[mike0618]

I couldnt find any articles of republicans shutting down hydro plants and plans t build them. I admit i only took a few mins to look. But i did find a case where libs opposed one.

Environmental groups oppose proposed Glacier-area hydro projects - Whatcom Business Newsletter - bellinghamherald.com (http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/01/15/1817110/environmental-groups-oppose-proposed.html - broken link)

[tjay]

Originally Posted by darstar

It was not the Liberals that shut down all the hydro projects, as well as old ones you could not start back up without a permit. ( no permits were issued). The Lobby for big power was behind all that.
The day will come when we will restart Ethanol plants with switch grass, and corn again when commodity prices fall. Its aLL about big money and it has not been the Dems. who let these enterprizes grow to the " too big to fail" state.

that's who runs the show.....government works for them. and we support them when we by corn, soy and sugar 'products'. which is what most america eats and gets sick from. then we start taking their drugs....we pay our bills with their credit cards, we continually support what we hate.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by mike0618

I couldnt find any articles of republicans shutting down hydro plants and plans t build them. I admit i only took a few mins to look. But i did find a case where libs opposed one.

Environmental groups oppose proposed Glacier-area hydro projects - Whatcom Business Newsletter - bellinghamherald.com (http://www.bellinghamherald.com/2011/01/15/1817110/environmental-groups-oppose-proposed.html - broken link)

It happened all over the Country , . A good example was in the South where most of the woolen mills were sold a bill of goods by the Big Power Company. In the agreement was the shutting down of the cheap power that came from hydro ( and towns as well) , in exchange for " cheap" electric provided by the Power Company.
I know , I had a friend who fought this battle for many years, all the way to the S. Court.All he wanted to do was restart the hydro plants and sell the power back to the grid.
This is not the same as new projects you refer to, where there are envioremental issues.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

You're lucky you even have an employee pension. Most people don't get a pension -- it's strictly self-funded 401k/IRA. The price of goods doesn't have much to do with Michigan politics except for the state taxes and most states are the same way. MI is one of the better states for retirement with the housing costs as low as they are. The guy earning 500K will pay a lot more in taxes than you; he's paying a higher percentage and even if it were the same percentage -- that's a lot more in absolute dollars.

I do agree with you about employers. There is no such thing as employer loyalty or even employee loyalty now; the days are over when an employee worked for a single employer his whole life. Employers just look for the cheapest labor. Employers generally don't keep up with inflation or the true value of an employee anymore in compensation so new employees come in making as much or more than the "loyal" employees. An employee with skills can generally make more by job hopping to somewhere else. Employers then no longer train employees for fear of losing that investment to a competitor. I think you can blame this on the young MBA's of the past twenty years trying to optimize short-term profits with a very high long-term cost. Even worse is the outsourcing (moving jobs overseas) and the insourcing (illegal immigrants, H1B visas). But heck, even having a job is luck these days with the "official" 9.1% unemployment.

Here's an idea - instead of complaining about how companies treat people, why don't you start your own company and hire thousands of employees at top-dollar salaries, provide no-copay benefits, full pension plan + excellent 401(k), etc?

[Sparrow_temp]

Because I don't have a million dollars starting capital -- partly because employers and government have worked together to ensure a larger than needed labor pool exists to suppress wages. I work in IT and wages on average have went down since the year 2000. The government encourages this by bringing in a large H1B pool each year (about a half million) -- about half of this is from India and half are taking jobs from computer-related workers. And then there's all of the outsourcing of labor to third-world countries.

Suggesting people start their own businesses is silly. 90%+ of small businesses fail. There are basically two types of people starting businesses -- those that have nothing to lose and those already very wealthy trying to create more wealth. If you're in the middle, the risk/reward ratio is too extreme.

Successful businesses that are making record profits can afford to treat their employees better. How did companies afford to pay benefits and pensions before the 1980's and the 401k? The differential between the lowest and highest paid employees grew significantly since then. I really wish the IRS would create a fixed multiplier on this that if not meant would put businesses in the highest possible tax bracket. This might create a bit of equity in compensation and an actual "trickle down". As it's currently going, there will be no middle class soon -- this is not healthy for the country.

Recent economic recoveries have simply meant more wealth for stock holders -- not much of anything for workers. Jobless recoveries and salaries not even keeping up with inflation are now the norm.

Originally Posted by ram2

Here's an idea - instead of complaining about how companies treat people, why don't you start your own company and hire thousands of employees at top-dollar salaries, provide no-copay benefits, full pension plan + excellent 401(k), etc?

