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While I have accepted the fact that majority rules, Its frustrating. Working on my second masters while some don't even have a degree makes me think even with "doing better than others" that I still won't get my just due. I think most minorities with common sense know they have to put in work. I think the ones that complain are the ones that do exactly what they have to only to have the bar raised even more when they thought they "arrived"
Not trying to argue, but doesn't this apply to just about everybody? Feels that way to me, and I'm white. Life a B, and nobody is going to make it easier for you to succeed on their dime. Perhaps it's even harder if you're not a white male (in fact, I'm convinced this is true), but I think it's a universal truth that applies to almost everybody -- at least to a degree.
I bring this up not to cause additional arguments or add fuel to the fire, but because I think a lot of people out there (black/white, male/female, gay/straight....whatever) think there is some formula for success and all you have to do is follow that formula to a "T" and/or be a certain way and everything will be alright and life will be peaches. I've just found this to be untrue, and I think it's making people unnecessarily mad, and mad at the wrong people. The "Man" (or system) is to blame, and by that I mean the 1% of the 1% of the 1%, who control pretty much everything, and always will.
For example, nobody I know goes out into the world with an agenda to bring other people down. We all struggle to make it or thrive or even survive, and while we're pushing and shoving each other to get there, change rarely occurs, and it won't until the top feels the pressure to do so.
Last edited by Min-Chi-Cbus; 12-07-2016 at 10:06 AM..
Not trying to argue, but doesn't this apply to just about everybody? Feels that way to me, and I'm white. Life a B, and nobody is going to make it easier for you to succeed on their dime. Perhaps it's even harder if you're not a white male (in fact, I'm convinced this is true), but I think it's a universal truth that applies to almost everybody -- at least to a degree.
For example, nobody I know goes out into the world with an agenda to bring other people down. We all struggle to make it or thrive or even survive, and while we're pushing and shoving each other to get there, change rarely occurs, and it won't until the top feels the pressure to do so.
There is no straight line to where you want to get. I know that better than anyone. I agree with fact that everyone is trying to just survive. There are however less variables involved in the equation that the white race has to deal with. The fact that I actually opened up a thread about how the environment maybe in regards to how black males are treated says something. White people/caucasians never have to worry about how they will be treated in any city work wise. They may not get the job but at least the notion isn't because of factors that can't be controlled like the skin color or because of preconceived stereotypes that may be placed on their race. I'm over the race and color issues but I do things that are peculiar before going into job interviews. I like to speak to the hiring manager directly, I never like to deal with the HR. You find out a lot just conversation especially prejudices and you let them know through tone that yes you are a person of color. I want to to know the last name of the person I'm interviewing. Is it a white person or asian. Another thing that people don't realize is racism/prejudice is directed at blacks not just from whites. There are other things that I do that are not worth mentioning but I'll say the stressors involved even before going to a interview are present and this is a guy that has degrees.
I have been in interviews where I know that I am the most qualified but still no cigar. a lot of it has to do with EEOP but I should also remind you that that there is a LAW that say that an organization must have a percentage of minority workers. Think about that for a second, without that law I don't think black people would get a lot of jobs. The truth is caucasians look out for each other which I understand, I would too but things are kind of skewed more than they should be.
"Nobody I know goes out into the world with an agenda to bring other people down". I kinda of smirked reading this. You are right, no one person does this but Socioeconomic classes do that, school systems do that (St.Paul)...yea I know. Systems put into place do that and though it is not the main objective, that is what happens. LOOK I don't everything not the smarted either. You can tell me, BUT you NEVER tell me what I'm seeing.
I'm not mad anyone, say what you gotta this is a conversation not argument. I'm open BRO so say what you think is incidiary Its all good I respect your point of view.
I have been in interviews where I know that I am the most qualified but still no cigar. a lot of it has to do with EEOP but I should also remind you that that there is a LAW that say that an organization must have a percentage of minority workers. Think about that for a second, without that law I don't think black people would get a lot of jobs. The truth is caucasians look out for each other which I understand, I would too but things are kind of skewed more than they should be.
