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I've got to weigh in briefly. I'm from A2, originally. I moved to Ohio when the economy fell apart in the early 1980s and I moved to Iowa four years ago when the Ohio economy started going bad. It's a lot better living in Des Moines than SE Michigan. This is not the rust belt and the lack of decay in the neighborhoods attests to that. Further, there are four distinct seasons and that lovely lingering twilight that us outdoor people love in the summers. If you're thinking of moving back to Michigan with its high taxes and Lansing stupidity, take a look at Des Moines, first. Granted, we don't have the UP and all the great fishing, but MN is up the road and walleye fishing there is just as good.
I do not like De Moines too much when compared to Michigan. I would much rather live here in Michigan than in Iowa. De Moines may be a nice city, but what is there within an hour of De Moines? Farms and cow country.
Your post came at a perfect time!! I have wanted to experience living in another state for years but never actually did it. Im currently laid off and was thinking now might be a good time to finally do it. However in my research and in talking to a lot of people its not worth it. Yes cost of living might be cheaper but yes so is salary, better weather in Phoenix sounds inticing but as I've heard from several people its intense and you get sick of it. Thank you for posting this thread. I think it will help a lot of people. I hope you have a smooth transition back to the Mitten State!
Your post came at a perfect time!! I have wanted to experience living in another state for years but never actually did it. Im currently laid off and was thinking now might be a good time to finally do it. However in my research and in talking to a lot of people its not worth it. Yes cost of living might be cheaper but yes so is salary, better weather in Phoenix sounds inticing but as I've heard from several people its intense and you get sick of it. Thank you for posting this thread. I think it will help a lot of people. I hope you have a smooth transition back to the Mitten State!
The weather is not any better down south. Houston was terrible, it was either hot or super hot. I honestly missed snow while in Texas also. I do generally enjoy the cold also, but even when saying that, my opinion may change come March.
As for Phoenix, they say its a "dry" heat, but IMO, hot is still hot.
Welcome back and good luck to you when you get back.
As for Des Moines, Iowa? it's not even comparable to SE MI. While SE MI may have much more rougher areas, it also has much more nicer areas and much more everything else. Des Moines is a mid sized city more comparable to Grand Rapids like another poster said.
Your post came at a perfect time!! I have wanted to experience living in another state for years but never actually did it. Im currently laid off and was thinking now might be a good time to finally do it. However in my research and in talking to a lot of people its not worth it. Yes cost of living might be cheaper but yes so is salary, better weather in Phoenix sounds inticing but as I've heard from several people its intense and you get sick of it. Thank you for posting this thread. I think it will help a lot of people. I hope you have a smooth transition back to the Mitten State!
We moved to the Phoenix area several years ago, partly to get away from the winters here in Michigan. Before the move, I was one of those people who complained from January through March about the weather and how life is too short to live somewhere with cold, partially gloomy winters with bare trees, etc., etc.. I can say that the best thing to come out of that brief relocation is that it cured me for once and for all of that attitude.
I moved to Phoenix with such a naive attitude about the Sunbelt. As a lifelong resident of the Upper Midwest I am embarrassed to say that it never occurred to me that there could be a down side to living somewhere that was sunny and generally warm to hot year round. The things I learned by living in Phoenix and have since picked up on in other Sunbelt cities that I've visited:
1.) Sunny every single day is actually not great. It is boring. Getting up at six am to find the laser beam sun already beating down for the 60th day in a row and knowing that it will not stop until 9 pm is not delightful, it gets grueling. It gets to the point where you actually dream of clouds and rain, and on the rare occasion when they arrive you find yourself outside taking pictures of them.
2.) I missed Michigan's flora more than I ever thought possible. There are areas in the Sunbelt where it isn't a vast, brown desert like Phoenix, it's true, but the flora somewhere like Florida is not remotely the same as what we have here and what has become a part of me over the years. The things we take for granted here-huge, leafy maple trees, green cornfields under a blue sky with puffy clouds in August, a golden wheat field with a backdrop of leaves starting to turn color in late September, a dense deciduous forest...I never knew how much I love those things until I left them behind. Heck, even the lush weed growth in the ditches along I-94 on the way home from the airport when we got back were a sight for sore eyes, and we weren't gone all that long.
3.) The traffic congestion and long lines that you encounter everywhere from the post office to Chili's when you live in an area where the supply of everything cannot keep up with the demand are truly depressing. It made me realize very quickly how much time I didn't waste sitting in traffic or standing in line before I moved. For me, that is a HUGE quality of life issue.
