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Below is a website that shows real pictures of horses in various stages of weight. It may help some people determine the shape of their horse('s) as some are confused as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.
Below is a website that shows real pictures of horses in various stages of weight. It may help some people determine the shape of their horse('s) as some are confused as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.
Driller, you can continue to bad mouth on public forum but cannot explain your badmouthing privately?
Well, if you're too coward to take up your issues with me privately, how bout you explain yourself here? Since you obviously just can't leave it alone?
As for an issue clouded... well, I would say indirectly accusing someone of neglect / mismanagement of their herd that is not connected to this case whats-so-ever is pulling away from the issue ... How about you reread the post and try to pinpoint the subject line again, eh?
Driller, you can continue to bad mouth on public forum but cannot explain your badmouthing privately?
Well, if you're too coward to take up your issues with me privately, how bout you explain yourself here? Since you obviously just can't leave it alone?
As for an issue clouded... well, I would say indirectly accusing someone of neglect / mismanagement of their herd that is not connected to this case whats-so-ever is pulling away from the issue ... How about you reread the post and try to pinpoint the subject line again, eh?
Not a thing indirect there. At NO TIME would I have hesitated for AC to walk in my barn. NEVER. If other has things to hide, then good for AC. I will back them 100%. Again, there is and always, and should be peer review and balances. BTW, I am not interested in a pen pal, please do not PM me.
I stated my standards, if you feel you do not live up to them, that is your decision.
Not a thing indirect there. At NO TIME would I have hesitated for AC to walk in my barn. NEVER. If other has things to hide, then good for AC. I will back them 100%. Again, there is and always, and should be peer review and balances. BTW, I am not interested in a pen pal, please do not PM me.
And I'm not interested in you badmouthing, implying, and whatever the heck it is you feel entitled to do with me... so how bout you either explain yourself or go on your merry way to other topics?
I have yet for you to answer what grounds you have to personally attack me. I'm still waiting. You don't want me to PM you, then enlighten me so I can move on. You want to continue with the personal attacks, then lets bring a moderator into this and get it sorted out. There is obviously a level of distain that started with me sharing my opinion that AC does not have the right to seize property illegally. I also feel that way about police, sheriff, or state/federal governments, any property for any reason. If I have a cop, sheriff, or AC officer walk onto my property, go through my things, or take anything that belongs to me with no warrant, no reason, or no complaint.. yeah, I am entitled to disagree with that. Not because I have anything to hide, because I sure as heck don't .. but because they are breaking the law that is suppose to protect me. I know I'm not alone with that opinion, but whatever. You've countered my opinion, and I suggested "lets move on."
And then Miborn jumps in... and asks "why there might be a need to runaway from AC," and "that bay looks ribby." Obviously you all haven't raised a youngster, eh? Fats rolls on the topline, ribs barely poking out right before they hit a major growth spirt. Her rump was sitting a good inch higher than her withers at that point too, jokingly referred to 'teeter tottering.' Very common, actually, and I can refer you to several professionals that will back that up. Need me to find some links for ya? If you all want the whole story, feel free to let me know... but I don't see why I need to explain my situation to you all in order to avoid personal attacks. And obviously making any sort of explanation is worthless to righteous people that can see past their own nose. So I don't care to waste my time defending my property - now I am just interested in answers from you.
So whats it going to be, Driller? Going to enlighten me yet as to why you feel the need to make personal attacks?
Going to answer why you feel justified in making judgements about me without knowing me or my personal situation?
Or, how bout we go back to the "inform your local authorities" comment... since that is the best example you've given me that just proves my point?
Simple, all the information I have about you came from you. Hence, if it is wrong, that to is on you. I could not have, nor did I make a personal attack without your help. Do not put personal information out there if you do not want people to equate it to your opinions.
I knew you moved your horses because of AC problems because of YOUR post.
Yours and everyone elses it seems... Yes, AC is corrupt and screwed up. There was a severe neglect case out of Eaton Co not too long ago that went on ignored and many of the Clydes starved to death. Yet, last year, Eaton Co AC targeted my horses because they were bent on seizing them. The horses were located on over 10 acres of knee deep pasture, were up to weight and in great shape, but they attempted to cite me for neglect because I did not have hay on premise. Oh yeah, this was middle of July and the fight went on through the first week of November.. and by then, I was smart enough to move my horses out of county to end the harassment. I filed complaints and grievences with the sheriff and prosecuting attorney, and NO ONE would help me. And I have evidence proving my horses were well cared for at that time.
It seems like more and more agencies are targetting specific owners, harrassing the heck out of them, yet completely ignoring the animals that really need help. There is no money to be made in those cases, but there is money in the cases that animals are cared for and trained, and in my case, high dollar stock horses and one very expensive and well bred Arab.
If I honor a response... then please explain what this has to do with attacking my herd management -- and then explain what this has to do with violation of civil liberties.
