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I would also say Flint is pretty much hopeless. Any city that is rated worse than Detroit for livability has some serious problems. It's really a shame too because like Detroit, there are some beautiful neighborhoods with gorgeous houses that have just gone to crap. I believe the only hope for Flint and Detroit is to offer corporations and investors massive tax incentives to move there, and then build other infrastructure (restaurants, bars, stores, etc.) around those businesses.
Flint's problems stem from it's population - it is essentially a whole city of uneducated and unskilled people who moved there decades ago looking for an "easy way out" - to work at overpaid factory jobs that required no education and no skill.
Flint's population increased between the 1910s and the 1960s. People weren't looking for an "easy way out". College was not the norm at that time, and they were simply looking for a better life. Besides, factory life isn't exactly easy.
As for the percentage of people who have attended college being significantly lower than other places, it is because college grads have to leave Flint, and most of the time, Michigan, to find jobs.
Unions are what killed the auto industry, and in turn, killed Flint/Detroit/Southeast Michigan. However, I won't delve into that.
Flint needs higher level jobs. Without them, all college grads will continue to flee. While I only lived in the city until I was 5, I did live my entire life in Genesee County until 2007, when I gave up finding a job in my field and relocated. This is the norm- I have friends in about 20 states who are all originally from Genesee County.
And Lansing isn't even close to being a beacon of "look at how to do a city right", but it's at least a nice city with a growing technology sector (IBM is investing heavily in the Lansing area and bringing tons of jobs with it [of course most of these jobs require a degree], as are a few other companies) and a nice downtown that people actually enjoy going to. At the very least, it's a model for places like Flint to strive for.
Downtown Flint and downtown Lansing are not very different. While Flint has the more distressed neighborhoods and higher crime, the downtowns of both cities are fairly similar. I had the opportunity to visit both downtowns recently, on a weekday during business hours. Both downtowns were dead. Downtown Lansing has the added misfortune of having been stripped of most of its historic buildings, probably during some unfortunate "urban renewal" period in its history. Architecturally, the cities are extremely similar, although Flint's historic district adjacent to downtown, Carriage Town, seemed to have more architectural gems than Old Town in Lansing.
As for the percentage of people who have attended college being significantly lower than other places, it is because college grads have to leave Flint, and most of the time, Michigan, to find jobs.
That wasn't really the point though.
The main point was the 25% of people aged 25 or older who don't even have a full highschool education - the low amount of college grads just makes it worse though. And because of this, I think it is driving away potential investors in the city.
I mean, what kind of company is going to want to invest in a city where a large part of the workforce is uneducated and unskilled?
If you have a company where most positions require AT LEAST a high school education (which, let's be honest - it's not that steep of a requirement and is pretty common these days), then why would you set up shop in Flint where 1/4 of the population is automatically unqualified to work for you?
Someone said earlier in the thread that we need to find a way to bring back high paying manufacturing jobs. No! That's not the answer. That's the problem. There is no such thing as "high paying manufacturing jobs" in the modern economy. Manufacturing jobs do not require any education or skills - they can be done by literally anyone. So why would a company pay a high wage for a position like that? It doesn't make sense - they wouldn't (and they don't). This is why all those jobs are going overseas because the American workforce is unwilling to do those jobs for the market value. Factory workers are not even worth $15/hour let alone the $50/hour or whatever ridiculous rate they used to be paid! Since Americans aren't willing to work for the $5/hour that these jobs are actually worth, then the companies just stop trying to hire American workers and hire workers somewhere else where they will work for that wage. It's simple economics.
There are still jobs out there that require no education and no skill - working at gas stations, working at fast food joints, working in restaurants, etc. The pay for these jobs reflect the (lack of) requirements needed to work there. Manufacturing is no different - why should its workers be paid any differently than that other kind of stuff? They both have virtually the same requirements.
The vast majority of "real jobs" in America now are ones that cannot be done by just anyone off the street. You now have to have a certain level of education and skill if to work there. If you want to make a decent wage then you need to have some marketable skills to offer potential employers. A good number of the people in Flint do not possess these marketable skills - and that is the main problem with the city.
"On a weekday during business hours" - lol that's when everyone is inside working. How many people do you expect to see out at that time?
Stop by downtown Lansing on a Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night and see how different it looks.
Downtowns can't survive on just being the place where "everyone goes to the bar or a concert at night." Grand Rapids too is struggling with that, keeping a vibrant retail scene downtown that keeps it busy throughout the day (and not just food court type eateries for the lunchtime crowd). The big key is getting more people to live downtown, and providing amenities downtown that you can't find out in the suburban areas of Lansing and Flint (and GR).
