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I bet we see people that never considered the military try to join as jobs dry up, Moderator cut: This forum is not to be used for political arguments and/or discussions.
Not seeing nearly as many commercials nor am I getting nearly as many emails/letters asking me to reconsider as the past years.
As for those who fall for the $25k bonuses, $25k over 5yrs is a joke . If someone thinks the military is going to be their friend and give them something for free...joke is on them.
Though, the post 9/11 GI Bill is excellent & finally a real way to go back to school!
It also depends on where you're from. For instance, I noticed the above poster is from NY, New England being one of the lowest regions represented in the Military. Over in San Antonio, people were joining in such numbers even before the recession that recruiter would show you the door if they asked why you wanted to join and they didn't like the answer you gave (i.e. college). I also noticed that exposure to the services plays into it alot. For example, in the down east area of NC where Camp Lejeune is, most people join the Marines. In Goldsboro, NC where Seymour Johnson AFB is, most people join the AF, in Fayetteville, most people join the Army. Some would say the south is over represented in the military due to culture, but honestly, i think it's just b/c that's where most of the bases are. Every state in the south has major military installation.
I think, with the loss of the draft, alot of younger people no longer have any direct exposure to the military or military personnel and as such don't have as much appreciation or respect for them.
I think military representation varies greatly even within many states.
Being from Houston, and attending college in East Texas, I am very familiar with the military perception is in Texas, at least primarily my part. Texas is seen as a "pro-military" state, but only in certain parts.
As Houston has a much better economy, way more job options, (a major port, a world-renowned collection of hospitals, oil and gas industry, etc.) and isn't close to any major military bases, there is a noticeable obliviousness to the military. I've talked frequently to kids from rougher parts of Houston (I frequent the Houston Greyhound station), and though they keep the military as an option for them, I know most are trying tooth and nail to avoid the service. Also, in major cities, there are more education options for youth, some of which are relatively accessible and inexpensive, the most notable being community college, and state-funded technical training schools.
There are also big-city police departments which recruit aggressively, too. In most respects, they compete head-to-head with the Army for people to serve. HPD Recruitment HPD's recruitment site rivals goarmy.com. They even at one point offered an bonus to sign up once you completed training (12K) Dallas PD offered 10K, so Houston upped it to 12. That's almost like the Army. BTW, much respect for Houston cops.
A lot of my college friends (many from rough parts of Dallas and Houston) are cognizant they are targets for military service and are trying their best to pursue other options.
I can honestly tell you that many kids (some even offspring of retired military personnel) have been advised against join the military. For instance, I know an individual whose dad is a 1SG at a base somewhere in GA (I think McPherson) who tells me his dad is explicitly against him enlisting. He has no desire to do so anyway.
I had an NCO I served under in my unit who was later assigned to USAREC in the Dallas area, and according to her, the response she got from people was horrible. (I chatted with her about it recently on Facebook)
San Antonio and El Paso are the only major cities in Texas where the military comes into contact with civilians on a daily basis. Killeen, maybe, but wouldn't qualify as "major city."
I guess a similar parallel could be brought up with California as So Cal hosts the majority of California's bases and California's high-tech work force exists in the north.
Last edited by Alphalogica; 07-02-2010 at 09:17 PM..
The overall point of my post was that despite the economy being f--ed up, I'm sure most, if not damn near all kids who are "vulnerable" to military service know they are a target, look at other options and try their best (or at least make a reasonable attempt) to make due without resorting to the military.
And a variety of other options do exist if one is willing to look/work hard enough. Even with our economy, this is America.
As my username implies I was only born in 1987 ... very few in my generation respect the military. Only 3 out of 450 kids in my graduating class went into the military (2 Marines, 1 Army).
I recall reading somewhere that the USMC did not accept draftees period until very late in the Vietnam War, and even then because they were forced too. IIRC the Defense Department also had a hard time getting them to take draftees in WWII as well.
The Marines drafted in Jan of 66 ( certainly not very late in the Vietnam war )
The Navy drafted in October 65 . ( I was one of them )
Branches did not accept draftees unless they were not meeting their quota and needed extra men.
Even when the economy is bad, I think the OP is making a mistake to assume the the military has an unlimited supply of fantastic jobs and are just waiting for recruits. The military is cutting back the number of personnel it needs too. Many people can't pass the physical to even get their foot in the door.
If anything, I will bet that the noticeable change in military numbers are the ones who are already IN the military and have opted to reenlist because there aren't a lot of jobs in the civilian world.
For now I will avoid the topic of motive among submariners on their first enlistment.
However speaking of sailors who re-enlisted, who were at their 6-year point or beyond; the primary rationale for re-enlisting was the money.
For many years, often I heard the discussion of how much we would be paid as a bonus for re-enlisting. I was among that discussion myself.
I got out at my 6 year point, I hated the Navy. I went to college. But after exhausting my GI-bill and looking at the job market, I re-enlisted for the economics.
Any sailor re-enlisting after 6 years, is only talking about, is only thinking about the 'SRB', the Re-Enlistment Bonus. During my career the highest SRB I saw was $60k for 4 years, however in 2001 when I retired they bumped the SRB cap to $90k. I know men who re-enlisted in 2001 who were given $90k SRB for re-enlisting.
Later in our careers at the 10-year point, the discussions turn. They become pension discussions. 10 years is the half-way point to a pension.
At the 10-year point, it becomes a 'crisis' for a sailor.
"Am I a lifer?"
"Can I honestly do this horrible job and live this lifestyle that I hate long enough to finish and get my pension??
I do not know what you 'want' from your military. But their conversations, their discussions, and honestly what is in their minds after 6-years is cash, and after 10-years is the pension.
I did 20+ years in the Navy. 14 were in the Submarine Service averaging 7-months of each year under. Submariners are very professional.
Patriotism only gets you into uniform. Long deployments, long periods of isolation, and the need to stay focused on job performance make patriotism wear thin.
Most of the time I was in-port was spent in rotating shift-work. Very few years was I allowed to take my annual leave.
When the discussion is between patriotism and professionalism, patriotism will not keep subs underwater. Only professionals can do the job.
Must be the new Navy... I re-upped 4 or 5 times and never got a SRB once
I understand, my step-father served during WWII and was paid $17.50 / month.
I enlisted much later, in 1976 and retired in 2001.
The Reagon years were nice with large pay increases each year.
$17.50 a month? Hell, Union soldiers during the Civil War made around $13.00 a month.
I would have been pissed at only getting a $4.50 raise in around 75 years time.
I would think it would have been more then that.
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