North Carolina military mom arrives at Fort Benning with kids
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What planet do you live on where there is a safety net that protects you from reality? Maybe she wasn't smart enough to read and understand? Oh man. What a crock. How's that ivory tower view?
That's some over-the-top BS you posted right there.
The Army owns this problem and will solve it. We don't need the president's help.
Now for your assumption about recruiters. Recuiters EXPLAIN IRR. The people who join have the IRR read to them at least three times, and they SIGN UP FOR IT (three or four times). I explained IRR to hundreds of people, and was trianed over and over that if asked, "IRR means you can be recalled." Give Soldiers some credit. They know what IRR means. IF they say they don't they're playing dumb or just don't care. It isn't "fine print" it's the law.
This mom did the right thing, she reported for duty. I know that's a strange concept for some.
Oh and the military isn't even close to broken. We still have the Navy ready to do whatever is needed around the world, often within minutes of being tasked. We still have the air dominated without question. Yeah our grunts are a little tied up helping a few countries leave the 4th century -- so what.
We could still put half a million highly-trained, well-equipped ground-pounders anywhere we need to, and that right there isn't broken. It ain't pretty, but war ain't supposed to be. If it was, we'd have far too much of it.
If anything is "broken" it is the culture of service that's faded away and the total lack of individual responsibility-- and all citizens are also at fault for that. Dynamic blame shifting to a president you don't like isn't going to help one single recalled IRR soldier.
or you can still think "us po' soldiers ain't smart 'nuff to know nothin' 'bout signing up no contracts"
Standing ovation!!
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-13-2012 at 04:35 PM..
IRR is also briefed during separation briefings. at least it was when i went through mine. as badly as i do feel for the woman, she knew there was a possibility that she would be called up.
IRR is explained to you at the MEPS when you sign your contract, it's not something that is hidden deep inside the fine print like applying for a credit card or loan.
Common knowledge that a recruiter that cannot meet their assigned quota is jeopardizing their future career in the military. Desperate people will do desperate things to meet their quota, include lying. You do remember the news of illegal tactics used by recruiters during the worst days of the Iraq war don't you?
Keep in mind that recruiters aren't the only folks to talk to recruits. Recruits sign documents in front of 3-4 other people down the line BEFORE they ship stating that the recruiter did NOT promise anything NOT in writing and that they understand that if it isn't in writing, then it's BS. When you get to Boot, you sign ANOTHER document that states the same thing.
Not everyone is a blameless victim. Most claiming to be are just scumbags out to avoid personal responsibility.
I liked the post about how someone else will have to take this woman's place. I'd be interested in what hardships THAT person has to face because this one avoided her duty.
Nor did say he did, but it is clear the his gross mismanagement of the war and abuse of those in uniform has broken our military, especially the 'ground forces' branches, and created the environment where people are recalled 4 years after separation as a routine matter of course.
Hmmm... my dh enlisted in 1994. Got out in 1997. Before he re-enlisted in 1999, he got several letters from and about the IRR, reiterating that he was subject to recall until his 8 years were up.
Wonder how W managed to pass those laws BEFORE running for president in 1999. And they call this man a moron? How many others have single handedly passed laws affecting the IRR BEFORE even running for office?
Don't make posts about things that you have NO IDEA about... you've heard the phrase... "It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"? Switch out "open your mouth" to "post in a public forum board" and what do we find? Posters like a couple in this thread.
Nor did say he did, but it is clear the his gross mismanagement of the war and abuse of those in uniform has broken our military, especially the 'ground forces' branches, and created the environment where people are recalled 4 years after separation as a routine matter of course.
Hmmm... my dh enlisted in 1994. Got out in 1997. Before he re-enlisted in 1999, he got several letters from and about the IRR, reiterating that he was subject to recall until his 8 years were up.
Wonder how W managed to pass those laws BEFORE running for president in 1999. And they call this man a moron? How many others have single handedly passed laws affecting the IRR BEFORE even running for office?
