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I've recently retired somewhat early and plan on moving to the Miami area in 2021. Whenever I tell friends and family of my imminent move from the Northeast I receive a mix of feedback...none of which is very positive. I get everything from eyerolls to gasps etc. "Florida huh?" or "I'm not a Florida person" are other common responses. WTF is a "Florida person" anyway??
I consider myself an analytical person who does not make rash decisions without thinking it through. I find myself trying to explain all of the reasons why it's the right move for me but it mostly falls on deaf ears. I also feel the need explain that it's Miami that I'm interested in and not another area... but It's all Florida to them. I just chalk it up to them being misinformed but it is getting tiresome.
I'm trying to figure out where this bias is coming from. Perhaps it's the occasional crazy sensationalized news stories that get national attention or maybe the political climate being different from the Northeast. Either way I'm looking forward to some warm winters in a thriving international metropolis.
What's the deal with the bias? Do any transplants have a similar experience?
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
7,409 posts, read 6,540,013 times
Reputation: 6677
I grew up in NY, spent most of my professional career in CA, and moved to Miami for my final 2 years of work before retiring early late last year with plenty of gas left in the tank (I’ve got 20 years before I move to a senior golfing community...lol).
I harbored doubt about Florida (in spite of 20+ prior visits over the years to SoFla) until I started coming on a regular basis 4-5x/year on business at the end of 2013 with vacation days added on. Miami is the only area I could live in the state as I opted to move here from San Diego for more urban excitement and amenities yet in a more compact setting than massive and even more congested LA.
Some, perhaps many and those less familiar with the city, still have an outdated notion of Miami from the 1980’s—it has improved dramatically within the past few decades and offers great bang for the buck compared to some coastal cities in the Northeast (specifically, NYC) and California with less negatives (far less homeless, we witnessed far less damage from protests, etc). Even the summers are not as bad as many make them out to be depending upon where you settle (coastal mainland Miami and Miami Beach receive bay and/or ocean breezes that helps mitigate some of the heat).
It also depends on your career situation—even though this will not pertain to you. Miami seems better suited for those who can bring their job and/or wealth earned elsewhere with them as it does not possess as many corporate and/or career path wealth building opportunities outside of medicine, law and finance as some other coastal cities do. Some incredulously think there are only tourism jobs here and Miami is an East Coast version of Tijuana—nothing could be further from the truth.
Florida seems to get a bad rap whenever a national incident occurs here—but it does not hold a monopoly license on this (CA has had its share of beauties over the years)...finally, Miami is a minority majority city. I welcome and embrace this mixed cultural environment though some people who are afraid to or prefer mingling with their own kind look down on Miami (thinking you must speak Spanish—again, not true) and opt, instead, for more conservative and homogeneous White America in Palm Beach County (but then you are looking at a less exciting suburban, not urban, lifestyle with far more retirees, including a few kvetching ex NY’ers...now I’m generalizing).
Bottom line, Miami is an exciting, clean & modern, sexy, international and cultural city with plenty of top tier city amenities and events throughout the year if you can afford to take advantage. It has gotten expensive over the years but, again, remains a relative bargain compared to other exciting coastal cities in a year round warm weather, ocean front environment.
Last edited by elchevere; 12-28-2020 at 12:12 PM..
I've recently retired somewhat early and plan on moving to the Miami area in 2021. Whenever I tell friends and family of my imminent move from the Northeast I receive a mix of feedback...none of which is very positive. I get everything from eyerolls to gasps etc. "Florida huh?" or "I'm not a Florida person" are other common responses. WTF is a "Florida person" anyway??
I consider myself an analytical person who does not make rash decisions without thinking it through. I find myself trying to explain all of the reasons why it's the right move for me but it mostly falls on deaf ears. I also feel the need explain that it's Miami that I'm interested in and not another area... but It's all Florida to them. I just chalk it up to them being misinformed but it is getting tiresome.
I'm trying to figure out where this bias is coming from. Perhaps it's the occasional crazy sensationalized news stories that get national attention or maybe the political climate being different from the Northeast. Either way I'm looking forward to some warm winters in a thriving international metropolis.
