[mjlo]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

there is nothing at all "misleading" about what happened to the auto industry in 2008. 40% of the market went away in just a few days (leasing pretty much stopped entirely) people with 760+ credit scores were being *denied* financing. Not just for GM cars, for any car. Even Hondas and Toyotas. In the aftermath, the big three closed half their dealerships & reduced their production capacity by half. Michigan took the brunt of that loss, but many places in this country that *thought* they were immune to the auto industry's charms got their behinds handed to them as well. Here in Az, the wealthy suburb of Scottsdale lost a gaggle of dealerships (and associated jobs!), along with a healthy dose of city sales-tax revenue - to the point they were laying city workers off, for the first time ever. Every automaker in the world was instantly on the ropes & it had nothing to do with "bad decisions" or union wages.

My problem with your statements is that you're so quick to excuse the bankers from any responsibility at all & at the very same time toss the "uneducated" workers under the bus. Instead of being even a little bit mad at the people who actually did destroy the economy, you're taking a cheap shot at the victims of that financial crime. GM wasn't a "healthy" company in 2008, but absent the complete financial meltdown that occurred, they would have continued plodding along for at least another decade before hitting a wall financially & during that time, they would have paid out tens of billions of dollars in wages & benefits. That's a *good* thing. Every day that went by before they went bankrupt meant the retirement plans were better funded & the employees were one day older.

Now you're trying to replace jobs that didn't need to be replaced, but for the criminal acts of a few well-connected domestic terrorists, and you're seemingly *happy* about it because you get to gloat about "unions" and "uneducated people" who made more than you did.

Um.....no

[magellan]

Michigan unemployment on par with national rate for first time in 15 years | MLive.com

[uchi90]

Peak of the auto industry was 1979. The state has been in a death spiral ever since. I don't know any sharp kids who dream of moving back "home" after college; they're all fleeing to California, down south, Chicago or D.C. And their parents can't wait to retire and move to Florida, Arizona, maybe a small % to the Lk. Michigan coast, e.g. Traverse City.

What you have left is a higher and higher concentration of mostly mediocre students without the money or skills to move to even nearby Chicago (which is by all accounts a very easy city to move to).

Down south AC is cheap and the towns are clean. Don't have to worry about crumbling infrastructure and Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw, Detroit violent crime.

[jaynarie]

Originally Posted by uchi90

Peak of the auto industry was 1979. The state has been in a death spiral ever since. I don't know any sharp kids who dream of moving back "home" after college; they're all fleeing to California, down south, Chicago or D.C. And their parents can't wait to retire and move to Florida, Arizona, maybe a small % to the Lk. Michigan coast, e.g. Traverse City.

What you have left is a higher and higher concentration of mostly mediocre students without the money or skills to move to even nearby Chicago (which is by all accounts a very easy city to move to).

Down south AC is cheap and the towns are clean. Don't have to worry about crumbling infrastructure and Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw, Detroit violent crime.

Then you don't know the right people. I graduated with a very high GPA (college and high school) and have a high IQ as well. I moved away and came back. So have dozens of my childhood friends. And I hung out with my peers in my AP classes. Hard to argue that we are not 'sharp'.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by uchi90

Peak of the auto industry was 1979. The state has been in a death spiral ever since. I don't know any sharp kids who dream of moving back "home" after college; they're all fleeing to California, down south, Chicago or D.C. And their parents can't wait to retire and move to Florida, Arizona, maybe a small % to the Lk. Michigan coast, e.g. Traverse City.

What you have left is a higher and higher concentration of mostly mediocre students without the money or skills to move to even nearby Chicago (which is by all accounts a very easy city to move to).

Down south AC is cheap and the towns are clean. Don't have to worry about crumbling infrastructure and Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw, Detroit violent crime.

Lol yeah that's why Michigan has seen population gains for every decade except this last one and is now back to gaining population. Same with Metro Detroit. And you want to talk about Chicago? Why are they reporting that the entire state of Illinois is beginning to lose population? Chicago and Illinois government are going down fast. People are even discussing bankruptcy now. And don't get me wrong I love Chicago but don't pretend like it's all sunshine and rainbows out there right now, they are having much of the problems we were facing just a few years ago.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by uchi90

Peak of the auto industry was 1979. The state has been in a death spiral ever since. I don't know any sharp kids who dream of moving back "home" after college; they're all fleeing to California, down south, Chicago or D.C. And their parents can't wait to retire and move to Florida, Arizona, maybe a small % to the Lk. Michigan coast, e.g. Traverse City.

What you have left is a higher and higher concentration of mostly mediocre students without the money or skills to move to even nearby Chicago (which is by all accounts a very easy city to move to).

Down south AC is cheap and the towns are clean. Don't have to worry about crumbling infrastructure and Flint, Pontiac, Saginaw, Detroit violent crime.

I meet people almost every day moving back to Michigan from somewhere else, particularly from Chicago. I think it's a good idea for college grads to move away from their home state for a while.

The #1 destination for Michigan college grads used to be Chicago, closely followed by Atlanta and the Southwest cities. In the last couple of years of surveys the #1 destination for Michigan college grads was Grand Rapids/West Michigan. Sort of shocking. This is a survey done by the Michigan Colleges Alliance every year.

Here's a survey from 2011: http://www.michigancolleges.org/file...rt_6_23_11.pdf

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

Originally Posted by MS313

Lol yeah that's why Michigan has seen population gains for every decade except this last one and is now back to gaining population. Same with Metro Detroit. And you want to talk about Chicago? Why are they reporting that the entire state of Illinois is beginning to lose population? Chicago and Illinois government are going down fast. People are even discussing bankruptcy now. And don't get me wrong I love Chicago but don't pretend like it's all sunshine and rainbows out there right now, they are having much of the problems we were facing just a few years ago.

What IS going on with Chicago anyway? I know there was a shooting spree lately, I suppose that doesn't help matters much.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

What IS going on with Chicago anyway? I know there was a shooting spree lately, I suppose that doesn't help matters much.

they're having shooting sprees because they don't have enough guns.

Apparently, when only the bad guys have guns, they go wild. Whodathunk it?

[ColdAilment]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

they're having shooting sprees because they don't have enough guns.

Apparently, when only the bad guys have guns, they go wild. Whodathunk it?

Chicago lifted their ban on guns over a year ago.

[MS313]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

What IS going on with Chicago anyway? I know there was a shooting spree lately, I suppose that doesn't help matters much.

It's getting hot out. Shooting sprees happen often in Chicago during the warmer months. The gang violence there is and always has been out of control but I think they have been improving slightly. Just a few years ago they were at 500 murders a year.

they're having shooting sprees because they don't have enough guns.

Apparently, when only the bad guys have guns, they go wild. Whodathunk it?

Exactly, good try but it didn't work. All it did was open up a huge black market.

Chicago lifted their ban on guns over a year ago.

Thank God. I was so happy for Chicagoans when they lifted that gun ban. They deserve to protect themselves.