As far as the OP's question, Flint has a really big uphill battle. I believe like Detroit it's lost about 1/2 its population from its peak. It basically needs to win the economic development equivalent of the lottery. Maybe start mining and drilling in hopes of finding a huge pocket of natural gas or something under the city.
The main point was the 25% of people aged 25 or older who don't even have a full highschool education - the low amount of college grads just makes it worse though. And because of this, I think it is driving away potential investors in the city.
I mean, what kind of company is going to want to invest in a city where a large part of the workforce is uneducated and unskilled?
If you have a company where most positions require AT LEAST a high school education (which, let's be honest - it's not that steep of a requirement and is pretty common these days), then why would you set up shop in Flint where 1/4 of the population is automatically unqualified to work for you?
Someone said earlier in the thread that we need to find a way to bring back high paying manufacturing jobs. No! That's not the answer. That's the problem. There is no such thing as "high paying manufacturing jobs" in the modern economy. Manufacturing jobs do not require any education or skills - they can be done by literally anyone. So why would a company pay a high wage for a position like that? It doesn't make sense - they wouldn't (and they don't). This is why all those jobs are going overseas because the American workforce is unwilling to do those jobs for the market value. Factory workers are not even worth $15/hour let alone the $50/hour or whatever ridiculous rate they used to be paid! Since Americans aren't willing to work for the $5/hour that these jobs are actually worth, then the companies just stop trying to hire American workers and hire workers somewhere else where they will work for that wage. It's simple economics.
There are still jobs out there that require no education and no skill - working at gas stations, working at fast food joints, working in restaurants, etc. The pay for these jobs reflect the (lack of) requirements needed to work there. Manufacturing is no different - why should its workers be paid any differently than that other kind of stuff? They both have virtually the same requirements.
The vast majority of "real jobs" in America now are ones that cannot be done by just anyone off the street. You now have to have a certain level of education and skill if to work there. If you want to make a decent wage then you need to have some marketable skills to offer potential employers. A good number of the people in Flint do not possess these marketable skills - and that is the main problem with the city.
Are you kidding? ? OBVIOUSLY you have never nor do u know anyone who has worked in a factory. You tell the Guy humping steel all day or working a production line they don't deserve 15$/HR. It's a physically difficult job and not everyone is cut for it. How about my female friend who became a single mom at 30 something with only a high school diploma, that she should get $5/HR for working the batteries at the mill. Are you going out there when its -15 and sleeting 100 feet in the air? BUT someone with 4 years of college deserves 25 for sitting at a desk browsing the internet, gossiping with their office mates and pushing some buttons on a computer now and then, they do? I have been forced to switch careers from nursing and I CANT even get a $12/HR job as a CSR a job.that requires a HS DIPLOMA. With my education and working w/ people for 18 years am well qualified for, because im competing with kids with 4 yr business degrees? We need jobs in THIS country for all levels and a LIVABLE WAGE. I think its insulting. And those people over seas work for pennies because they have to. Their country is run by oppressive Communists. Yeah for Australia who raised the minimum wage recently to USD equivalent of $15.30. We need to rebuild the infrastructure of this great country, bring manufacturing back home. In the 70's you get graduate high school go down to the local plant and earn enough to support your family. The American dream. The local economy flourished and it was an economical ecosystem. We need to bring it back. ITS a crime that just because I'm 45 and I can't do nursing anymore I CANT get a job to support my family ANYWHERE and will be homeless by the end of the month. I would take min wage, entry level, ANYTHING. I Think u have no clue what HARD WORK is or you would never say such a thing..That Factory workers should only be paid the $5/HR they are worth is crap. I worked I'm a factory for a while and it was harder than any nursing position I ever held. Period. And some of those jobs are dangerous u have no idea. My husband is a welder he works his ass off harder than u can imagine. He is worth twice the $16/HR he makes.
Last edited by lmichelle1967; 10-03-2012 at 08:48 PM..
"On a weekday during business hours" - lol that's when everyone is inside working. How many people do you expect to see out at that time?
Stop by downtown Lansing on a Thursday, Friday, or Saturday night and see how different it looks.
If you're on a downtown street during weekday business hours, and there is no one out and about, that does not bode well for the vibrance of the city. A city's vibrance can be measured, in my opinion, based on the number of pedestrians and general activity in its downtown. Walk around Manhattan, or even Ann Arbor, if you want to see what an ideal amount of activity looks like.
If Cleveland's motto is "at least we're not Detroit," maybe Flint and Lansing could adopt, "At least we're not Muskegon."
Oh, and I have been in downtown Lansing many times and at many times of the day. I used to work downtown.
The main point was the 25% of people aged 25 or older who don't even have a full highschool education - the low amount of college grads just makes it worse though. And because of this, I think it is driving away potential investors in the city.