What's the deal with the bias? Do any transplants have a similar experience?
I can't speak to the northeast bias against Miami/Florida. Though I will say I think some folks in the northeast look at "hedonistic" cities like Miami or Los Angeles and they only see superficiality.
I'll just say that as someone from So. California (LA specifically) that South Florida and the Miami area in general is about the only other region of the country I'd choose to live in. Yes, quite a bit of that is driven by a personal preference for warmer weather and a desire to be in an interesting eclectic urban setting.
Although I am not Latino I am comfortable being around Latin American culture and speak decent (gringo/conversational) Spanish. I think SOME people do get bent out of shape about the idea of being in a region heavily influenced by Latin America. Not an issue at all for me and if anything I see it as a net positive.
Miami is an exciting, clean & modern, sexy, international and cultural city
I've lived here for 3 years. It's exciting enough. There's usually something going on. And you can always do the Miami Beach thing.
I don't know about clean and modern. The downtown area where I live is kind of dirty, in part due to the large homeless population. The construction of the roads is bad. I even had a Venezuelan tourist make this observation. The public transportation is average and isn't sufficient for the size of the city. The housing is old. Yes, we have a lot of highrises in downtown and Brickell. However, a lot of the detached homes are old. Ditto for the apartment complexes in the more "traditional" or "historic" neighborhoods such as Little Havana. I've seen some truly modern homes in Miami Beach--along with all the old ones that are WAY overpriced--and the price tags are OUTRAGEOUS. Overall, I don't see Miami as being clean and modern. The cleanliness and modernity of the DC metro area shames that of Miami. And don't even get me started on some places in Europe like London.
It's certainly international, both because half of the residents are immigrants and because we have so many tourists. That has advantages and disadvantages. One HUGE advantage is that there are SO many smoking hot chicks. The disadvantage is that it's hard for people to get on the same page and there really isn't any unifying culture (outside of arrogance), which leads into your last point.
Culture? I just don't see it. The culture of Miami is vanity and egoism. Overall, the people are rather rude, irritable, and aggressive. The drivers are the worst I've seen in the United States, with the possible exception of Manhattan. It's gotten so bad with people going off on me that I am taking a concealed carry certification course TOMORROW. This is probably going to tick some people on here off given the demographics of this city, but I blame some of this phenomenon on Cuban culture. Let's be honest. Cubans can be very irritable, temperamental people and have a very strong, guttural way of talking that can come off as unduly brusque. Their horrible history is reflected in their voices, culture, and way of being. At the same time, because modern Miami was partly founded by the fair-skinned Cuban elite, they can be extremely arrogant and dismissive of outsiders. And don't get me started on Hispanic Americans. They've inherited a lot of the negative cultural habits of their parents, and have also adopted some of the worst aspects of American culture (e.g., urban machismo). Although they are not all like this, I find the ones who have maintained a close connection to the Latin American immigrants to be very "fence straddling," which can make for some awkward social interactions. Oh, and by the way, I'm one of those non-Hispanic Americans who speaks Spanish extremely well and has lived in Latin American and dated Latin American women--so don't label me as a bigot or anything. We all have our views--and biases--for sure, but there are aspects of Hispanic culture that I like. And there's no denying that Hispanic women have the most sex appeal IMO.
But, at the end of the day, I live here because I have a really good job and the weather is almost unbeatable. Unless you are really into the Hispanic culture and like vain, rude, aggressive, and nativistic Latin American people, I could not in good conscious recommend this city. This coming from someone who owns here and has an economic incentive to talk this place up.
I'm out of here in as little as 1.5 years if I can hit certain financial targets. At least the weather's nice . . .
I've recently retired somewhat early and plan on moving to the Miami area in 2021. Whenever I tell friends and family of my imminent move from the Northeast I receive a mix of feedback...none of which is very positive. I get everything from eyerolls to gasps etc. "Florida huh?" or "I'm not a Florida person" are other common responses. WTF is a "Florida person" anyway??
I consider myself an analytical person who does not make rash decisions without thinking it through. I find myself trying to explain all of the reasons why it's the right move for me but it mostly falls on deaf ears. I also feel the need explain that it's Miami that I'm interested in and not another area... but It's all Florida to them. I just chalk it up to them being misinformed but it is getting tiresome.
