Anyone on this board moved to NC? (Miami, Hialeah: apartment, homes)

[305guy]

"Technically, Raleigh's downtown scene is head and shoulders above Miami's."

RNC - I agree with the majority of your post and having lived in Raleigh and currently in Miami, I just disagree with the above. Downtown Miami (day or night) isn't even in the same league with Raleigh's. I don't know what you mean by technically but I think you're way off. Maybe you haven't been to downtown Miami recently but there are alot of nightclubs and bars/restaurants that are getting alot of attention down here (Karu and Y, Space, Gordon Biersch Brewery, Circa 28, Centro). As far as people living there, it doesn't even come close. Mary Brickell Village is a new complex of shops and restaurants/bars (PF changs, Blue Martini etc.) that alot of locals are going to as happy hour nightspots. Also, the Deco District in Miami has been revitalized and there are art shows/events there every month as well as great restaurants. Then you have the traditional venues like Bayside and the American Airlines Arena with the concerts in addition to the new Carnival Center for the Performing Arts.

Raleigh's downtown head and shoulder's above Miami's? C'mon..let's keep it real.

[copacetic]

Isn't it strange to try to compare Miami to NC? It hurts my brain. They aren't even in the same genre. It's like comparing a baseball team to a hockey team, to decide which one would win. Miami is a world class city. NC is suburbia. Maybe compare NC to Boca Raton instead. That makes a little more sense.

[miamiblue]

I think rnc2mbfl was comparing the two cities relative to what they are. Miami is a much larger city (population-wise) compared to Raleigh. Therefore, one would expect Miami's downtown to be more evolved than it is currently.

I think that Miami's downtown has evolved some from what it was even just two years ago, but it is still far from what it should be, considering how much attention Miami gets, how "international" it is as a city, the fact that it relies on a tourism based economy, and of course it's size. It just doesn't seem as if as many people (local government and residents alike) are interested in making downtown Miami what it should be, and that is a shame.

This is where the relative comparison to Raleigh's downtown comes into play. As a smaller city, there is a lot more interest in making downtown Raleigh a place where people want to go (all people, not just those with a lot of cash flow), and there are private investors making that happen - and not just with high-rise condos and an upscale mall masquerading as downtown flavor. Perhaps someday the right types of investors will take a liking to downtown Miami, because there is potential there. But there needs to be motivation based on a vested interest in downtown Miami as part of a vibrant community, and not only the prospect of a massive profit.

By the way, NC is a state, Miami is a city, so obviously no comparison can be made in that vein. All we can do is compare city to city. It is strange to compare Miami and Raleigh in a linear fashion because of their size and even geography, but the OP was asking for these types of comparisons.

[305guy]

Unfortunately, Miami's downtown is/was home to a lot of government section-8 housing whereas Raleigh doesn't have that issue. No developer is going to want to get close to high-crime, inner-city problems that come with the set up Miami has downtown. Recently (over the last few years) the City is moving to try and bring some kind of development to the area, so it has changed alot. Developers are coming in now and are trying to change the face/demographics of what was once - and in many respects still is - a violent crime area. One can sense a community down there now in some parts of downtown Miami rather than just a tourist destination. They still have a way to go but I think it's going in the right direction.

With a larger, older city comes larger problems. In all fairness, Raleigh has never had the challenge of a large, goverment subsidized housing project.

[miamiblue]

Originally Posted by 305guy

With a larger, older city comes larger problems. In all fairness, Raleigh has never had the challenge of a large, goverment subsidized housing project.

305guy, you probably already know this, but Raleigh did in fact have several housing projects in the downtown vicinity that were big enough (for the city's realtive size) to cause most of downtown to be highly undesirable 10-15 years ago: Halifax Court and Chavis Heights were state-run projects that helped deteriorate many of the surrounding neighborhoods (including Glenwood South, Oakwood, Mordecai and Boylan Heights). Both Both projects have now been redeveloped as mixed-income communities using HOPE VI grants: Capitol Park (former Halifax Court) opened a few years ago, and the new Chavis Heights opened last year. Capitol Park has been a huge success, with the surrounding neighborhoods seeing a lot of investment since the demolition of Halifax Court. Walnut Terrace is a project that still exists today, having recently been denied a HOPE VI grant, and it continues to contribute to the problems south of downtown Raleigh.