No, there isn't. This is a common misunderstanding but all race based quotas are illegal whether they discriminate against or in favor of a minority. Employers are allowed to measure protected classes in their workforce but they are not permitted to establish quotas.
I'm not sure if there's an ignorance here about how to read statistics, but I reiterate my BOLDED passage above:
"But researchers at the Metropolitan Council recently analyzed the Census data in a different way, and dispelled much of that myth: Even after controlling for certain economic and demographic factors—such as income, immigration status, and length of time in the Twin Cities—a white person living in the area would still still be more likely to have a job, own a home, and earn more money than a black person living in the area"
In other words, an educated black man in Minnesota is less likely to own a home, earn as much money, etc as a similarly educated white man. The blather about the significant population of poor and/or under-educated blacks, while true, is in no way germane to the discussion of equally educated but unequally compensated populations whose sole significant demographic difference is race/ethnicity.
shawnj1215 I will rely on your education to correctly read and interpret the statistics I have presented to you. The person who will pay if there is structural racism in the Twin Cities is you, not some of the people you are discussing this topic with. As you said, you have loans to pay (and even before that, you said you were educated...which is pretty much saying you have loans to pay ). I am not trying to dissuade you from coming here - on the contrary I think more educated blacks have a vital and necessary role in building a vital black middle class here. But the Panglossian view you are getting on structural racism is in no way supported by and in many ways strongly disproven by the best available statistical evidence.
I'm not sure if you're incapable of seeing the obvious holes in their methodology, or if this just it fits your preconceived narrative so you accept it without question?
They completely fail to account for proximity, quantity & quality of jobs, as well as quality of education & career paths as they relate to employment & earnings.
A White kid 18 y/o from the suburbs will have dozens, perhaps hundreds of employment options within close proximity to their homes, while a Black 18 y/o from North Mpls will have far, far less. Proximity is very important, especially to younger workers & lower wage earners.
That kid in the suburbs can get any number of manufacturing jobs, service industry jobs, etc. that will all pay $15+ to start, while the kid in North Mpls, if they can even find a job, will likely find fast food work that pay minimum wage. That's another obvious factor they failed to account for.
Then there's quality of education, which is not apples to apples as their conclusion might have you believe. They can say two 18 y/o's with HS diplomas should earn the same but that's not reality. In reality diplomas from Minnesota Transitions HS or Gordon Parks Alternative HS are not equal to diplomas from Woodbury HS or Minnetonka HS. Employers understand this.
As people move on to college, Blacks are over-represented in the lowest paying degrees such as social work, education, African American studies, et al. Again the data is comparing apples to oranges and the authors either don't realize their obvious omissions, or they choose to omit them.
These are just obvious examples off the top of my head, there are more if one chooses to look for them.
Then you have the conflicting data that shows when adjusted for demographics that Hispanics have HIGHER employment rates than Whites & Asians have equal employment rates. Same with hourly wages, which show, when adjusted for similar demographics that Whites & Asians earn the same, with Hispanics just barely behind them. Home ownership rates are more of the same with Whites & Asians being equal. One commonality is that Blacks lag behind in all categories and far from proving racism, it creates far more questions than it delivers answers.
Lastly there's the actual statements such as the following that show there are no conclusions to be had:
- In fact, the overall demographic profile of the region's Black residents does differ from that of White residents and in ways that may affect outcomes like employment, income and homeownership"
- Lastly, reflecting a higher share of recent immigrants, Black residents are more likely to self-report speaking English "less than very well" compared to White residents, whereas White residents who report lower English skills show considerably lower employment, income, and homeownership than White residents who speak English "very well"
- "The data, however, don't fully explain what causes the disparities, said Minnesota State Demographer Susan Brower.
- "That's not to say there's not racial discrimination going on. I think it's very likely that there is," she said. "But this report doesn't have the data it needs to answer that specific of a question."
MN BARELY went for Hillary...which says a ton. MN should be solidly blue. The race was extremely close, which isn't surprising to me.