I'm trying to figure out where this bias is coming from. Perhaps it's the occasional crazy sensationalized news stories that get national attention or maybe the political climate being different from the Northeast. Either way I'm looking forward to some warm winters in a thriving international metropolis.
What's the deal with the bias? Do any transplants have a similar experience?
Pennsylvania transplant here:
There are too many people that come down on vacation, think 70 Degrees in the winter is a dream and want to live here. Reality is that Florida life is not for everyone, and it gets REAL OLD when you have had enough.
If you have a good job where you are at, you are going to want to keep that job remotely because it most likely is much better than what you will find down here.
Seasonal crowding with snowbirds, tourists. and casual transplants trying it out is very irritating. They make life in some areas impossible making residents want out.
The cost of housing is just not worth it anymore. Rent is insane, and Home Prices in many metros are just extreme compared to most of the jobs in the area. Affordable homes in the outskirts are possible but aren't affordable like they use to be.
Costs of insurance is out of control too. Car insurance is outrageous because too many arent insured, and it is a No Fault state that just takes accountability away from the drivers. Homeowners insurance is insane too, if you have to file a claim, with Hurricanes down here you will most likely have to... be prepared to fight the insurance company, then their adjusters, hire a lawyer, then you have to sort through all the scam artist contractors to do the repairs, and babysit their workers to make them actually do the job right. If you are coming down with the NYC fight for everything mentality, you'll Be fine. If you come down here thinking you want to get away from that lifestyle you wont last and end up going home bitter and broke.
Miami is an exciting, clean & modern, sexy, international and cultural city
I've lived here for 3 years. It's exciting enough. There's usually something going on. And you can always do the Miami Beach thing.
I don't know about clean and modern. The downtown area where I live is kind of dirty, in part due to the large homeless population. The construction of the roads is bad. I even had a Venezuelan tourist make this observation. The public transportation is average and isn't sufficient for the size of the city. The housing is old. Yes, we have a lot of highrises in downtown and Brickell. However, a lot of the detached homes are old. Ditto for the apartment complexes in the more "traditional" or "historic" neighborhoods such as Little Havana. I've seen some truly modern homes in Miami Beach--along with all the old ones that are WAY overpriced--and the price tags are OUTRAGEOUS. Overall, I don't see Miami as being clean and modern. The cleanliness and modernity of the DC metro area shames that of Miami. And don't even get me started on some places in Europe like London.
It's certainly international, both because half of the residents are immigrants and because we have so many tourists. That has advantages and disadvantages. One HUGE advantage is that there are SO many smoking hot chicks. The disadvantage is that it's hard for people to get on the same page and there really isn't any unifying culture (outside of arrogance), which leads into your last point.
Culture? I just don't see it. The culture of Miami is vanity and egoism. Overall, the people are rather rude, irritable, and aggressive. The drivers are the worst I've seen in the United States, with the possible exception of Manhattan. It's gotten so bad with people going off on me that I am taking a concealed carry certification course TOMORROW. This is probably going to tick some people on here off given the demographics of this city, but I blame some of this phenomenon on Cuban culture. Let's be honest. Cubans can be very irritable, temperamental people and have a very strong, guttural way of talking that can come off as unduly brusque. Their horrible history is reflected in their voices, culture, and way of being. At the same time, because modern Miami was partly founded by the fair-skinned Cuban elite, they can be extremely arrogant and dismissive of outsiders. And don't get me started on Hispanic Americans. They've inherited a lot of the negative cultural habits of their parents, and have also adopted some of the worst aspects of American culture (e.g., urban machismo). Although they are not all like this, I find the ones who have maintained a close connection to the Latin American immigrants to be very "fence straddling," which can make for some awkward social interactions. Oh, and by the way, I'm one of those non-Hispanic Americans who speaks Spanish extremely well and has lived in Latin American and dated Latin American women--so don't label me as a bigot or anything. We all have our views--and biases--for sure, but there are aspects of Hispanic culture that I like. And there's no denying that Hispanic women have the most sex appeal IMO.