Don't make posts about things that you have NO IDEA about... you've heard the phrase... "It's better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"? Switch out "open your mouth" to "post in a public forum board" and what do we find? Posters like a couple in this thread.
Moderator cut: We do not need the name calling and politics in this forum
ash didn't say anything that contradicted your info here; ash just tied it to a person in a way that you didn't like–and honestly, it wasn't a very fair accusation, because others are just as responsible as bush. i went through the same irr briefings as your husband, and i can promise you that there are still idiots out there that try to claim ignorance when they get recalled. so, yes, i understand that the military covers its bases as much as it legally needs to. that, however is the minimum expectation, not the exemplary diligence of an overachiever.
but i also understand that the military cuts corners wherever possible, and that they will sign someone on waivers when they don't meet the prereqs, and the recruiters tell applicants to hush hush about physical problems, etc.
in my mind, this comes down to an issue of her not planning well or intelligently. but honestly, i don't know the whole story, so i don't place much weight in the judgments made on a news article.
aaron out.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-13-2012 at 04:28 PM..
You have to think about the common sense of the matter a little. She was formerly honorably discharged due to Family Hardship. She didn't have a choice about being put into the IRR though. Any Service Member who does under 8yrs in the Army (not familiar with other Services) will be put into the IRR for the remainder of the 8yrs. I'm sure there are exceptions, but I guess being discharged due to Family Hardship isn't one of them. "Yes, we know that you had a problem getting care for your kids when it was required, but we're sure you should be able to do it now after staying home all this time with no requirements of yourself to the Army." If the IRR program was more organized; it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they shouldn't bring in a Soldier who was discharged due to Family Hardship! Yes, everyone knows what they get into when you sign a contract; heck joining the Army, you better have more then just a vague idea. I am a single-parent myself and just got back from deployment in December. Fortunately, I did have a halfway decent Family Care Plan. My girls went to my ex-husband. Just to have a piece of mind that I would have no problems getting them back; I had to have my ex sign a Court Ordered Agreement that the girls came back to me immediately following the first break from school that they got. Fortunately, I didn't have to worry about any problems from him because as he is in the Army Reserves; he was mobilized to FT Sill this past summer. My girls are now with my Mom.
Speaking from direct experience. Most Army single parents problems are not with deploying, but who to leave their children with when they do deploy. I was lucky to be able to leave my children with their Dad, and later on my Mom. A lot of Single Parents do not have anyone else to rely on; not even family. A SSG who worked with me while I was in Iraq had to be chaptered out while deployed because her Family Care Plan felled through. She couldn't rely on family members, so she left them with who she thought to be a good friend. She found out after the fact that her ex-husband, after being released from jail, consorted with her friend who had her kids. Both of them went to her bank, him using a copy of their marriage license (guess he still had it), and her using a Power of Attorney. They totally depleted her bank accounts, and he ran off with the children. It took her over a month to get out of Iraq, and her Command didn't see that as a good enough reason to let her go back home to take care of business, so she had to "let them" Chapter her out so she could get home and take care of her business. I know that this is overly long, but there is two sides to every story. And before anyone ask about her family. On a previous deployment she did have her kids with her family, and they hemorrhaged money out her (over $2500/mth), and if she refused to give it...threatened to pass her kids to someone else. With all this money that the Army is putting into the War, and recruiting. They need to put some aside to Work on programs for Single Soldiers to help find reliable and trust worthy people that Soldier's who have no other resources can give their children to. I don't know if they should work it like a Foster Care program (Soldier can give the BAH to the person), and the Army or the Command can regulate the people that Single Soldier's have to leave their children with. If something like this was to be implemented, it would save so much money on having to send people back from the fight prematurely, or put them out the Army period. This is the same thing for Single Soldier's back in the rear. Going to the field and on missions longer then a day all require trying to hunt someone down that you trust to give a young child a bath! More time needs to be given to find acceptable Family Care Providers (only 30days with no more then a 30day extension). That may be enough time to to find someone in the states...barely. Imagine being given 30days to find someone to watch yours kids in a foreign country with a base population of 500?
