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Old 04-06-2007, 11:48 AM
 
146 posts, read 641,298 times
Reputation: 63

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Great Article from the Detroit News about how Michigan will never
clear its current economic logjam until our politicians ditch
the ridiculous notion of taxing our state to death and start
reprioritizing.
Can I get an AMEN!

We have come to the conclusion that the crisis Michigan faces is not a shortage of revenue, but an excess of idiocy. Facing a budget deficit that has passed the $1 billion mark, House Democrats Thursday offered a spending plan that would buy a MP3 player or iPod for every school child in Michigan.

Entire article below.


http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007704060333 (broken link)
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:57 AM
 
Location: San Antonio, TX - Displaced Michigander
2,068 posts, read 5,971,856 times
Reputation: 839
Sorry we cross posted!
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Old 04-09-2007, 04:33 AM
 
54 posts, read 259,496 times
Reputation: 32
Angry What's REALLY Wrong....

What is really wrong with Michigan? Not high taxes, nope. Surprised? Michigan has lowered taxes some 50 times in the last 17 years. What is really wrong with Michigan is hot potato and the lack of "getting it." Michigan is more about "Me" and less about "We." Michigan's problem is the armchair folk who think lowering taxes will bring more jobs. How's that worked for us in the last 17 years? Why the bare essentials and borderlines?

Michigan is going to win the race to the bottom if it further continues in this race to JUST lower taxes. It's not lower taxes that makes a place successful. The new economy DEMANDS public services: schools, rail transit, parks & rec, cultural activities, police, fire, and kept roads. Guess what happens to these key economic generators when taxes plummet? You can't pull yourselves out of a hole without legs.

Invest in what matters to the young creative and the knowledge class. Some of you might be surprised to learn that the knowledge based worker is holding the cards. No longer is it the employer making the demands. Employers are having hiring deficits scouring to fill vacancies. Why would an employee want to relocate to Michigan if state is driven by a set of principals other then his own? There has been a reversal in thought process among the younger educated class. They no longer choose a place to live based on work. They are doing something radical. These young professionals are first choosing where to live based on quality of life, transit, urban amenities, etc... Guess where Michigan is loosing ground in those categories? Transit, Culture, Urban Centers, Quality of Life, etc...

What really matters:
*Not laying off 1,500+ police and fire
*Light Rail Transit
*Vibrant urban centers, i.e. downtowns
*Improved infrastructure (NO MORE roads, how about improvements?)
*Simplified tax code
*Culture
*Diversity
*Parks and public spaces

If Michigan can get just a few of the above right it will stand to gain tremendously. I'm proud to say that Metro Grand Rapids is slowly getting it.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,870,356 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schaumburger View Post
What is really wrong with Michigan? Not high taxes, nope. Surprised? Michigan has lowered taxes some 50 times in the last 17 years. What is really wrong with Michigan is hot potato and the lack of "getting it." Michigan is more about "Me" and less about "We." Michigan's problem is the armchair folk who think lowering taxes will bring more jobs. How's that worked for us in the last 17 years? Why the bare essentials and borderlines?

Michigan is going to win the race to the bottom if it further continues in this race to JUST lower taxes. It's not lower taxes that makes a place successful. The new economy DEMANDS public services: schools, rail transit, parks & rec, cultural activities, police, fire, and kept roads. Guess what happens to these key economic generators when taxes plummet? You can't pull yourselves out of a hole without legs.

Invest in what matters to the young creative and the knowledge class. Some of you might be surprised to learn that the knowledge based worker is holding the cards. No longer is it the employer making the demands. Employers are having hiring deficits scouring to fill vacancies. Why would an employee want to relocate to Michigan if state is driven by a set of principals other then his own? There has been a reversal in thought process among the younger educated class. They no longer choose a place to live based on work. They are doing something radical. These young professionals are first choosing where to live based on quality of life, transit, urban amenities, etc... Guess where Michigan is loosing ground in those categories? Transit, Culture, Urban Centers, Quality of Life, etc...