But, at the end of the day, I live here because I have a really good job and the weather is almost unbeatable. Unless you are really into the Hispanic culture and like vain, rude, aggressive, and nativistic Latin American people, I could not in good conscious recommend this city. This coming from someone who owns here and has an economic incentive to talk this place up.
I'm out of here in as little as 1.5 years if I can hit certain financial targets. At least the weather's nice . . .
Interesting post. I am curious to know where in Latin America you lived and where you plan to move after Miami?
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
7,409 posts, read 6,540,013 times
Reputation: 6677
Culturally, I was referring to Perez Art Museum and Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts--which I usually end up attending events 3-4 times a year (sometimes events sponsored by my college alumni network). Miami is one of only 3 cities in the world (and the only one in North America) to host Art Basel. During normal times I do attend free musical events at The Design District. As you stated there are a number of events (free or otherwise) on Miami Beach as well as annual events--besides Art Basel-- including the SOBEWFF, Coconut Grove Arts Festival, Art Deco Weekend, vintage and exotic car shows, boat shows, some Bayside Marketplace events, Cigar Aficionado Big Smoke, Wine Spectator events, etc. etc.
One might include restaurants (Miami a top 7 restaurant city in my books--would be higher if more Asian cuisine diversity besides some higher end and fusion options, though not surprising given the minimal Asian presence here) and nightlife (top 2-3 in the country)--I appreciate the fact there are options for groomed, professional (and/or early retired) individuals be it at nicer restaurants and/or lounges--not just craft beer bars or full fledged nightclubs for the younger crowd. I also like the fact there is dress code enforcement at the nicer establishments that tends to keep out riff raff. (I do hit casual spots as well--Moxies, Riverside, cigar bars, etc). With that in mind, Miami is a fashion hub and a top 3-4 shopping destination in the country with high end brands and boutiques found in only a few select cities--not dozens.
Clean and modern refers to specific neighborhoods that I frequent--not the entire Miami Dade County. This would include Brickell, Coral Gables, South Miami, revitalized Coconut Grove, portions of Miami Beach, Bal Harbour, etc etc. While you might experience more of a homeless presence in your area, it is nice to be able to sit outdoors and enjoy my coffee without being pestered by aggressive panhandlers (as I have experienced elsewhere) and it really is a minimal factor here compared to other metro areas of the country--see study below (Miami has one of the lowest homeless rates per 100,000 of major cities):
I do agree with you about the aggressiveness and "attitude" of certain Hispanic groups and one definitely needs to pay more attention when crossing the street here as I have nearly been hit by a motorist ignoring a stop sign or red light a dozen times (almost always a person not from the neighborhood and a lesser educated, Spanish only speaking driver who is likely uninsured, possibly here illegally, and unaware of the liability consequences, among other items)....I also find a bit of cockiness amongst certain cycling groups whom, though better off financially than many of the motorists I just described, feel entitled and that common laws do not apply to them either. There are also those who frequently interrupt a conversation I am having with a retail sales associate without saying excuse me or acting as though I am invisible and not there.
In spite of above I do find an overall respectful and well behaved crowd for the most part in the neighborhoods I mentioned above. Many of these people tend to be closer to my age where I hang out, are professionals or business owners, and are comfortable with their position in life (some extremely comfortable) without feeling the need to impress or brag about their status. I could see where one would feel the pressure to "compete" for social acceptance in their 20's and 30's and fall susceptible to feeling jealous of a peer driving an exotic sports car (who might also be one missed payment away from having their car repossessed).
The only other area that is slightly different as a non Hispanic White in Miami is the greater effort required to make initial greetings and friendships, primarily due to different backgrounds. In other cities, my NY Yankee ballcap that I wear during the day would strike up unsolicited conversations (are you from NY?...are you a Yankee fan?....Yankees suck...etc); here, that means nothing and/or if I want a greater likelihood of meeting a fellow non Hispanic White person I will visit Coconut Grove or Miami Beach (or drive up to my hometown friends from NY in Boca and Palm Beach). At the same time, as an early retiree I have more privacy here which becomes a more important factor as you get older than it would for a 20 something who is trying to have more Facebook "friends" than others or impress a young lady at a nightclub.