4.)Probably most important yet the least tangible: I had never lived somewhere where most of the people were from somewhere else, which is common in most of the popular areas of the Sunbelt. There is something about being surrounded by people who have shared a lifetime of common experiences with you. Weather, special events, local sports teams, vacation spots in the general region...it is just very comforting to be around people who "get" you and where you are coming from and know the things you are referring to immediately when you talk about them. A couple of people in Phoenix told me that it can be such a lonely place because the population is so transient and people just don't invest in relationships with their neighbors. I could definitely see that. People move there for often very superficial reasons and they don't have a lot of knowledge of the area nor care to. They move to sit in the sun under a palm tree and not have to shovel snow. To me, life is about so much more than those kinds of things. I'm not faulting someone for doing that, it just doesn't feel right for me. I learned the hard way after moving away from all of our family and friends that sitting by the pool under a palm tree doesn't mean jack when your family is back home, on a gloomy day in late March, having a birthday party or laughing and freezing their way through the first baseball game of the season. It's people, ultimately, that make life worth living, not weather or surroundings.
Not to sound preachy, just adding my $.02 to this thread. I can honestly say that that move taught me a LOT about life and about myself. I am in love with Michigan now and I don't expect the affair to end anytime soon.
Last edited by canudigit; 06-30-2017 at 06:50 AM..
One thing that I have learned is that to really appreciate something......you need CONTRAST. When you have 4 seasons.....contrast is at its peak. When you live in climates with two seasons or less....you would quickly grow tired of it. Few can appreciate a 70 degree day, flowers blooming, sun shinning, like people who have just spent the last 3 months in cold and snow.
canudigit's post is very simlar to our experiences in California.
"1.) Sunny every single day is actually not great. It is boring. Getting up at six am to find the laser beam sun already beating down for the 60th day in a row and knowing that it will not stop until 9 pm is not delightful, it gets grueling. It gets to the point where you actually dream of clouds and rain, and on the rare occasion when they arrive you find yourself outside taking pictures of them. "
Coastal California does not get the intense sun/heat very often so the weather is more near perfect every day. Honestly I loved it. Gong to the beach on Christmas day, Hiking the foothills in shorts in November. However my wife felt exactly as posted above. She asked peple to send her pictures of a blue sky with puffy clouds. Every single day, Haze and 70s until about 11, then haze burns off and it is 80s bright and sunny, sometimes too sunny. California is also a dry heat, but temperatures are low enough that the dry makes a difference. With an ocean breeze, more days than not are perfect. Still boring. Plus year round dry is murder on your skin. The Santa ANa winds can be miserable. No puffy clouds, no thunderstorms, and when it finally does rain, it is a deluge that causes mudslides and flooding. Other times you have wildfires and even if you are not on the outskirts and in danger, you still have the sky raining ash. We had fires, flooding, earthquakes, riots, Santa Ana winds gusting up to 70 plus mph. Still it was pretty boring. Ho Hum another perfect day. No reason to go outside, tomorrow will be perfect too.
"2.) I missed Michigan's flora more than I ever thought possible. There are areas in the Sunbelt where it isn't a vast, brown desert like Phoenix, it's true, but the flora somewhere like Florida is not remotely the same as what we have here and what has become a part of me over the years. The things we take for granted here-huge, leafy maple trees, green cornfields under a blue sky with puffy clouds in August, a golden wheat field with a backdrop of leaves starting to turn color in late September, a dense deciduous forest...I never knew how much I love those things until I left them behind. Heck, even the lush weed growth in the ditches along I-94 on the way home from the airport when we got back were a sight for sore eyes, and we weren't gone all that long."
We always gasped when we visited in the spring or summer and were landing in an airplane. You forget how richly emerald green it is here. Even in the "green" areas or times of year, the foliage out there is grey green and it is sparse. Mostly colors are pavement/concrete, glass, red tile, or brown.
"3.) The traffic congestion and long lines that you encounter everywhere from the post office to Chili's when you live in an area where the supply of everything cannot keep up with the demand are truly depressing. It made me realize very quickly how much time I didn't waste sitting in traffic or standing in line before I moved. For me, that is a HUGE quality of life issue."
Life in Orange County was one big wait in line. Even driving was just waiting in line, then you would wait in line for parking, then wait in line to get a table, or wait in line to walk down an aisle at the store. I am impatient by nature and the constant waiting in line for every aspect of life was really gnawing at me. Since we moved, I am able to avoid any form of waiting in line. I drive to work early or late as often as possible. Heck I even eat lunch late to avoid waiting in line when the chef comes to our office or at a restaurant. The thing is, here it is possible. There, there was no avoiding it. Life was lines. There were even lines you have to camp out overnight like to get your kids into e better schools.
