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I briefly glanced at the article...
I was drafted and then served 22+ years of continuous active duty...
I am not into bashing my country...
I would hope that everyone understands that loving one's country doesn't preclude assessing, criticizing, and suggesting better possibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
well, sorry to say, even though I believe the article is well written, the author of the article doesn't really have any original thoughts. I'd say, if he/she cannot be original, then be authentic at least. My vote: not impressed.
Yikes! I am sick and tired of articles like this (and there are many just like these).
While it's true that experts in a field may always hope for original thoughts, I think it's also true that for many people, especially for the general public, it's sometimes also worthwhile to have existing information gathered and presented by a good writer.
my service was 20 years active duty and two years of active reserve. Korean war veteran (1951)
I have little regard for the draft dodgers and the "peace" movement over the years. As often said I'd rather
fight our enemies 'over there' then in our back yard........... I will always respect military personal
weather they served on the line or behind the line. They do not choose where they are stationed........
Right or wrong, my country................... MAGA
Generally agree. Problem is determining who are enemies are over there. I volunteered but it was more of a decision to simply join the Marines and the adventure of the whole experience. Passage into manhood more than anything else I guess.
I don’t ever recall any company grade officer or senior enlisted pontificating about saving the Vietnamese or the world from the evils of Communism. Just didn’t happen. Orders were given and carried out. Served for the honor of the Marine Corps. Nothing else. Let the politicians do the propaganda stuff.
I would hope that everyone understands that loving one's country doesn't preclude assessing, criticizing, and suggesting better possibilities.
While it's true that experts in a field may always hope for original thoughts, I think it's also true that for many people, especially for the general public, it's sometimes also worthwhile to have existing information gathered and presented by a good writer.
which is why I also posted this
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981
This article does make several great points, but it may be perpetuating stigma associated with military supporters without knowing it. Just horrible. Lose the bias, then we can talk about the real issues. But noooooooooo, he/she has to go on and on and on about why supporting the troops is wrong.
Yikes! I am sick and tired of articles like this (and there are many just like these).
Saying they feel "betrayed" by you is just how they rationalize and justify their own lives. It's on them. You didn't "betray" anybody. Really, why should they feel betrayed? They were not being betrayed but insisted on saying that because it's how the group enforces its psychological control and make it "us."
They "feel betrayed" (or choose to feel that way) and that means they have no idea and wanted to have no idea of just what the heck they were doing there.
You are right in that these things rarely involve fighting for freedom, apple pie, baseball, etc etc. They fight because they're there! The movie The Bridges at Toko Ri, while not considered an anti-war movie a la the 1960's/70's does not sugar coat the whole war ideal as part of larger heroics. The William Holden character evens says almost exactly what you said. You fight because you're there. Then the survivors go around retconning their lives and events with their hands out wanting emotional "tips" from the world.
I guess the true tragedy of the American military is that there is a big gap between the military culture and civilian culture, although military service members were once civilians themselves.
My family members and friends have all told me that they didn't fight for the politicians, politics, they fought for the men standing next to them. I, as a civilian, will never understand it. So I choose to not judge their decision to re-enlist during war. It is quite honorable and heroic, actually. (Definitely not saying I support American foreign policy.)
My experience with the combat troops is that they DO NOT share their stories with the civilians. I guess it is like teaching a blind person about color, if you haven't been there, you would never really understand it. I just decided to let them be. Being supportive means being a listener and being there for them. It is not a hard thing to do of being a compassionate human being. Being supportive has nothing to do with supporting what politicians do.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 08-25-2019 at 11:59 AM..
I don't know if this is to everyone's taste, but I thought it was interesting (and I like the writer James Fallows). It's a long wide-ranging piece in The Atlantic from a few years back about attitudes and realities.
The Tragedy of the American Military
The American public and its political leadership will do anything for the military except take it seriously. The result is a chickenhawk nation in which careless spending and strategic folly combine to lure America into endless wars it can’t win.