A Northeast transplant used to mountains and lakes found in upstate NY, Vermont, Pennsylvania, etc will be sorely disappointed here and the entire state--but that should not come as a surprise. I did touch upon the job market and career path earlier on, which is not relevant to the OP--who, like me, would be bringing his wealth earned elsewhere as an early retiree (and keeping more of it with no state income tax). I do find myself sticking within my "bubble" of neighborhoods mentioned above, in part, due to the traffic and possible laziness as I grow older--which is in contrast to some other cities/areas I have lived in in which I drove 15-20K miles/year and was willing to take more road trips (vs. the current 4K miles/year I drive).
Miami is an exciting, clean & modern, sexy, international and cultural city
I've lived here for 3 years. It's exciting enough. There's usually something going on. And you can always do the Miami Beach thing.
I don't know about clean and modern. The downtown area where I live is kind of dirty, in part due to the large homeless population. The construction of the roads is bad. I even had a Venezuelan tourist make this observation. The public transportation is average and isn't sufficient for the size of the city. The housing is old. Yes, we have a lot of highrises in downtown and Brickell. However, a lot of the detached homes are old. Ditto for the apartment complexes in the more "traditional" or "historic" neighborhoods such as Little Havana. I've seen some truly modern homes in Miami Beach--along with all the old ones that are WAY overpriced--and the price tags are OUTRAGEOUS. Overall, I don't see Miami as being clean and modern. The cleanliness and modernity of the DC metro area shames that of Miami. And don't even get me started on some places in Europe like London.
It's certainly international, both because half of the residents are immigrants and because we have so many tourists. That has advantages and disadvantages. One HUGE advantage is that there are SO many smoking hot chicks. The disadvantage is that it's hard for people to get on the same page and there really isn't any unifying culture (outside of arrogance), which leads into your last point.
Culture? I just don't see it. The culture of Miami is vanity and egoism. Overall, the people are rather rude, irritable, and aggressive. The drivers are the worst I've seen in the United States, with the possible exception of Manhattan. It's gotten so bad with people going off on me that I am taking a concealed carry certification course TOMORROW. This is probably going to tick some people on here off given the demographics of this city, but I blame some of this phenomenon on Cuban culture. Let's be honest. Cubans can be very irritable, temperamental people and have a very strong, guttural way of talking that can come off as unduly brusque. Their horrible history is reflected in their voices, culture, and way of being. At the same time, because modern Miami was partly founded by the fair-skinned Cuban elite, they can be extremely arrogant and dismissive of outsiders. And don't get me started on Hispanic Americans. They've inherited a lot of the negative cultural habits of their parents, and have also adopted some of the worst aspects of American culture (e.g., urban machismo). Although they are not all like this, I find the ones who have maintained a close connection to the Latin American immigrants to be very "fence straddling," which can make for some awkward social interactions. Oh, and by the way, I'm one of those non-Hispanic Americans who speaks Spanish extremely well and has lived in Latin American and dated Latin American women--so don't label me as a bigot or anything. We all have our views--and biases--for sure, but there are aspects of Hispanic culture that I like. And there's no denying that Hispanic women have the most sex appeal IMO.
But, at the end of the day, I live here because I have a really good job and the weather is almost unbeatable. Unless you are really into the Hispanic culture and like vain, rude, aggressive, and nativistic Latin American people, I could not in good conscious recommend this city. This coming from someone who owns here and has an economic incentive to talk this place up.
I'm out of here in as little as 1.5 years if I can hit certain financial targets. At least the weather's nice . . .
Last edited by elchevere; 12-29-2020 at 08:32 AM..
Interesting post. I am curious to know where in Latin America you lived and where you plan to move after Miami?
I've lived in Cuernavaca, Mexico and spent time in Puerto Rico. Ideally, I would like to move to the Greater Sacramento area but probably won't be able to because of taxes. Washington State could be a possibility depending on where I'm at financially.