"4.)Probably most important yet the least tangible: I had never lived somewhere where most of the people were from somewhere else, which is common in most of the popular areas of the Sunbelt. There is something about being surrounded by people who have shared a lifetime of common experiences with you. Weather, special events, local sports teams, vacation spots in the general region...it is just very comforting to be around people who "get" you and where you are coming from and know the things you are referring to immediately when you talk about them. A couple of people in Phoenix told me that it can be such a lonely place because the population is so transient and people just don't invest in relationships with their neighbors. I could definitely see that. People move there for often very superficial reasons and they don't have a lot of knowledge of the area nor care to. They move to sit in the sun under a palm tree and not have to shovel snow. To me, life is about so much more than those kinds of things. I'm not faulting someone for doing that, it just doesn't feel right for me. I learned the hard way after moving away from all of our family and friends that sitting by the pool under a palm tree doesn't mean jack when your family is back home, on a gloomy day in late March, having a birthday party or laughing and freezing their way through the first baseball game of the season. It's people, ultimately, that make life worth living, not weather or surroundings."
This took forever for us to grasp. You just feel more at home here. Out west all the transient people tend to be more openly friendly, but it is often all about what you can offer them socially or professionally. Soon they move on to someone who offers more. This is not everyone, but it tends to be a majority. We also found out there it is very much about what you wear, what you drive and how skinny you are. Here the value seems to be more how hard you work, especially at community service things. The schools there were a fashion contest but fashions copying hookers and gang bangers. When we came here, we were pleasantly surprised to find everyone at the schools in jeans and t-shirts or polos. We were amazed the way people bent over backwards to make us feel welcome and when we got into trouble, to help us out. It is harder to break into social circles here because most people have been friends for decades and they do not need any more or new friends. They are polite and will do almost anything to help you out, but it does take a while to break in socially.
Family was a huge issue. When we returned, our kids suddenly had support/cheering at every performance, game, competition, etc. Nothing makes a kid feel like they are valuable like a team of people seeing or clapping for them, or just being there. With 5 kids, and both of us working we could only attend a few things for our kids. When we came back, they always had someone there - for everything.
Last night I spent an hour listening to a young woman from our Kiwanis club tell me about the history of our community. Not the big events, but the characters who made daily life interesting. You do not get that in the transient locations.
Thanks for the comments. I have taught chemistry while at Houston ISD, but I am certified to teach any other science.
Coming to Michigan to teach? Secure a job before moving and expect a pay reduction..Not sure what Houston is paying,but a first year teacher here is starting at or below $40K in most districts (those few public schools that are hiring) or charter schools are usually even lower. Charter schools generally do not have steps, or raises nor do they pay for MA degrees.
Many districts do not give credit for previous experience.
One thing that I have learned is that to really appreciate something......you need CONTRAST. When you have 4 seasons.....contrast is at its peak. When you live in climates with two seasons or less....you would quickly grow tired of it. Few can appreciate a 70 degree day, flowers blooming, sun shinning, like people who have just spent the last 3 months in cold and snow.
This is something that it took me too long to realize. The more you appreciate something the more it adds to your quality of life. There is something very beautiful and child-like (not in a bad way) about how one feels on that first 70 degree day with the sun warm on your arms, the new grass that gorgeous, bright spring green after being yellow/brown all winter, and the pear trees bursting with blooms. But you don't really appreciate it unless it goes away for a while. That's what I was missing in Arizona where every day is identical to the next for months on end.
canudigit's post is very simlar to our experiences in California.
"1.) Sunny every single day is actually not great. It is boring. Getting up at six am to find the laser beam sun already beating down for the 60th day in a row and knowing that it will not stop until 9 pm is not delightful, it gets grueling. It gets to the point where you actually dream of clouds and rain, and on the rare occasion when they arrive you find yourself outside taking pictures of them. "
Coastal California does not get the intense sun/heat very often so the weather is more near perfect every day. Honestly I loved it. Gong to the beach on Christmas day, Hiking the foothills in shorts in November. However my wife felt exactly as posted above. She asked peple to send her pictures of a blue sky with puffy clouds. Every single day, Haze and 70s until about 11, then haze burns off and it is 80s bright and sunny, sometimes too sunny. California is also a dry heat, but temperatures are low enough that the dry makes a difference. With an ocean breeze, more days than not are perfect. Still boring. Plus year round dry is murder on your skin. The Santa ANa winds can be miserable. No puffy clouds, no thunderstorms, and when it finally does rain, it is a deluge that causes mudslides and flooding. Other times you have wildfires and even if you are not on the outskirts and in danger, you still have the sky raining ash. We had fires, flooding, earthquakes, riots, Santa Ana winds gusting up to 70 plus mph. Still it was pretty boring. Ho Hum another perfect day. No reason to go outside, tomorrow will be perfect too.