Chavis Heights in east downtown is still new and another mixed-income/mixed-use development called Carlton Place also recently opened in that area. The neighborhoods in this area have a high concentration of low-income residents and a high crime rate. Since these developments were approved, more middle-income people have started investing in the east downtown neighborhoods, fixing up former slum rental homes to live in.

Most downtowns across the country were in the same shape as Miami at some point, or still are. Post-WWII, people fled urban areas for the solace of the burbs, real estate became cheap in the undesirable urban neighborhoods, thus attracting the subsidized housing leading to the surrounding neighborhoods becoming run down and attracting crime (the Broken Window Theory).

This is not unique to Miami - as I said before, Miami needs the right investors with the right vision. I think now that the real estate market there is correcting itself, it might be the perfect opportunity to make this happen. If it can be done in Atlanta, it can be done in Miami.

The Miami Housing Agency website shows that there is a HOPE VI project (http://www.miamidade.gov/housing/hope6.asp - broken link)currently underway in the Brownsville area. While it is nice to see this project, I think the most success in redeveloping blighted public housing projects will be with mixed-income projects rather than just continuing to lump the city's poorest in with each other. I am not sure if Miami is ready for that, considering the sharp socioeconomic divides that strongly exist there.

Sorry for going way off topic. It doesn't seem as though the OP has really posted any more specific questions on this thread, though.

[jward1001]

You can't compare Miami to Raleigh. Miami's size, population, location, history, and personality would just smother Raleigh!

[305guy]

Miamiblue: Mixed use development is what appears to be happening in the Design District. They have put up some affordable shopping (Target) and alot of similar shops in that area that are all brand new. I think it's a step in the right direction. While the area still has a lot of crime, you can see an effort is being made to rejuvenate the area.

Keep in mind that the challenge Miami has is larger just due to population size alone and like you said - social/racial tensions plays a strong factor as well.

[himain]

CTR-Since you visited my forum, I'll visit yours

I lived in Jacksonville and it was NOT exciting at all. Charlotte is better than Jville, I promise. Have you been to Jville?

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by himain

CTR-Since you visited my forum, I'll visit yours

I lived in Jacksonville and it was NOT exciting at all. Charlotte is better than Jville, I promise. Have you been to Jville?

Can't remember exactly how many times but I have. Haven't been in about a year but every time I went up there it got three steps better with all of the improvements they are making. Like Charlotte they have crime issues that they need to tackle and the police force is a little soft but I see potential. Charlotte just seemed to have more and more houses and shopping every time I visited. I still wouldn't live in either or call them "exciting" . I am just saying that JAX at least has some cool historic neighborhoods and the river to give it a little identity. I think in terms of everything else they are actually a fair match. Just my opinion .

[doggiebus]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

Can't remember exactly how many times but I have. Haven't been in about a year but every time I went up there it got three steps better with all of the improvements they are making. Like Charlotte they have crime issues that they need to tackle and the police force is a little soft but I see potential. Charlotte just seemed to have more and more houses and shopping every time I visited. I still wouldn't live in either or call them "exciting" . I am just saying that JAX at least has some cool historic neighborhoods and the river to give it a little identity. I think in terms of everything else they are actually a fair match. Just my opinion .

I have to agree, both are pretty bland places to live. What I think Charlotte is lacking (and Jacksonville for the most part), is character (that may come with time). Charlotte has a very suburban (cookie cutter) feel to the entire area. Yes there are older areas, but overall just a pretty bland place. I had high hopes when we did a scout trip there recently, but just didn't have enough character IMO.

I tried to give you a point, but "need to spread it around".