easily hop in a car and drive to the East, the West, the South, or the North. Your options to get away and experience something different are endless, and quite easy. In SFL, you have a good 8 hour drive ahead of you simply to get out of the state, and the only way to go is up. Then your first two options are 2 other large states - GA, and AL. So you have a VERY long way to go if you want something other than Deep Southern culture (which also pervades the Northern half of FL). Day trips to other states are out - something I was very used to in previous states in which I lived. This is all the more important when a hurricane hits (and yes, it's when, not if in this part of the country). There are few highways heading N-S, so pretty much the whole state ends up cramming either the turnpike or I-95 on a very long journey out of state. Plus then you need to factor in evacuation costs. Not all storms require evacuation, but if you are unfamiliar with what hurricanes can do in the Miami area, look up Hurricane Andrew. So again, for many, being so isolated is not a dealbreaker, and again, if you are wealthy it's much less of an issue because you can just fly out nearly any time and to any place. But if you have to keep to a budget, this is going to suck from time to time. And SFL is overdue statistically for a major hurricane hit, so whenever that happens that will also suck.
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