"2.) I missed Michigan's flora more than I ever thought possible. There are areas in the Sunbelt where it isn't a vast, brown desert like Phoenix, it's true, but the flora somewhere like Florida is not remotely the same as what we have here and what has become a part of me over the years. The things we take for granted here-huge, leafy maple trees, green cornfields under a blue sky with puffy clouds in August, a golden wheat field with a backdrop of leaves starting to turn color in late September, a dense deciduous forest...I never knew how much I love those things until I left them behind. Heck, even the lush weed growth in the ditches along I-94 on the way home from the airport when we got back were a sight for sore eyes, and we weren't gone all that long."
We always gasped when we visited in the spring or summer and were landing in an airplane. You forget how richly emerald green it is here. Even in the "green" areas or times of year, the foliage out there is grey green and it is sparse. Mostly colors are pavement/concrete, glass, red tile, or brown.
"3.) The traffic congestion and long lines that you encounter everywhere from the post office to Chili's when you live in an area where the supply of everything cannot keep up with the demand are truly depressing. It made me realize very quickly how much time I didn't waste sitting in traffic or standing in line before I moved. For me, that is a HUGE quality of life issue."
Life in Orange County was one big wait in line. Even driving was just waiting in line, then you would wait in line for parking, then wait in line to get a table, or wait in line to walk down an aisle at the store. I am impatient by nature and the constant waiting in line for every aspect of life was really gnawing at me. Since we moved, I am able to avoid any form of waiting in line. I drive to work early or late as often as possible. Heck I even eat lunch late to avoid waiting in line when the chef comes to our office or at a restaurant. The thing is, here it is possible. There, there was no avoiding it. Life was lines. There were even lines you have to camp out overnight like to get your kids into e better schools.
"4.)Probably most important yet the least tangible: I had never lived somewhere where most of the people were from somewhere else, which is common in most of the popular areas of the Sunbelt. There is something about being surrounded by people who have shared a lifetime of common experiences with you. Weather, special events, local sports teams, vacation spots in the general region...it is just very comforting to be around people who "get" you and where you are coming from and know the things you are referring to immediately when you talk about them. A couple of people in Phoenix told me that it can be such a lonely place because the population is so transient and people just don't invest in relationships with their neighbors. I could definitely see that. People move there for often very superficial reasons and they don't have a lot of knowledge of the area nor care to. They move to sit in the sun under a palm tree and not have to shovel snow. To me, life is about so much more than those kinds of things. I'm not faulting someone for doing that, it just doesn't feel right for me. I learned the hard way after moving away from all of our family and friends that sitting by the pool under a palm tree doesn't mean jack when your family is back home, on a gloomy day in late March, having a birthday party or laughing and freezing their way through the first baseball game of the season. It's people, ultimately, that make life worth living, not weather or surroundings."
This took forever for us to grasp. You just feel more at home here. Out west all the transient people tend to be more openly friendly, but it is often all about what you can offer them socially or professionally. Soon they move on to someone who offers more. This is not everyone, but it tends to be a majority. We also found out there it is very much about what you wear, what you drive and how skinny you are. Here the value seems to be more how hard you work, especially at community service things. The schools there were a fashion contest but fashions copying hookers and gang bangers. When we came here, we were pleasantly surprised to find everyone at the schools in jeans and t-shirts or polos. We were amazed the way people bent over backwards to make us feel welcome and when we got into trouble, to help us out. It is harder to break into social circles here because most people have been friends for decades and they do not need any more or new friends. They are polite and will do almost anything to help you out, but it does take a while to break in socially.
Family was a huge issue. When we returned, our kids suddenly had support/cheering at every performance, game, competition, etc. Nothing makes a kid feel like they are valuable like a team of people seeing or clapping for them, or just being there. With 5 kids, and both of us working we could only attend a few things for our kids. When we came back, they always had someone there - for everything.
Last night I spent an hour listening to a young woman from our Kiwanis club tell me about the history of our community. Not the big events, but the characters who made daily life interesting. You do not get that in the transient locations.
Sounds like we had very similar experiences, except that you stuck it out much longer than we did. I am also an inpatient person by nature (very Type A) and standing in line for half an hour at the post office or taking more than an hour to drive ten miles just doesn't work for me. I'm very spoiled that way, having grown up in a small town in NW Ohio and spending most of my adult life in small towns in SE Michigan. We passed through Atlanta last month and I was thinking that there wouldn't be enough warm days or money in the world to make me endure that every single day. Thankfully, my DH feels exactly the same way and has no desire to move away again. We are both happy right where we are and this is home.
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I am also an inpatient person by nature (very Type A) and standing in line for half an hour at the post office or taking more than an hour to drive ten miles just doesn't work for me. I'm very spoiled that way, having grown up in a small town in NW Ohio and spending most of my adult life in small towns in SE Michigan. We passed through Atlanta last month and I was thinking that there wouldn't be enough warm days or money in the world to make me endure that every single day. Thankfully, my DH feels exactly the same way and has no desire to move away again. We are both happy right where we are and this is home.