The Democrats abandoned their bread & butter, which is why they lost. When farmers start voting Trump, they're lost the F in DFL. When union members & blue collar workers start voting Trump they've lost the L in DFL. Hell, even teachers are abandoning the Democratic Party, with 1 in 3 NEA members, the single largest labor union in the country, reporting they voted Trump. These are all people who voted for Obama in 08' & 12', but went Trump in 16'. Hard to believe they all became racist in the past 4 years. The truth is the Democrats ran an absolutely horrible candidate & alienated their base. It wasn't racism, it was p*ss-poor strategy.
The Democrats abandoned their bread & butter, which is why they lost. When farmers start voting Trump, they're lost the F in DFL. When union members & blue collar workers start voting Trump they've lost the L in DFL. Hell, even teachers are abandoning the Democratic Party, with 1 in 3 NEA members, the single largest labor union in the country, reporting they voted Trump. These are all people who voted for Obama in 08' & 12', but went Trump in 16'. Hard to believe they all became racist in the past 4 years. The truth is the Democrats ran an absolutely horrible candidate & alienated their base. It wasn't racism, it was p*ss-poor strategy.
Yep. And actually identity politicking was a large reason too. People are sick of be labeled as pat of an interest group.
No, there isn't. This is a common misunderstanding but all race based quotas are illegal whether they discriminate against or in favor of a minority. Employers are allowed to measure protected classes in their workforce but they are not permitted to establish quotas.
Thedosius acknowledged that he isn't really qualified to speak on how it is to be black in the Twin Cities because...he's not black. Very simple concept. As a white person, you have NO IDEA what it's like to face institutional racism because the system is built to benefit you. You telling black people how life will be in the Twin Cities is like a blind person telling someone how life is with sight. Does not compute. That you fail to realize this speaks to your ignorance and privilege.
I absolutely don't know what it's like to experience "institutionalized racism" in the Twin Cities, if that even exists.
I do have extensive experience living among the poor Black community in the TC, being a minority & experiencing "institutionalized racism" in places other than the TC.
I went to a predominantly poor, Black school growing up & was one of only three White boys in my grade. It gave me plenty of opportunity to soak in the poor, Black urban experience in Minneapolis. I minored in African American studies and was the only White in the program. If I didn't get enough of it in grade school, being part of this program gave me the opportunity to be the only one not of the same color & feel like I was on the outside looking in. I lived in the Caribbean & Central America for 20 years. I experienced all sorts of interesting dynamics in those systems meant to benefit Black & Hispanic people. My wife is Black & my kids are mixed, so I'm keenly aware of how they're treated. I may not experience "institutional racism" here in the TC, but I've got enough practical experience living among Black people & being a minority myself to offer up a decent opinion.
I absolutely don't know what it's like to experience "institutionalized racism" in the Twin Cities, if that even exists.
I do have extensive experience living among the poor Black community in the TC, being a minority & experiencing "institutionalized racism" in places other than the TC.
I went to a predominantly poor, Black school growing up & was one of only three White boys in my grade. It gave me plenty of opportunity to soak in the poor, Black urban experience in Minneapolis. I minored in African American studies and was the only White in the program. If I didn't get enough of it in grade school, being part of this program gave me the opportunity to be the only one not of the same color & feel like I was on the outside looking in. I lived in the Caribbean & Central America for 20 years. I experienced all sorts of interesting dynamics in those systems meant to benefit Black & Hispanic people. My wife is Black & my kids are mixed, so I'm keenly aware of how they're treated. I may not experience "institutional racism" here in the TC, but I've got enough practical experience living among Black people & being a minority myself to offer up a decent opinion.
OK Mason3000. I think that is awesome BTW. Thankyou for your commentary.
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). I am not trying to dissuade you from coming here - on the contrary I think more educated blacks have a vital and necessary role in building a vital black middle class here. But the Panglossian view you are getting on structural racism is in no way supported by and in many ways strongly disproven by the best available statistical evidence.