Just another thought on the subject.
If anyone thinks for a second that this woman was clueless about her status in IRR...
She knew EXACTLY.
EVERY soldier knows about IRR. It's embedded in you when you join. You talk about it every time someone gets out. You talk about the people who were called back in. It's embedded in you when you leave & sit through the mandatory Reserve counseling & SIGN a paper stating you know about IRR.
I have direct experience with the Army & IRR.
Yeah, it sucks. And that is why the Reserves has 24 month stablization programs & they try to scare the living daylights out of you when you are outprocessing & tell you about the $$ & so on.
IRR is real. It has nailed a lot of people.
But a contract has been signed. And Uncle Sam WILL find you if he needs you & unless you can prove 110% that you have a hardship...pack your bags, you are back in the Army....
There has to be more to this story. The Army would not spend 12 months debating with this soldier if, indeed, she PROVED the hardships she is stating where the reason she could not go back to duty. If her husband travels so much & is gone so much...she could have VERY SIMPLY gotten a letter from his employer stating as such.
Again, there is more to this story.
As for her taking her kids to show up...there is a part of me that thinks she is doing what she is being asked & there is the part of me that finds it a complete "f u " to the Army & shows a lack of maturity & professionalism on her part.
Yet, I'm was so over the having to "ask" soldiers to do their job when my time was up. You SIGN up to do the job, why in the heck should I have to politely ask you to do what you agreed to?
If anyone thinks for a second that this woman was clueless about her status in IRR...
She knew EXACTLY.
EVERY soldier knows about IRR. It's embedded in you when you join. You talk about it every time someone gets out. You talk about the people who were called back in. It's embedded in you when you leave & sit through the mandatory Reserve counseling & SIGN a paper stating you know about IRR.
I have direct experience with the Army & IRR.
Yeah, it sucks. And that is why the Reserves has 24 month stablization programs & they try to scare the living daylights out of you when you are outprocessing & tell you about the $$ & so on.
IRR is real. It has nailed a lot of people.
But a contract has been signed. And Uncle Sam WILL find you if he needs you & unless you can prove 110% that you have a hardship...pack your bags, you are back in the Army....
There has to be more to this story. The Army would not spend 12 months debating with this soldier if, indeed, she PROVED the hardships she is stating where the reason she could not go back to duty. If her husband travels so much & is gone so much...she could have VERY SIMPLY gotten a letter from his employer stating as such.
Again, there is more to this story.
As for her taking her kids to show up...there is a part of me that thinks she is doing what she is being asked & there is the part of me that finds it a complete "f u " to the Army & shows a lack of maturity & professionalism on her part.
Yet, I'm was so over the having to "ask" soldiers to do their job when my time was up. You SIGN up to do the job, why in the heck should I have to politely ask you to do what you agreed to?
I agree with you 100%. But why bring her back in when the reason she was discharged in the first place was due to Family Hardship? That was just a complete waste of taxpayer dollars and Army money. $2000+ in new uniforms and gear...not counting the man hours wasted on in processing her; only to have her get right back out. The Army needs to get the IRR program more organized so that they don't waste their time with people who "can't" do the job. Yeah, kudos to her for showing up (unlike so many who don't); but she could of stayed the heck home and saved the trouble. Everyone knows as soon as the media gets involved; it's always a good outcome for the soldier. I could call the local news and say, my kids are having behavioral problems and are scared for Mommy to deploy again and don't want her to leave. If they ran with that story; I probably wouldn't even have to worry about deploying at all. What kind of Soldier would that make me though?
Lisa Pagan, of Davidson, North Carolina, reported for duty Monday morning at Fort Benning, Georgia, with her two preschool children. She had been honorably discharged from active duty at the rank of specialist nearly four years ago but was recalled as part of the Individual Ready Reserve program. She has been granted her request for a discharge, her lawyer said Monday.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 08-13-2012 at 04:59 PM..
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