What really matters:
*Not laying off 1,500+ police and fire
*Light Rail Transit
*Vibrant urban centers, i.e. downtowns
*Improved infrastructure (NO MORE roads, how about improvements?)
*Simplified tax code
*Culture
*Diversity
*Parks and public spaces

If Michigan can get just a few of the above right it will stand to gain tremendously. I'm proud to say that Metro Grand Rapids is slowly getting it.
Schaumburger,

Do I know you? Well said.
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Old 04-09-2007, 12:42 PM
 
433 posts, read 2,357,579 times
Reputation: 325
There is no money. Michigan is flat broke. Real estate is dead. Tens of thousands of Michiganders want to leave now. It's an exodus. Unfortunately, there are few buyers for their homes. NO JOBS.

No one wants to move to Michigan. Can you blame them?

No business wants to move to Michigan. Can you blame them?

No retirees want to move to Michigan. Can you blame them?

The economy of Michigan has been ignored by Michigan politicians for decades. All the warning signs were there since the 1970's. The over concentration of jobs related to auto manufacturing. The political decisions made for votes and money from the big unions and corporate boards.

Now, business avoids the state because of the huge union legacy. They don't want to deal with the nonsense. Michigan politics haven't changed one bit. Same vote buying of big state employee unions and auto unions. Same vote buying in Detroit for social programs and huge waste of taxpayer money.

No, the only way Michigan comes back is to hit rock bottom first. Michigan is a social experiment gone bad. Pay welfare for no work. Pay unions way more than they're worth and watch business leave in droves. They simply can't compete in Michigan.

Now it is too late. Michigan has a bad reputation. There is a reason the Rust Belt will not come back. The prevailing notion that business and capitalism is EVIL. This is the legacy union-think so common in the northern EX-manufacturing areas. Well, manufacturing jobs are now going elsewhere in this country where they are appreciated. The south and west get all the new plants. Just yesterday, Isuzu bought thousands of acres of land in Alabama for a new truck manufacturing plant.

I don't think light rail is a great need in Michigan right now...
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Old 04-09-2007, 03:03 PM
 
146 posts, read 641,298 times
Reputation: 63
Default Free Ipods=Da Vinci Magnets?

I can assume you fellows don’t subscribe to Reaganomics.
The last thing Michigan needs to do is keep shoveling into the trough,
hoping the government does what’s right with our money. -No thanks.
The pork barrel in this state is already busting at the seams.
Interesting you use Grand Rapids as your example considering every progressive, positive thing that has happened to this city has come as a result of individual investment, not some ‘it takes a village’ philosophy of higher taxes.
With exception to light rail, which we definitely need, I’d be interested to hear specifically where you feel Grand Rapids is falling short. Particularly in regard to your list. Transit, Culture, Urban Centers, Quality of Life?
Bottom line,
I'm fine with what we pay now but until we get some accountability
no mas.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Midwest
1,903 posts, read 7,905,028 times
Reputation: 474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsnkali View Post
There is no money. Michigan is flat broke. Real estate is dead. Tens of thousands of Michiganders want to leave now. It's an exodus. Unfortunately, there are few buyers for their homes. NO JOBS.

No one wants to move to Michigan. Can you blame them?

No business wants to move to Michigan. Can you blame them?

No retirees want to move to Michigan. Can you blame them?

The economy of Michigan has been ignored by Michigan politicians for decades. All the warning signs were there since the 1970's. The over concentration of jobs related to auto manufacturing. The political decisions made for votes and money from the big unions and corporate boards.

Now, business avoids the state because of the huge union legacy. They don't want to deal with the nonsense. Michigan politics haven't changed one bit. Same vote buying of big state employee unions and auto unions. Same vote buying in Detroit for social programs and huge waste of taxpayer money.

No, the only way Michigan comes back is to hit rock bottom first. Michigan is a social experiment gone bad. Pay welfare for no work. Pay unions way more than they're worth and watch business leave in droves. They simply can't compete in Michigan.

