[TurboState]

Now you are arguing just to argue.. It is amazing watching people that rent try and justify that renting isn't stupid.

Renting is stupid, period, and there is no bones about that. Anyone with a shred of financial knowledge will tell you that! Even owning a 50K house would be much better than renting just for the tax benefits. Nobody says you have to run out and buy a 250K house and dump 20K in repairs in it, don't be silly.

Part of the idea of home ownership is creating space that is yours. Renting you just don't have any net worth, you have no collateral, and don't have any measurable tax shelter. All you are doing is pumping money into your landlords pocket. Oh, and I have a rental house that I rent out. I still am perplexed I can find people to rent it for $800 a month when the mortgage costs me only $300. They could just as easily go a few streets over and buy their own 50K house instead of renting. Guess people are lazy or clueless - or both. Whatever, as long as they keep sending me the 800 bones I am happy.

[AussieMale]

Home ownership & renting is about the same. But at the end of the day if you invest the money in a wise way in a mix of stocks,bonds etc you will end up with more money in your pocket by not owning a home.

The only down fall of not owning a home , is you answer to a landlord & will move house front time to time.

Over a longer period of time you are way infront if you dont own a home. As long as you keep putting in the same kind of money every few months that you would spend on owning a home ( Eg maintance, like new roof every 10 years or so, cost of new lawn mower n im sure you can work out the rest ,painting ,carpet TAXES etc ) im sure you get the pic as it all adds up.

It has been proven by independent bodies running a side by side investment of the money of non home ownership in the stockmarket & home ownership time n time again,here in Australia & in the USA that you can be in a much better off not owning. I ran accross an article stating the numbers of ownership n non ownership again in yahoo finance just this week again as the hot topic has been subprime mortgage lenders & foreclosure of properties , as its sad to read about all the people going belly up so to speak on there properties.

Best part of not owing a home is you can move around when you fancy & if you dont like your neighbours you can say bye n move on to where the sun may shine better.

So its good to have the choice of been a owner or not TurboState.

[michiganbob]

TurboState:

I can assure you I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. You made a blanket statement that I--and many others--disagree with. To let such a statement stand without challenging it not be helpful to the readers of this forum.

Did you even read that Wall Street Journal article? Some of the best financial minds in the world made a very strong case that even in the best housing markets over a long period of time that ownership may still not make the most financial sense. So to continue to make the blanket statement that renting is stupid is, well stupid. At least I can say I have looked at both sides of the argument and done the numbers and sometimes they don't add up for ownership. They just don't, sorry. Not every time, but some times. Any investment has risk and a home is an investment. That is the arguement you're making right? That this is about money?

In your mind we should all live in $50,000 homes. I can tell you that where I live you wouldn't want to be caught dead in a 50K home . . . and you might just end up that way.

But please, continue to live in your simple world. I would rather live in one where I have the brains to evaluate the situation and decide if renting or owning is the right choice for me at that time I make that decision and based on where I want to live and how long I plan to be there. That's the advice I would give anyone trying to do the same.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by TurboState

I saw a house a few streets over here in Royal Oak. Guy was having a firesale, his truck was out front for sale cheap.

He had a sign infront of his house saying "$130,000 or best, must sell today!!!".. Looking at the house, it looks like a nice 1600+sq Foot home with a 2 car garage. Sad.. That house would have been 250K 3 years ago..

I wonder if he sold his house. I can't imagine he'd sell it for $200 if that were the best offer. It's possible that he was facing foreclosure and wanted to recover any equity he'd had in it. As for the truck...he'll be happy to have offed the truck after the gas prices have surpassed $3/gallon this summer.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by michiganbob

Do we want to move out of the state? Not really, but if we don't own a home and we lose our jobs we may have to . . . and we would be able to. I think a lot of people in Michigan feel that way these days: they don't want to go, but they may have no other choice.

I'm currently on a month-to-month rent and have been for about three years, and I'm still paying what I paid for it at the start of the lease. I've thought about buying a used mobile home, but I really don't want to be tied down to anything, even that. I figure that if my middle class blue collar job vaporizes, I'm outta here. (I also have a license to work as a professional in another state, so aside from Michigan's malaise, that would be another reason to bolt.)