[darstar]

Almost all my working life I had my own business. I was one of those people that just could not work for someone else..... WE had our good years, bad years, and a few distasters. AS the years went by , it became harder to compete, and the profits were all but a fleeting memory.
I hung on as long as I could, my equipment was aging, and the works were harder to get. ( We could not afford health insurance ). It seemed in the end that we were working an up hill battle against big business, higher operating costs,and little employee loyality.
It was small business that built this country, and maybe in the future will again, after the crash we can not recover from. I do not know, and it means little now, my days are over in the fast lane. I probley could have done better working for the big Company in the end. As it was I had little left when the doors closed, no pension, little savings, and big bills , a lot owed to the Government..... I worked it all out, never let down the small guy who was strugling like me, and paid off the Feds with what was left of my savings.
Would I do it all over again , the answer is YES, those were the best years of my life, the past 40 or so, working for myself, and helping out the little guy. The times were tough, but the chalange was rewarding, if not in cash, atlest in my ability to take the road less traveled....It was a great ride, now I pay, in retirement. The future will always be dependent on the small business, for ideas, and the courage to go foward with them, it was the price we paid , for independence. Long live the small business man/women, I suport them when ever I can and so should everyone else, they are ( or were) the back bone of our world.

[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by darstar

Almost all my working life I had my own business. I was one of those people that just could not work for someone else..... WE had our good years, bad years, and a few distasters. AS the years went by , it became harder to compete, and the profits were all but a fleeting memory.
I hung on as long as I could, my equipment was aging, and the works were harder to get. ( We could not afford health insurance ). It seemed in the end that we were working an up hill battle against big business, higher operating costs,and little employee loyality.
It was small business that built this country, and maybe in the future will again, after the crash we can not recover from. I do not know, and it means little now, my days are over in the fast lane. I probley could have done better working for the big Company in the end. As it was I had little left when the doors closed, no pension, little savings, and big bills , a lot owed to the Government..... I worked it all out, never let down the small guy who was strugling like me, and paid off the Feds with what was left of my savings.
Would I do it all over again , the answer is YES, those were the best years of my life, the past 40 or so, working for myself, and helping out the little guy. The times were tough, but the chalange was rewarding, if not in cash, atlest in my ability to take the road less traveled....It was a great ride, now I pay, in retirement. The future will always be dependent on the small business, for ideas, and the courage to go foward with them, it was the price we paid , for independence. Long live the small business man/women, I suport them when ever I can and so should everyone else, they are ( or were) the back bone of our world.

Well said Dar!

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp

Because I don't have a million dollars starting capital -- partly because employers and government have worked together to ensure a larger than needed labor pool exists to suppress wages. I work in IT and wages on average have went down since the year 2000. The government encourages this by bringing in a large H1B pool each year (about a half million) -- about half of this is from India and half are taking jobs from computer-related workers. And then there's all of the outsourcing of labor to third-world countries.

Suggesting people start their own businesses is silly. 90%+ of small businesses fail. There are basically two types of people starting businesses -- those that have nothing to lose and those already very wealthy trying to create more wealth. If you're in the middle, the risk/reward ratio is too extreme.

Successful businesses that are making record profits can afford to treat their employees better. How did companies afford to pay benefits and pensions before the 1980's and the 401k? The differential between the lowest and highest paid employees grew significantly since then. I really wish the IRS would create a fixed multiplier on this that if not meant would put businesses in the highest possible tax bracket. This might create a bit of equity in compensation and an actual "trickle down". As it's currently going, there will be no middle class soon -- this is not healthy for the country.

Recent economic recoveries have simply meant more wealth for stock holders -- not much of anything for workers. Jobless recoveries and salaries not even keeping up with inflation are now the norm.

Life is a risk with no guarantees. I guess you can become a politician and vote yourself a pay raise and the best health care benefits in the country.

[Trail twister]

A rich puke who has no idea how people have to grub and scratch to make a living with wages of $75,000 a year and less. has no clue what it really cost to buy a home car/truck and pay the insurances and taxes on them. Not a glimmer of how much of a persons wages goes just to buy food and gasoline to JUST go to work. Probably thinks Michigans minium wage is way to high also and should be reduced to bring in new work to the state.
Every one gets to bear the burden though!!! exceptthe rich

[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by Trail twister

A rich puke who has no idea how people have to grub and scratch to make a living with wages of $75,000 a year and less. has no clue what it really cost to buy a home car/truck and pay the insurances and taxes on them. Not a glimmer of how much of a persons wages goes just to buy food and gasoline to JUST go to work. Probably thinks Michigans minium wage is way to high also and should be reduced to bring in new work to the state.
Every one gets to bear the burden though!!! exceptthe rich

$Grub and scratch on $75,000 a year...in Michigan??? WTH???