Ours is the best-equipped fighting force in history, and it is incomparably the most expensive ... Yet repeatedly this force has been defeated by less modern, worse-equipped, barely funded foes. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...litary/383516/
i agree, we have managed to spend trillions building weapons to fight untrained armies with AK47 rifles and RPGs and we still can't win. How many spare aircraft engines for airplanes never built are there. in Afghanistan we brought in Tadzik mercenaries who terrorized and murdered the Pashtun majority. If we leave those mercenaries will be back in Tadzikistan and whatever Pashtuns tried to modernize will feel the wrath of the Taliban. it will be a bloodbath.
i agree, we have managed to spend trillions building weapons to fight untrained armies with AK47 rifles and RPGs and we still can't win. How many spare aircraft engines for airplanes never built are there. in Afghanistan we brought in Tadzik mercenaries who terrorized and murdered the Pashtun majority. If we leave those mercenaries will be back in Tadzikistan and whatever Pashtuns tried to modernize will feel the wrath of the Taliban. it will be a bloodbath.
This is perhaps one of the points I do agree with the author.
Who is the enemy? What are the objectives? Is counterinsurgency meant to achieve the goal of counterterrorism (beating al Qaeda), state-building (bringing stability and democracy to Afghanistan), or both? What would "victory" in Afghanistan even look like? And how will the war stay won, after the United States leaves?
I would hope that everyone understands that loving one's country doesn't preclude assessing, criticizing, and suggesting better possibilities.
Yes I fully assessed the situation when I was drafted. I have met a lot of people who love their country. Two of them where my parents who migrated from different countries to the United States to flee their place of birth. They became American Citizens.
I took the oath seriously and I fulfilled my two year mandatory obligation... I decided to remain in the military for 20 more years.
I have no doubt you have your own personal possibilities. This is a different time. There is no "Drafting" in the U.S. Military currently in the United States. To a degree, I am happy about that... But I will never be sorry for my decision to continue in my career in the U.S. Army...
While it's true that experts in a field may always hope for original thoughts, I think it's also true that for many people, especially for the general public, it's sometimes also worthwhile to have existing information gathered and presented by a good writer.
You mean, in a military fashion, someone who can't find their ass with both hands...
During the 1970's and 80's I asked every combat vet I knew who was in combat from WWII to Vietnam, "If you knew before you went, what combat was really going to be like, and you had a choice to go or not to go, would you have gone?" Every single person I asked that question to, including a Marine who did three tours in Vietnam, and my Dad who was an infantry combat Sergeant in WWII, said no.
The brilliance of Nixon was that by abolishing the draft he ended the anti-war movement, because self interest was the motivation for most of the politicians who promoted the war, as well as most of the protestors who fought against it. That's why there's no anti war movement today. And most who thank the military for their service are just thankful that they and their families are in the 99% of the population who weren't in the military in the last 40 years.
During the 1970's and 80's I asked every combat vet I knew who was in combat from WWII to Vietnam, "If you knew before you went, what it was really going to be like, and you had a choice to go or not to go, would you have gone?" Every single person I asked that question to, including a Marine who did three tours in Vietnam, and my Dad who was an infantry combat Sergeant in WWII, said no.
The brilliance of Nixon was that by abolishing the draft he ended the anti-war movement, because self interest was the motivation for the politicians who promoted the war, as well as the protestors who fought against it. That's why there's no anti war movement today. And most who thank the military for their service are just thankful that they and their families are in the 99% of the population who weren't in the military in the last 40 years.
Which is why I don't say thank you for your service to every vet anymore because of the bold. (Many truly believe that. )But truth be told, many combat troops I personally know actually do say "Thank you for your support" to the civilians who thank them for their services. They don't over analyze it and they know civilians meant well. But for the people who don't believe our Thank you is genuine, then maybe they don't really deserve a thank you.
I just volunteer at a VA hospital to honor the memories of the man I lost in ME. I lost my first true love, and three childhood friends. Birthdays, anniversaries, and holidays are still difficult. People don't know why many say "I support the troops." They have no clue.
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