I was smart enough to move my horses out of county to end the harassment
Twisting words. Claiming I was "proud" of it is pretty bould since I was paying a mortgage AND horse boarding after that... when I could have saved myself the boarding expenses. I took my horse out of the county after the county would not rein in their AC officer. This was only after I attempted to resolve my problems through the correct channels to no avail. This started in July and I ended it by Nov 1. It started in June before the horses were on the property. The neighboring builder was very upset that I had horses next to his high dollar rental houses and "promised" me I would have problems. Oh yeah... did I mention this didn't start with AC - this started long before AC with a couple neighbors involved in the ol' boy system of making someone's life miserable. I purchased first, another neighbor purchased second, builder purchased third. Builder was buddy's with the seller who lived across the road. Seller couldn't deny the sale of the property to us, but attempted to bribe us at closing to sign a contract that stated he has control over the building decisions of our property. It was a pretty screwed up situation, but we were niave and starry eyed.
Apr - our pickup was vandalized when we left it there overnight. Filed police report and insurance claim
Jun - moved horses in to save on board and utilize the summer pasture.
3rd week of July - first contact with AC for an anonymous tip of neglect, no water on premise. AC wrote "no grounds" for citing, as there was a full water tank, and I still have the sheet stating "no grounds."
4th week of July (conveniently after an dispute with the builder) - AC out on an anonymous tip that horse were neglected, no hay. AC confronted on this, I stated she obviously didn't see the 10+ acres of pasture.
Aug - AC called me saying the had an anonymous tip the horses were loose. I was only a matter of miles away from the property, I immediately drove there. Arrived to find no animals were loose, but fence gate somehow opened and left lying on the ground. I have pics of footprints left by the "anonymous" caller.
Aug - AC decides she doesn't "approve" of my 5-6 strand electric fence. She goes as far as having herself appointed "fence viewer" by township so that she could "disapprove" of said fence despite the "fence viewer, by township definition, was someone to inspect the cemetary's rotting fence line and it was a conflict of interest. AC then takes it upon herself to make weekly visits to my property with no complaints called in, no grounds to be there, and no warrant to be on the property. AC also interviews all neighbors to 'discuss' my feeding schedule and habits; never inquired with me. Meanwhile, neighbor sending his children over without permission to 'play' with the horses nearly every day.
Sept - AC officer accesses my property illegally through a neighboring property to take pics of my animals, fencing, and pasture. I catch her and confront her, and she blurts out she WILL seize the horses one way or another. All horses were pulled to front pasture at this time.
3rd week Sept - got round bales in, feeding times 2x per day. AC interviews neighbors again for feeding habits, schedule, etc. Keeping a keen eye on my hay supply, and to her disappointment, it never runs out.
Oct- continue as usual, meanwhile neighbors becoming more of a problem. Kids won't stay off the property, finding tire and foot prints that don't belong there, and all 'no trespassing' signs are illegally taken down. I asked AC on what grounds she had to be there, and she said "probable cause" despite the animals being up to weight, having food and water, having no complaints being made on us, and fencing being within MI standards of approved livestock fencing.
Nov 1 - moved them for their safety, more convenience for feeding and care taking, and to end this overdrawn problem situation. Oh yeah, and hunting season was upon us and there was no reason to risk their safety with drunken hunters.
Am I not entitled to keep them at a more convenient location?
Am I not entitled to keep them safe?
Am I not entitled to care and house my animals in peace?
Obviously, she had enough time to come up with a reason to take the animals and never could. She never even issued me a citation. So what does that say about me and my horses?
Oh, and during all this time... my car windshield was smashed in, my first truck gas tank punctured, 2nd truck totally disable from cut belts to screw driver in the transfer case. This was an issue to get us to sell and leave.. it had nothing to do with the animals aside from them being the big ticket items and the gateway to cause us problems. If you don't have horses, then you have no need for 10 acres.. There are several police reports to back this information up, and there are also harrassment reports with the sheriff's department. Oh, and AC was absolutely p'd that I filed a complaint on her; she came to my property the next day with a deputy escort to relay this information to me. The deputy advised me not to make any statements to her (despite trespassing on my property at that moment) as I would then be arrested for contempt. Her excuse at that time, aside from voicing her disapproval, was the "check if the fence was hot." And no, there was not complaint or evidence of horses being at large that day.. I'm sure I would have seen them if they had been as I was out from morning til dark working on my barn. There were several other other issues, situations, and things said during all this time, but I covered the main items. And again... If I was so far in the wrong and violation... why do I still happily own the same animals that I've had for several years running?
Now please refer to my original statement......
Last edited by bubbagirl; 08-16-2007 at 09:44 PM..
Driller where the heck are you from? "all my horses gain weight in the winter" Well hey you know a fat horse is JUST AS BAD as a skinny horse??? My horses always look a tad off coming off winter, but I do not keep them stalled or anything thing. They have a lean to and thats it. Have hay in front of them 24/7, fresh water and grain. My horse also does not totally shed out until we hit april/may. Yes I worm him, get his teeth floated, and a lameness check when the vet comes out.
And Driller if you are so sure of your "horses" lets see some pictures... oh wait they might not be yours!
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