Now it is too late. Michigan has a bad reputation. There is a reason the Rust Belt will not come back. The prevailing notion that business and capitalism is EVIL. This is the legacy union-think so common in the northern EX-manufacturing areas. Well, manufacturing jobs are now going elsewhere in this country where they are appreciated. The south and west get all the new plants. Just yesterday, Isuzu bought thousands of acres of land in Alabama for a new truck manufacturing plant.

I don't think light rail is a great need in Michigan right now...
Blue State politics = OWNED by union interests

Only the death, not just the death throes, of the unions is sufficient enough to change the political situation and restimulate the economy.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:40 PM
 
54 posts, read 259,496 times
Reputation: 32
Its not solely private investment, but public-private partnerships that have highlighted the most publicized developments in Grand Rapids. That's the right way to go.

Michigan's panacea is low taxes, therein lies the problem. Michigan's tax burden, last I heard, ranks pretty low. I can make the link that tax burden has no sole link to prosperity and economic growth. Cut pork, fine, but realize cutting taxes isn't going to work as intended. People need to realize that growth comes with infrastructure that only the state has the means to provide. Cut pork while keeping taxes at the same rate.

If the low tax philosophy applied to Michigan, then Michigan should be a high earning state. The knowledge based worker has more on his plate then taxes and pork.

I don't subscribe to philosophy. I subscribe to the notion that it takes more than just one facet to bring greater economic stability and growth.

Its pretty sad, economists are pegging Michigan's economy to stabilize in a decade at the earliest. In the 10 years, Michigan will have the lowest tax rate, no pork, and yet -- still be in the **** hole. If you cut leg Muscle how can you run?
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,870,356 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabbit View Post
I can assume you fellows don’t subscribe to Reaganomics.
The last thing Michigan needs to do is keep shoveling into the trough,
hoping the government does what’s right with our money. -No thanks.
The pork barrel in this state is already busting at the seams.
Interesting you use Grand Rapids as your example considering every progressive, positive thing that has happened to this city has come as a result of individual investment, not some ‘it takes a village’ philosophy of higher taxes.
With exception to light rail, which we definitely need, I’d be interested to hear specifically where you feel Grand Rapids is falling short. Particularly in regard to your list. Transit, Culture, Urban Centers, Quality of Life?
Bottom line,
I'm fine with what we pay now but until we get some accountability
no mas.
I would say much of the negative that has been happening lately in the Grand Rapids area (closing parks, closing pools, shutting down recreation programs, cutting police forces, stripping away money from ethnic festivals. cutting back on snow-plowing and street maintenance) are some definite things that are going to bite us in the long run and make Grand Rapids less attractive. Remember, the GR area is doing "OK", it's not doing fantastic, and population growth has slowed to a trickle.

Are we cutting off our nose to spite our face?

Plus, Michigan has cut literally BILLIONS out of its budget from 2000 - 2006, especially in revenue sharing that goes to local communities, while the population in Michigan in that time period has actually grown by about 150,000 (despite people leaving).

I can follow Reagan and Keynes that if taxes are HIGH, they should be cut and economic development will result. Our taxes are not high, they are at the national average. Cuts now start to do long-term damage.

Despite examples of silliness like giving kids IPOD's, generally speaking our state is strapped. And if some (not all) businesses are choosing not to do business in Michigan, tax structure is probably not the overriding objection. Even if someone were to claim a high-tax structure, there are countless incentive deals being thrown around that make it more than competitive to do business here. It's probably that they don't want to do business with a bunch of "self-defeating pessimistic city leaders (losers)". Companies want to associate with winners.
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Old 04-09-2007, 06:57 PM
 
54 posts, read 259,496 times
Reputation: 32
Perception is everything. It's getting depressing watching the news reports. That's all it takes to tank growth. Michigan's is in need of Prozac and therapy.

Minus all that Michigan represents an incredible opportunity.
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