Culturally, I was referring to Perez Art Museum and Adrienne Arsht Center for the Performing Arts--which I usually end up attending events 3-4 times a year (sometimes events sponsored by my college alumni network). Miami is one of only 3 cities in the world (and the only one in North America) to host Art Basel. During normal times I do attend free musical events at The Design District. As you stated there are a number of events (free or otherwise) on Miami Beach as well as annual events--besides Art Basel-- including the SOBEWFF, Coconut Grove Arts Festival, Art Deco Weekend, vintage and exotic car shows, boat shows, some Bayside Marketplace events, Cigar Aficionado Big Smoke, Wine Spectator events, etc. etc.
One might include restaurants (Miami a top 7 restaurant city in my books--would be higher if more Asian cuisine diversity besides some higher end and fusion options, though not surprising given the minimal Asian presence here) and nightlife (top 2-3 in the country)--I appreciate the fact there are options for groomed, professional (and/or early retired) individuals be it at nicer restaurants and/or lounges--not just craft beer bars or full fledged nightclubs for the younger crowd. I also like the fact there is dress code enforcement at the nicer establishments that tends to keep out riff raff. (I do hit casual spots as well--Moxies, Riverside, cigar bars, etc). With that in mind, Miami is a fashion hub and a top 3-4 shopping destination in the country with high end brands and boutiques found in only a few select cities--not dozens.
Clean and modern refers to specific neighborhoods that I frequent--not the entire Miami Dade County. This would include Brickell, Coral Gables, South Miami, revitalized Coconut Grove, portions of Miami Beach, Bal Harbour, etc etc. While you might experience more of a homeless presence in your area, it is nice to be able to sit outdoors and enjoy my coffee without being pestered by aggressive panhandlers (as I have experienced elsewhere) and it really is a minimal factor here compared to other metro areas of the country--see study below (Miami has one of the lowest homeless rates per 100,000 of major cities):
I do agree with you about the aggressiveness and "attitude" of certain Hispanic groups and one definitely needs to pay more attention when crossing the street here as I have nearly been hit by a motorist ignoring a stop sign or red light a dozen times (almost always a person not from the neighborhood and a lesser educated, Spanish only speaking driver who is likely uninsured, possibly here illegally, and unaware of the liability consequences, among other items)....I also find a bit of cockiness amongst certain cycling groups whom, though better off financially than many of the motorists I just described, feel entitled and that common laws do not apply to them either. There are also those who frequently interrupt a conversation I am having with a retail sales associate without saying excuse me or acting as though I am invisible and not there.
In spite of above I do find an overall respectful and well behaved crowd for the most part in the neighborhoods I mentioned above. Many of these people tend to be closer to my age where I hang out, are professionals or business owners, and are comfortable with their position in life (some extremely comfortable) without feeling the need to impress or brag about their status. I could see where one would feel the pressure to "compete" for social acceptance in their 20's and 30's and fall susceptible to feeling jealous of a peer driving an exotic sports car (who might also be one missed payment away from having their car repossessed).
The only other area that is slightly different as a non Hispanic White in Miami is the greater effort required to make initial greetings and friendships, primarily due to different backgrounds. In other cities, my NY Yankee ballcap that I wear during the day would strike up unsolicited conversations (are you from NY?...are you a Yankee fan?....Yankees suck...etc); here, that means nothing and/or if I want a greater likelihood of meeting a fellow non Hispanic White person I will visit Coconut Grove or Miami Beach (or drive up to my hometown friends from NY in Boca and Palm Beach). At the same time, as an early retiree I have more privacy here which becomes a more important factor as you get older than it would for a 20 something who is trying to have more Facebook "friends" than others or impress a young lady at a nightclub.
A Northeast transplant used to mountains and lakes found in upstate NY, Vermont, Pennsylvania, etc will be sorely disappointed here and the entire state--but that should not come as a surprise. I did touch upon the job market and career path earlier on, which is not relevant to the OP--who, like me, would be bringing his wealth earned elsewhere as an early retiree (and keeping more of it with no state income tax). I do find myself sticking within my "bubble" of neighborhoods mentioned above, in part, due to the traffic and possible laziness as I grow older--which is in contrast to some other cities/areas I have lived in in which I drove 15-20K miles/year and was willing to take more road trips (vs. the current 4K miles/year I drive).
I agree with a lot of this and can definitely tell that you live here.
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