I mean, what kind of company is going to want to invest in a city where a large part of the workforce is uneducated and unskilled?
If you have a company where most positions require AT LEAST a high school education (which, let's be honest - it's not that steep of a requirement and is pretty common these days), then why would you set up shop in Flint where 1/4 of the population is automatically unqualified to work for you?
Someone said earlier in the thread that we need to find a way to bring back high paying manufacturing jobs. No! That's not the answer. That's the problem. There is no such thing as "high paying manufacturing jobs" in the modern economy. Manufacturing jobs do not require any education or skills - they can be done by literally anyone. So why would a company pay a high wage for a position like that? It doesn't make sense - they wouldn't (and they don't). This is why all those jobs are going overseas because the American workforce is unwilling to do those jobs for the market value. Factory workers are not even worth $15/hour let alone the $50/hour or whatever ridiculous rate they used to be paid! Since Americans aren't willing to work for the $5/hour that these jobs are actually worth, then the companies just stop trying to hire American workers and hire workers somewhere else where they will work for that wage. It's simple economics.
There are still jobs out there that require no education and no skill - working at gas stations, working at fast food joints, working in restaurants, etc. The pay for these jobs reflect the (lack of) requirements needed to work there. Manufacturing is no different - why should its workers be paid any differently than that other kind of stuff? They both have virtually the same requirements.
The vast majority of "real jobs" in America now are ones that cannot be done by just anyone off the street. You now have to have a certain level of education and skill if to work there. If you want to make a decent wage then you need to have some marketable skills to offer potential employers. A good number of the people in Flint do not possess these marketable skills - and that is the main problem with the city.
This nation does need its manufacturing base back, it is a matter of both economic and national security. Obvioulsy everyone is not going to be as highly skilled and educated as you suggest they all should be. Even if they were there are not enough of those professional level jobs to go around. If we create a society were there is no place for the "regular joe", then the regular joe will learn to cheat the sytem, commit crime or he will organize a revolution against those he sees as his oppressors. Read up on the French revolution, I know I dont want to see the "national razor" in my street. A healthy society, and a healthy economy has a place for those of all skill levels. Im not saying people with no high school are going to make it, of course everyone needs high school. What everyone does not need is college, and there should be a way for a high school graduate to earn a fair living like they did 30 years ago.
Now as far as national security goes, we need our manufacturing base to build our tanks, planes and ships. Another history lesson here, anyone know WHY we won WW2??? Ever heard of the "arsonal of democracy"???? Without our massive manufacturing capacity it would have been really tough for us to beat Germany and Japan. Everytime the bad guys got a B-17 we built 2 more, the enemy could not do that. The result was our victory. Where has our manufacturing base gone???? Its gone to China, not excactly a friend of America. If we had a war with China today not only would our ability to produce military goods be reduced, but you would not even be able buy new underware. Yes even you undershorts are from China.
How do we fix this??? I say go back to our old tarrif system. Why should we let greedy corporate types offshore thier production and undermine this nations stability and saftey. If you dont build it here, then you can pay a big tarrif making that product expensive. Even our founding fathers used tarifs to protect our industry, we should too.
Well said...YOU should be our president...u wld have my vote and every average JOE out there...UNFORTUNATELY, this country is run by men whose only goal is world domination and keeping the rich richer and seperate from the poor. Does anyone personally know a WORKING POOR PERSON? they work their assess off and struggle to eat EVERYDAY..I know guys who are ass kickers BUT they Do not have the apptitude to succeed in school. Went to votech in H.S. they deserve more than 10/HR when gas is $4 loaf of bread is 4$ and public assistance tells them they make too much to get foodstamps or assistance w medical...I think they DESERVE the assistance more than some drug dealer sponging off the system with NO REAL JOB. How does welfare mom afford a coach handbag n designer cloths for her 4 kids when my daughter w a disabled son can't even get a foodstamps buys cloths from Walmart or thrift and has no medical and no food and has to watch how much gas they use so her husband can make it to work every day...And pays taxes????? Her furnace is leaking carbon monoxide and she can't even get assistance to get it replaced and winter is upon us...and yes she tried..and his big brothers society we live in that uses credit reports and background checks in their hiring processes to DISCRIMINATE against people needs to STOP. yes if ur a child molester u shldnt work w kids. Or if u beat up old people u shldnt work w old people but people make mistakes and we shld be allowed to redeem ourselves..not have it define you forever...because what's left...crime and drugs..ur family HAS TO EAT...America will NEVER rise up and rebel...were all a bunch of sheep. And lord forbid if we break out in WW3 were gonna get our fat cat assess kicked.
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