Consequently, I was looking at the prices of used manufactured homes in other states and they do seem to be much cheaper in Michigan, which is sad because it means that even mobile home ownership has become expensive in other states.

[southernlady5464]

Renting isn't always the best option either...especially with animals in tow. And some of us consider them as much our children and the human biped type.

As far as the housing market in MI...there is one house I know of off Hwy 23 between Ann Arbor and the MI/OH line that was started prior to our moving here in 2000...still NOT finished, it's an abandoned shell as far as I can tell. You can still see the wall studs from the highway. It's been seven years...should have put our house on the market long before we did in August. Liz

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by TurboState

Oh, and I have a rental house that I rent out. I still am perplexed I can find people to rent it for $800 a month when the mortgage costs me only $300. They could just as easily go a few streets over and buy their own 50K house instead of renting. Guess people are lazy or clueless - or both. Whatever, as long as they keep sending me the 800 bones I am happy.

Don't you also need to include the costs of property taxes, home insurance, upkeep, and all of the utilities that are normally covered by an apartment lease (trash, water, sewer)?

I'm curious--what kinds of deductions are you getting on your house? You can deduct the interest on the mortgages? If you lived in the house and it weren't business property (no deductions for business costs and depreciation of the asset value) what would you be able to deduct?

Note that low income and lower middle class renters can also obtain a credit for their rent when they do their Michigan taxes.

[southernlady5464]

Don't you also need to include the costs of property taxes, home insurance, upkeep, and all of the utilities that are normally covered by an apartment lease (trash, water, sewer)?

Still have renter's insurance if you are SMART. And who do you thinK IS paying the property taxes/trash pickup/sewer/etc...the landlord has them figured into the rent. Liz

[JenM]

Renting is stupid, period, and there is no bones about that. Anyone with a shred of financial knowledge will tell you that! Even owning a 50K house would be much better than renting just for the tax benefits. Nobody says you have to run out and buy a 250K house and dump 20K in repairs in it, don't be silly.

I've always rented and agree that it is a total waste of money. For as long as I've been renting, I'd have some serious equity by now. I applied for a mortgage for the first time ever -- was sure I'd be denied-- and was approved and am very excited!!!

Now if only I could get rid of my manufactured home quickly Anyone want it for $8,000 OBO?

[GAisGreat]

Originally Posted by michiganbob

I feel lucky to have sold my house in Eaton Rapids (about 15 miles south of Lansing) last fall. The district is now talking about closing the elementary school in the neighborhood and that will certainly hurt property values.

We're now renting a very nice house (2200 sq ft, built in 2001) just outside of Lansing that the owner couldn't sell for the past two years after he built himself another. Because of a growing glut of rental properties (I can't remember ever seeing so many "for rent" signs in East Lansing this time of year) our rent is pretty low for such a nice place. The only column in the classified section of the newspaper that seems to grow every Sunday are the "homes for rent" section because people can't sell and are trying to get some money back to cover the mortgage.

It's not that I don't like Michigan, or have anything against the Lansing area, but both my job and the one my wife has do not seem so secure anymore. Do we want to move out of the state? Not really, but if we don't own a home and we lose our jobs we may have to . . . and we would be able to. I think a lot of people in Michigan feel that way these days: they don't want to go, but they may have no other choice.

So we won't be buying another house any time soon. The prices are still falling and until the economy stabilizes, it's not worth the rest . . . especially when you can rent for $500 less a month than the mortage would be.

We're in the same boat. Moved back to MI after being away several years. Had plans to buy a house here and stay for a long time. I knew things were rough here before we moved back, but didn't believe they were THIS BAD. We're having second thoughts now if we should buy a house, or rent to be safe at least for a while.

One thing though, so much up here is way overpriced. We'll have to spend at least 100k more here to get a comparable house in a comparable area than we had in GA.
I have to believe a lot of people up here are just out of touch w/reality, in much the same way as the factory/union rats are. I've looked at several houses where people are asking 30-60k over what they paid for it 3-5yrs ago!!!
And they can't understand why it's been sitting on the market for 8months!!!